Difference in moral thought between atheists and believers

[McBell]

The trolley will cause death either way but inaction to save 4 is immoral.

Even if the four are two serial rapists and two serial killers?

 

[Banach-Tarski Paradox]

Even if the four are two serial rapists and two serial killers?

Even if he’s required to personally rape a woman in order to save those 4 lives.

If we scale these rules up, we can handle cases of armed groups who seek to create a utopia.

Their level of their impunity is only bounded by the level of their ambitions.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

I don't know who those believers are that were "icky" about pulling the switch but their moral development is severely lacking. Failing to act to save 4 lives is a moral failure. The trolley will cause death either way but inaction to save 4 is immoral.

And yet, when it becomes personal and direct, such as having to push a fat traveler out of the trolley and onto the track in order to save the five people, most people won't do it. Would you?

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Well morality does not actually exist in the world, neither do ethics or values.

Morals, ethics, and values are the internal compass that humans use to guide and evaluate actions. I think the evidence supports the idea that empathy and fairness, the two building blocks of morality, are instinctual for most humans.

 

[Ignatius A]

Even if the four are two serial rapists and two serial killers

yep. people with bad intent can always find a reason to justify killing people.

 

[McBell]

yep. people with bad intent can always find a reason to justify killing people.

People with good intent can also find a reason to justify killing people.
So what?

 

[Ignatius A]

People with good intent can also find a reason to justify killing people.
So what?

right. thats why killing people is a bad idea. telling me they were serial rapists and killers was asinine.

 

[Ignatius A]

And yet, when it becomes personal and direct, such as having to push a fat traveler out of the trolley and onto the track in order to save the five people, most people won't do it. Would you?

I dont know.

 

[McBell]

right. thats why killing people is a bad idea. telling me they were serial rapists and killers was asinine.

To you perhaps, but many would say that serial killers and serial rapists are more deserving of death.
So even if all five of them were serious bad people it would be more moral to save one bad person than four.

 

[Heyo]

I dont know.

You seem to know the Trolley problem and the "fat man" iteration. Do you know the "surgeon" iteration?
What would you do in that case?

 

[joelr]

Exactly so there is no point in continuing on.

Why hold a belief you know has no evidence, no logic and are just claims you want to be true?

 

[Ignatius A]

You seem to know the Trolley problem and the "fat man" iteration. Do you know the "surgeon" iteration?
What would you do in that case?

I don't know. We know people say they will do things but if or until they are actually in the situation they don't really know.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

yep. people with bad intent can always find a reason to justify killing people.

What is your evidence they have bad intent?

 

[Ignatius A]

What is your evidence they have bad intent?

Their behavior. This is admittedly a guess but I suspect most people who steal from others have bad intent.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Their behavior. This is admittedly a guess but I suspect most people who steal from others have bad intent.

So no evidence.

 

[Ignatius A]

So no evidence.

I gave you the evidence. You don't like it. Not my problem.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

I gave you the evidence. You don't like it. Not my problem.

A guess is not evidence. For their behaviour you didn't explain how you know it is bad or good.

 

[Ignatius A]

A guess is not evidence. For their behaviour you didn't explain how you know it is bad or good.

I won't comment on your reading comprehension. I said their behavior was the evidence not my guess. I said it was a guess of their intent but that the behavior is evidence of bad intent.

 

[Heyo]

I don't know. We know people say they will do things but if or until they are actually in the situation they don't really know.

Then let me rephrase the question: What would be the moral thing to do, according to your moral compass?

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

I won't comment on your reading comprehension. I said their behavior was the evidence not my guess. I said it was a guess of their intent but that the behavior is evidence of bad intent.

Yeah, then that is not how I use the word evidence. Okay, we use different versions of evidence.