Did the Pagans Fight like the Christians?

[Serpent Child]

We all know how in the past Christians of different denominations have fought, like the Protestants vs. Catholics. So I'm asking if the Pagans also did this? I consider "Paganism" Greek Paganism, Egyptian Polytheism, Norse Paganism, Babylonia, Sumerian, etc. and their gods/goddesses. I'm asking because I heard that "the pagans did not fight like the christians because they knew they were all the same Gods they worshipped/were involved with." Like the Pagans didn't fight for religious reasons or because their gods were better than the other pagan gods. I heard it originally here-

This is where the idea came from, this video mainly talks about European Paganism though.

In my own personal experience I have never heard of Pagans in the past and modern times bicker, fight and cause wars for religious reasons.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

Probably. Hell, we fight like that today.

 

[Serpent Child]

Probably. Hell, we fight like that today.

Sources? ò.ó

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

It's just common sense. People are people, and we bicker over small things like that. I mean, they didn't really have doctrine or dogma like the Christians have, but the probably disagreed with each other from time to time. It's just one of those things that we probably won't be able to tell for sure.

 

[danieldemol]

I don't know if there is any historicity to it or not, but the Greeks are said to have desecrated the Trojan temple to Athena, which may suggest that they weren't all viewed as the same gods all the time.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

I don't know if there is any historicity to it or not, but the Greeks are said to have desecrated the Trojan temple to Athena, which may suggest that they weren't all viewed as the same gods all the time.

The Greeks did that because they'd been laying siege to Troy for a decade (if the Iliad is to be believed) - they were probably impatient, hungry for loot and slaughter and missing their families as most besieging armies would have been. In Hellenic & Hellenistic societies (in fact in Pagan societies generally), a temple or sacred space was an important pillar of the community - destroying would have been a step to breaking community spirit & cohesion. So it's seriously doubtful that the Greeks did it because they viewed Trojan Athena as different from Greek Athena - or at least different enough to make that the reason to go out of her way to smash her temple.

The sort of sectarian attitude described in the OP really doesn't make much sense in a polytheist context where there's no universally-agreed-upon dogma.

 

[LuisDantas]

Curious and IMO mistaken assumption, that mentioned in the OP, that "knowing" that the various pagan pantheons would somehow turn out to be "the same" would be helpful in avoiding serious conflict among pagans.

It seems to me that the history of proselitist monotheisms shows that such a conviction, if true. would be a serious motivator of hostility and violence, not a ward against it.

Very little (if any) religiously-motivated hostility would exist were it not for deeply-help convictions that people of different beliefs somehow "deep down" knew that their own true gods were "the same" as those of the "offended" party.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

No. There's no evidence of that. You do have examples of certain cults being suppressed in certain instances because their behavior violated social norms. But that's it.

 

[Grumpuss]

No. There's no evidence of that. You do have examples of certain cults being suppressed in certain instances because their behavior violated social norms. But that's it.

Scientology comes to mind as a modern example...

 

[shunyadragon]

Scientology comes to mind as a modern example...

Scientology violates more than just 'social norms.' In fact they are an aggressive, secretive organization that has aggressively attacked their detractors and those that leave the organization. It has been pretty much documented that Scientology uses psychological warfare, and manipulative intimidation, and brainwashing

 

[Grumpuss]

Scientology violates more than just 'social norms.' In fact they are an aggressive, secretive organization that has aggressively attacked their detractors and those that leave the organization. It has been pretty much documented that Scientology uses psychological warfare, and manipulative intimidation, and brainwashing

My main criticism is that is violates the norms even for religion. Without even trying to debate the bizarre, apparently made-up nature of the religion or how it has aggressively reacted to criticism, it stands alone as a "mainstream cult" that is allowed to fleece its congregation for mandatory fees.

Just imagine if the Catholic Church impressed upon its adherents that confession was necessary to save their immortal souls. But then it charged a flat $160 fee for doing so.

 

[von bek]

The Greeks did not desecrate the Athena statue from Troy, they stole it.

 

[von bek]

The Greeks did that because they'd been laying siege to Troy for a decade (if the Iliad is to be believed) - they were probably impatient, hungry for loot and slaughter and missing their families as most besieging armies would have been. In Hellenic & Hellenistic societies (in fact in Pagan societies generally), a temple or sacred space was an important pillar of the community - destroying would have been a step to breaking community spirit & cohesion. So it's seriously doubtful that the Greeks did it because they viewed Trojan Athena as different from Greek Athena - or at least different enough to make that the reason to go out of her way to smash her temple.

The sort of sectarian attitude described in the OP really doesn't make much sense in a polytheist context where there's no universally-agreed-upon dogma.

The Athena statue wasn't destroyed, Odysseus and Diomedes snuck in and stole it. It had been foretold that Troy could not fall as long as it possessed the Palladium. (The Athena statue.)

 

[SabahTheLoner]

I'm asking because I heard that "the pagans did not fight like the christians because they knew they were all the same Gods they worshipped/were involved with." Like the Pagans didn't fight for religious reasons or because their gods were better than the other pagan gods.

I don't know what statement could be any more false.

The Pagans fight over the validity of certain forms of worship, the nature of gods, what god is an aspect of not of this other god, the adoption of gods, wether or not the gods exist in this or that way, etc... it probably isn't as common or as public as the Christians fighting over who God is, but there is quite a fight among different groups of Pagans over little details of various faiths. I think the only reason it isn't as common is because the many roots of the umbrella Pagan traditions tend to recognize many other traditions as valid or not against the "rules".

 

[Kirran]

My main criticism is that is violates the norms even for religion. Without even trying to debate the bizarre, apparently made-up nature of the religion or how it has aggressively reacted to criticism, it stands alone as a "mainstream cult" that is allowed to fleece its congregation for mandatory fees.

Just imagine if the Catholic Church impressed upon its adherents that confession was necessary to save their immortal souls. But then it charged a flat $160 fee for doing so.

Not all Scientologists charge. There's a diverse reformist movement who go against the institution of the Church of Scientology, which does charge.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I don't know what statement could be any more false.

The Pagans fight over the validity of certain forms of worship, the nature of gods, what god is an aspect of not of this other god, the adoption of gods, wether or not the gods exist in this or that way, etc... it probably isn't as common or as public as the Christians fighting over who God is, but there is quite a fight among different groups of Pagans over little details of various faiths. I think the only reason it isn't as common is because the many roots of the umbrella Pagan traditions tend to recognize many other traditions as valid or not against the "rules".

We don't take up arms against each other over religion. Otherwise, provide evidence.

 

[SabahTheLoner]

We don't take up arms against each other over religion. Otherwise, provide evidence.

There are Theistic Pagans who believe that Athiestic Paganism is impossible and/or entirely a contradiction to Pagan beliefs. And there are a lot of debates both about and within the Pagan community about the importance or significance of gods, and some Wiccans constantly try to prove that their faith is the one oldest and most valid Pagan faith. This leads to a lot of controversial flame wars and arguments. The link below provides some examples of interfaith disagreements, among other things. Paganism for Beginners: Controversies

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

There are Theistic Pagans who believe that Athiestic Paganism is impossible and/or entirely a contradiction to Pagan beliefs. And there are a lot of debates both about and within the Pagan community about the importance or significance of gods, and some Wiccans constantly try to prove that their faith is the one oldest and most valid Pagan faith. This leads to a lot of controversial flame wars and arguments. The link below provides some examples of interfaith disagreements, among other things. Paganism for Beginners: Controversies

Of course there's bickering over certain things. Thst happens with all groups. My point is that there's violence or wars over it.

 

[SabahTheLoner]

Of course there's bickering over certain things. Thst happens with all groups. My point is that there's violence or wars over it.

I found a claim that Alexander the Great fought the Persians because they destroyed Hellenic temples, but I don't know if any Persians were Pagan or polytheistic at the time. The same source has information about an inter-city war in Greece over the sacred grounds of Apollo. Were there any wars in ancient Greece where religion played a major part?

 

[Grumpuss]

Not all Scientologists charge. There's a diverse reformist movement who go against the institution of the Church of Scientology, which does charge.

Oh? I didn't know that. Are these fringe members who were booted out or left the main religion? I know the official Church of Scientology charges, and beaucoup bucks to get to the higher levels.

Even worse, Scientology often gives away free introductory sessions of auditing, while whittling down one's psyche, establishing an emotional need to pay for additional / lifetime sessions. Drug dealer's tactic.