Did Jesus say he was God???

[waitasec]

What you are assuming is that deviancy consists of stealing, lying, killing and adhering to double standards, but drug use, alcohol consumption, foul language as well as open sexuality are acceptable?

and over eating, binge shopping and anorexia aren't healthy either... why didn't you mention those things?
drugs and alcohol consumption, foul language and even open sexuality may not work for you...so don't do it. who are you to judge? if no one is hurting anyone else by doing these things what is the problem? i think you are more concerned about the symptoms of imperfection then you are about the cause of the imperfection... no one is perfect... in fact, like it or not, judging others is a sign of imperfection in and of itself. it is a symptom of control...

The only people who do the infringing are the ones who don't accept the majority's standards of conduct. You keep arguing on behalf of the deviant. Why?

the majority standard of conduct is to treat others as you would like to be treated...with respect. that is why personal beliefs and personal freedoms do not go hand in hand...what i think we are missing here is the element of responsibility that does goes hand in hand with freedom...a sense of responsibility to respecting others. it's really not that hard to get. telling others what is considered to be moral based on personal belief, that is after all a personal belief, as one who appoints themselves to sit in the seat of judgement of others is just a sign of disrespect...no one wants to be dominated by another human being...who holds just as much value as the next person...

 

[waitasec]

You're treading on dangerous ground with that comment. Consider the following:

2 Timothy 3:16
"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works."

Seems we need to embrace all of the scriptures in order to be true followers of Jesus.

are you saying that the NT writers knew they were writing scripture?

 

[tumbleweed41]

tumble



So thats the best you can come up with ? You have failed to show any statement stating what Jesus was supposed to had said.

I supplied a long list where Jesus endorses that he is not in fact Yahweh.

Can you supply a verse where Jesus explicitly states "I am God (Yahweh)"

 

[waitasec]

opcorn:





it should be pretty straight forward...or i expect it to be. hmmm, wonder why that is?

 

[Adonis65]

and over eating, binge shopping and anorexia aren't healthy either... why didn't you mention those things?

Who said anything about what is healthy and what isn't? The question would be, are those things that you mentioned deviant acts?

drugs and alcohol consumption, foul language and even open sexuality may not work for you...so don't do it. who are you to judge?

I'm not judging. Are you trying to say that drugs, alcohol, foul language and open sexuality make society better? Do those things work for you?

if no one is hurting anyone else by doing these things what is the problem?

Are you saying that no one is hurting anyone else by doing these things?

i think you are more concerned about the symptoms of imperfection then you are about the cause of the imperfection...

Not quite. I think you are grossly oversimplifying and trying to label me as judgemental.

no one is perfect...

Check.

in fact, like it or not, judging others is a sign of imperfection in and of itself. it is a symptom of control...

The only person judging here, is you. In essence, you are suffering from a symptom of your own diagnosis.

the majority standard of conduct is to treat others as you would like to be treated...with respect. that is why personal beliefs and personal freedoms do not go hand in hand...what i think we are missing here is the element of responsibility that does goes hand in hand with freedom...a sense of responsibility to respecting others. it's really not that hard to get. telling others what is considered to be moral based on personal belief, that is after all a personal belief, as one who appoints themselves to sit in the seat of judgement of others is just a sign of disrespect...no one wants to be dominated by another human being...who holds just as much value as the next person...

What you are doing here, is telling me that society accepts your standards, and not mine. That your ideals hold the keys to a successful society, and not mine. And since you believe that you live a higher law than I do, I think we should discuss your recipe for a better society. Let's begin with the president of the United States: Who did you vote for in this last election?

 

[Shermana]

are you saying that the NT writers knew they were writing scripture?

2 Timothy's circular nature is one of the many reasons it's considered fraudulent. "Scripture says all scripture is good, inclluding this one which will one day be scripture!"

If anything, I think it supposes the idea that Timothy wasn't intended to be regarded as Writ in itself.

 

[Adonis65]

are you saying that the NT writers knew they were writing scripture?

I'm saying 2 Timothy 3:16 states that all scriptures are inspired of God.

Are you trying to put words in my mouth?

 

[Adonis65]

2 Timothy's circular nature is one of the many reasons it's considered fraudulent. "Scripture says all scripture is good, inclluding this one which will one day be scripture!"

If anything, I think it supposes the idea that Timothy wasn't intended to be regarded as Writ in itself.

That's why his words have remained in the Bible to this day, huh?

See, this is what I am talking about. Never, ever, is it wise to trust atheists to interpret scripture.

Read all scriptures in the attitude of prayer and fasting. Leave the doubt to the critics.

 

[idav]

I'm saying 2 Timothy 3:16 states that all scriptures are inspired of God.

They would be referring to the OT scriptures. Did the writer of Timothy know that it would later be considered scripture?

 

[Shermana]

That's why his words have remained in the Bible to this day, huh?

See, this is what I am talking about. Never, ever, is it wise to trust atheists to interpret scripture.

Read all scriptures in the attitude of prayer and fasting. Leave the doubt to the critics.

Remained to this day by who? Even today's versions contain notes that say the Pastorals are highly doubted by the concensus, even among many "Conservative" scholars. Very few except "pastors" believe that Timothy and Titus are legit. Or Ephesians. The evidence against them is great.

To this day, Ordothox and Catholics (over half of Christians) keep the Apocrypha in their Bible, but Protestants think that because Martin Luther snipped them out, they can too. But you have a scholarly reason for taking them out right?

Why should I doubt that Shepherd of Hermas was inspired Scripture?

Should I not doubt that the King James version of 1 John 5:7 is based on an interpolation either?

"Leave doubt to the critics".

I doubt the critics quite often, but when they say the sky is blue, it's hard to disagree.

 

[waitasec]

I'm saying 2 Timothy 3:16 states that all scriptures are inspired of God.

Are you trying to put words in my mouth?

no silly, i'm trying to understand what you mean...why are you so defensive...?
did someone pee in your cheerios or something?
:149:

so can you at least try to answer the question...?
did the NT writers know they were writing scripture...or was 2 timothy just a letter? so, i'm guessing scripture would mean the OT, right? and it couldn't have been the NT because they weren't written yet...

 

[waitasec]

Who said anything about what is healthy and what isn't? The question would be, are those things that you mentioned deviant acts?

unhealthy for society yes...and yes these are deviant acts...do you consider them normal behavior?

I'm not judging. Are you trying to say that drugs, alcohol, foul language and open sexuality make society better?

yes you are...
you come off as though you do not have any vices...do you claim yourself to be perfect...

Do those things work for you?

so what if it did or didn't that isn't the point...how does my drinking wine with my meal, or enjoying a drag of weed or having sex with my same sex parter have anything to do with you...? how does this effect you, because you know about it...?

Are you saying that no one is hurting anyone else by doing these things?

now i can see if i drink too much wine and i become aggravated or i drive drunk how that can infringe on other people rights
i can understand how over eating/bad eating habits can add to the diabetic epademic we have in this country, which will bankrupt us one day...
i can understand if i have a problem with binge shopping as i throw away my kids savings out the window for the perfect pair of shoes or to make me feel better....
all these things are symptoms my friend....symptoms of imperfection
anything in excess is deviant behavior....

Not quite. I think you are grossly oversimplifying and trying to label me as judgemental.



Check.



The only person judging here, is you. In essence, you are suffering from a symptom of your own diagnosis.

let me remind you, you are the one who took this over the top

I agree. Personal freedoms should prevail -- just not at the cost of society. Some people may believe that stealing from the rich would constitute a personal freedom. Or perhaps others might believe that running around in public with no clothes on is a personal freedom. I'm sure others would love to be able to get drunk in public, or shoot up heroin on public school grounds and call these personal freedoms. Some parents consume alcohol in front of their children, and at times, unintentionally drink to excess. Oops, now what? Does the child get smacked around at this point, or does dad doze off in a drunken stupor and leave the kids unattended?

What you are doing here, is telling me that society accepts your standards, and not mine. That your ideals hold the keys to a successful society, and not mine. And since you believe that you live a higher law than I do, I think we should discuss your recipe for a better society. Let's begin with the president of the United States: Who did you vote for in this last election?

you said:

The only people who do the infringing are the ones who don't accept the majority's standards of conduct.

i said

the majority standard of conduct is to treat others as you would like to be treated...with respect. that is why personal beliefs and personal freedoms do not go hand in hand...

so you don't live by the golden rule? is that what you are saying?

 

[Adonis65]

no silly, i'm trying to understand what you mean

What part of the scripture do you not understand?

so can you at least try to answer the question...?
did the NT writers know they were writing scripture...or was 2 timothy just a letter? so, i'm guessing scripture would mean the OT, right? and it couldn't have been the NT because they weren't written yet...

I don't know if they "knew" per se, for I cannot read minds, much less divine personal spiritual experiences of dead writers. Can you do this, waitasec, or are you merely attempting to cross my words?

What I do know is that the Bible is a "holy book", therefore, its contents is defined as scripture.

 

[Adonis65]

unhealthy for society yes...and yes these are deviant acts...do you consider them normal behavior?

Why would you ask me that question when you already know the answer?

yes you are...
you come off as though you do not have any vices...do you claim yourself to be perfect...

No, I'm not.
I claim to not have any of those vices. Do you?

so what if it did or didn't that isn't the point...how does my drinking wine with my meal, or enjoying a drag of weed or having sex with my same sex parter have anything to do with you...? how does this effect you, because you know about it...?

No, what you do behind closed doors is your business, and vice-versa. It's your opposing view to mine that is what affects me. See, we are experiencing a clash of philosophies. I want to live in a moral society, and you want to live in something contrary to that. So where does that leave us? Certainly not with your skewed view. Your idea of mutual respect involves total surrender to your belief system. Do you think that is fair? Of course you do, because you consider me to be the judgemental one. But despite your judgemental attitude toward me, it is my argument that most Americans want to live in a society that is more in line with my view, than yours.

now i can see if i drink too much wine and i become aggravated or i drive drunk how that can infringe on other people rights
i can understand how over eating/bad eating habits can add to the diabetic epademic we have in this country, which will bankrupt us one day...
i can understand if i have a problem with binge shopping as i throw away my kids savings out the window for the perfect pair of shoes or to make me feel better....
all these things are symptoms my friend....symptoms of imperfection
anything in excess is deviant behavior....

At least we can agree on this point.

so you don't live by the golden rule? is that what you are saying?

Not as well as I could, but neither do you.

 

[waitasec]

Why would you ask me that question when you already know the answer?

i was wondering why you would list drinking, drugs and sexuality as the vices while excluding binge eating disorders, dyslexia and low self esteem issues..

No, I'm not.
I claim to not have any of those vices. Do you?

a vice is a vice is a vice...do you have any or are you perfect?

No, what you do behind closed doors is your business, and vice-versa.

yes it is

It's your opposing view to mine that is what affects me.

explain to me how exactly?

See, we are experiencing a clash of philosophies. I want to live in a moral society, and you want to live in something contrary to that.

explain to me why secular societies are happier and healthier than religious societies?

So where does that leave us? Certainly not with your skewed view. Your idea of mutual respect involves total surrender to your belief system.

it is a better system than imposing anything on anyone...so i'm really curious as to how a neutral system involves one to surrender their personal ideals...maybe what you are surrendering is any type of control over other people and it leaves you with this:

luke 6
27 “But to you who are listening I say: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, 28 bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. 29 If someone slaps you on one cheek, turn to them the other also. If someone takes your coat, do not withhold your shirt from them. 30 Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back. 31 Do to others as you would have them do to you.
32 “If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners love those who love them. 33 And if you do good to those who are good to you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners do that. 34 And if you lend to those from whom you expect repayment, what credit is that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners, expecting to be repaid in full. 35 But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be children of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked. 36 Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful.

Judging Others

37 “Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven. 38 Give, and it will be given to you. A good measure, pressed down, shaken together and running over, will be poured into your lap. For with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.”
39 He also told them this parable: “Can the blind lead the blind? Will they not both fall into a pit? 40 The student is not above the teacher, but everyone who is fully trained will be like their teacher.

41 “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 42 How can you say to your brother, ‘Brother, let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when you yourself fail to see the plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.


being a christian isn't supposed to be easy....

At least we can agree on this point.

why wouldn't we...?

Not as well as I could, but neither do you.

but this is a tenant you are supposed to live by...not me
i do it because i want to...

 

[adamht]

He is God, (the) One.
God the Self-Sufficient Master, Whom all creatures need (He neither eats nor drinks).
He begets not, nor was He begotten.
And there is none co-equal or comparable unto Him.

God! There is no God save Him, the Alive, the Eternal.
Neither slumber nor sleep overtaketh Him.
Unto Him belongeth whatsoever is in the heavens and whatsoever is in the earth.
Who is he that intercedeth with Him save by His leave?
He knoweth that which is in front of them and that which is behind them, while they encompass nothing of His knowledge save what He will.
His throne includeth the heavens and the earth, and He is never weary of preserving them.
He is the Sublime,the Tremendous.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

He is God, (the) One.
God the Self-Sufficient Master, Whom all creatures need (He neither eats nor drinks).
He begets not, nor was He begotten.
And there is none co-equal or comparable unto Him.

God! There is no God save Him, the Alive, the Eternal.
Neither slumber nor sleep overtaketh Him.
Unto Him belongeth whatsoever is in the heavens and whatsoever is in the earth.
Who is he that intercedeth with Him save by His leave?
He knoweth that which is in front of them and that which is behind them, while they encompass nothing of His knowledge save what He will.
His throne includeth the heavens and the earth, and He is never weary of preserving them.
He is the Sublime,the Tremendous.

Great because none of this describes the biblical Yeshua before being sent to Earth by his god, while he was here on Earth doing what his god commanded him to do or when he ascended back to heaven when he informs John that he has a god (Rev. 3:12)....

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Great because none of this describes the biblical Yeshua before being sent to Earth by his god, while he was here on Earth doing what his god commanded him to do or when he ascended back to heaven when he informs John that he has a god (Rev. 3:12)....

Beside informing John he [Jesus] has a God over him, at Rev 2v18 doesn't the heavenly resurrected Jesus still think he is the 'Son of God' ?

 

[Peace8700]

I have been asked to produce evidence of the divinity of Jesus. This is not just good evidence, it is overwhelming evidence.


Words of Jesus

John 14:9 ... he that hath seen me hath seen the Father
John 14:10 ... the words that I say unto you , I speak not from myself but from the Father abiding in Me doeth His works
John 14:11 ... I am in the Father and the Father in Me
John 10:30 I and My Father are one
John 10:33 ... thou being a man makest Thyself God
John 8:58 Jesus said ... before Abraham was born, Jah (Jah is the short form of Jeshovah)
John 8:59 They took up stones therefore to cast at Him
Mark 2:5 and Jesus seeing their faith saith ... thy sins are forgiven
Mark 2:7 ... who can forgive sins but one, even God
Mark 10:17 ... good teacher Mark 10:18 Why callest Me good? None is good save one, even God John 10:11 I am the good shepherd
Mat. 1:21 ... call his name Jesus; for it is He that shall save his people from their sins
Prophecies of the Messiah Jesus
Isa. 45:21 ... I, Jehovah? and there is no God else besides Me a just God and savior, there is none besides Me
Isa. 7:14 ... a sign: behold a virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and shall call His name Immanuel (God with us)
Isa 9:6 a son is given, and the government shall be upon His shoulder, and His name shall be called: Wonderful, Counsellor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace

Attributes of God
Omnipresence
John 1:46 Nathaniel saith unto Him, Whence knowest thou me? Jesus answered and said unto him Before Philip called thee, when thou wast under the fig tree, I saw thee.
John 1:49 Nathaniel answered him, Rabbi thou art the Son of God; thou art King of Israel.
John 1:50 Jesus answered ... thou shalt see greater things than these
Omniscience
Luke 6:8 ...the Pharisees watched Him ... that they might find how to accuse him but He knew their thoughts
John 4:17 ... Thou sayest well, I have no husband
John 4:18 for thou hast had five husbands and he whom thou now hast is not thy husband
Omnipotence
Mark 4:41 ... Who then is this, that even the wind and the sea obey Him?

(He turned water into wine, multiplied bread, healed the sick and the blind, raised a man who was dead for four days)
Authority
Luke 4:36 ... for with authority and power He commandeth the unclean spirits and they come out
Mat 7:29 for He taught them as one having authority
Mat 28:18 ... Jesus ...spake... saying, all authority hath been given unto Me in heaven and on earth
The "I am" statements of Jesus
John 8:12 ... I am the light of the world
John 14:6 ... I am the way, the truth and the life
John 6:35 ... I am the bread of life
John 10:9 I am the door, by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved
John 11:25 ... I am the resurrection and the life
John 15:1 I am the true vine (this is a reference to Jesus being the Paraclete)

You are right... Jesus never said that he was God..... Cuz God doesnt need to come down to earth n preach..... He was messanger ov God, sent down n born without the father from the Virgin Maryem (Mary). For those who say that he was Son of God cant answer the name ov his mother..... Do they really think God needs a wife n son?.....????.....God is one, no one has seen him, no one can see him, then how can he b accused ov havin a son....these wives n sons r human business. we need em, God doesnt..... Cuz he was not son ov God n the God so Jesus never claimed ov that............

 

[Peace8700]

John 14:10
Father is not Human father...for God's sake dont mix it with a humanly thing..... According to courtesies ov old languages, the word father means " The protector, The creator, The one who takes care ov everything".....plz dont inter-mix.....God doesnt need human sons......Plz use common sense.... Even in Pakistan, the biggest landowner is known as "Father" among the ones who serve under him.... Its common in whole world.......