Disagreements over how/when to reopen schools

[Stevicus]

Coronavirus spike jeopardizes opening of schools, L.A. County's top health official warns

As COVID-19 pandemic continues, opinions differ in debate over reopening of schools

“Every single school district at this point needs to have plans in place to continue distance learning for 100% of the time,” Ferrer told school officials. “Given where our numbers are,” she said, referring to infections and hospitalizations, “we would be irresponsible if we didn’t say to you that you have to have the backup plan ready.

If campuses can’t open for the start of the school year, she added, they might be able to open later in the semester.

Arizona has now become the new hot spot, and it seems clear that they reopened too early. I was sort of hoping that the summer heat would slow things down a bit, but that was not to be.

Meanwhile, Trump and his Education Secretary are insisting that the schools open, and they're even threatening to cut off federal aid to schools that fail to reopen.

Ferrer’s warning adds to the ongoing exasperation for parents, and came as an intense national debate, amplified by President Trump, has erupted over when and how schools should reopen — and how best to balance stopping the spread of the coronavirus with the harm done by keeping students home.

Trump stepped up his drive to reopen campuses Wednesday by threatening in a tweet to withhold federal funding from schools that stay closed, while also asserting, “In Germany, Denmark, Norway, Sweden and many other countries, SCHOOLS ARE OPEN WITH NO PROBLEMS,” a claim that has been disputed.

When asked about Trump’s comments, California Gov. Gavin Newsom said that local districts are empowered to make their own decisions on reopening and need flexibility to determine how to do it, adding that safety is “nonnegotiable.” Students and school employees should not face unacceptable risk, he said.

I don't know if it's true that schools in Germany, Denmark, Norway, and Sweden have schools open with no problems. The article mentions that schools have reopened in some countries, but there's debate over what conclusions can be drawn.

Schools in some countries have reopened, but there’s debate over what conclusions to draw from those examples.

Key Florida state officials have sided with the president, threatening to withhold funding from school systems that don’t reopen. Arizona, led by a Republican governor and Trump ally, could comply substantially with the president’s exhortations for the fall, but recently closed all state campuses until Aug. 17. Hospitals in parts of that state are at risk of being overwhelmed with coronavirus patients.

But there's also widespread agreement that these long-term school closures are harming students academically and psychologically.

There is broad agreement among experts that the near-worldwide school shutdown has harmed students academically and psychologically.

Sofia Quezada, whose daughters attend Euclid Avenue Elementary and Hollenbeck Middle School in Boyle Heights, said she feels like the campus closures have forced her into the role of “substitute teacher — and I don’t have a lesson plan.”

Parents who aren't equipped to homeschool their children are becoming exasperated. I can see where it can be a hardship, especially for families who can't afford computers or internet. I'm not sure what they're going to do.

Prideaux, who works from home, said the past semester was a challenge to help her children get work done.

"They would email the assignments. The assignments would be posted, and it would just be left up to the parent to complete it all," said Prideaux.

Other suggestions include having sprawling schedules so that they would have fewer students at any one time and easier to enforce social distancing.

I think it's too early to reopen the schools. They reopened in Arizona too early, and now we're paying the price. It's unbelievable that they're talking about withholding funding to schools which don't reopen.

 

[Lyndon]

Schools are funded by the state, Trump has no say over what they do, as usual he's bluffing, he has no control over whether schools open or not.

 

[Mindmaster]

Parents who aren't equipped to homeschool their children are becoming exasperated. I can see where it can be a hardship, especially for families who can't afford computers or internet. I'm not sure what they're going to do.

The hardest part of educating children at home at extremely young ages, and I assure you that's where the bulk of the complaints are as far as homeschooling goes. The youngins learn way faster but have no patience for excessive detail. Once they hit around age 10 that completely changes and honestly could learn anything adults do with some explanation. The young ones are unable to deal with online instruction, and still, really learn hands-on the best. However, that being said there are tons of homeschool programs that address this and this is not a problem -- it's the school institutions that are at fault for this, homeschoolers have being doing these things for centuries without a problem. It's all about the material provided and how it is used. If you are getting a homeschool program from a reputable vendor there is no problem in this regard. (Most of the materials they send you will accommodate these small children and NOT be on the computer.) But, schools hate this... It cuts them out of the loop because it is not their area of expertise. Homeschool is really _way_ better on the learning front as you can tailor the program directly to your child's interests and aptitudes. They really end up learning WAY more.

I've said it before on here many times... We don't need these institutions, it's the old way of doing things and it's way more expensive than a normal homeschool program that usually ends up with more education. It avoids all sorts of stupid problems too like safety, bullying, drug use, and so on.

Schools are funded by the state, Trump has no say over what they do, as usual he's bluffing, he has no control over whether schools open or not.

This is mostly true, but it's also true that a lot of money comes via the federal government. In many places, the real estate tax isn't high enough to cover the cost of education and there's no business sector to take it from. Fed steps in here in a big way. Personally, I don't care if they're ever open... outdated learning model...

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

Children can't vote so the elected officials don't care if a few die.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Schools are funded by the state, Trump has no say over what they do, as usual he's bluffing, he has no control over whether schools open or not.

That's true but he can withhold federal funding.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Children can't vote so the elected officials don't care if a few die.

Actually children are quite resistant to the virus although there were a few who have actually died.

Personally I think it should be a decision best left to the parents.

 

[Brickjectivity]

Children can't vote so the elected officials don't care if a few die.

Unelected officials care even less, historically. It should be noted.

 

[pearl]

It will be interesting to see how our governor responds as he has been quite cautious about opening schools too soon, and will follow the scientists more than Trump, which is a problem for him as a republican governor.

 

[ecco]

Unelected officials care even less, historically. It should be noted.

I'm sure you have good evidence for that assertion. I'd sure like to see it.

 

[Altfish]

Schools are starting to reopen in England, but with smaller classes, usually only part-time and in many cases not all years.

 

[columbus]

Actually children are quite resistant to the virus although there were a few who have actually died.

That's irrelevant.
They can easily get infected and pass the virus on to people far more at risk.

Why is this so hard to understand?
We healthy, low risk folks, are hugely inconveniencing ourselves for the sake of people like my mother-in-law.
Tom

 

[ChristineM]

Reopening schools in france has been, shall we say interesting. The government decreed that some junior schools can open over 2 months ago, depending on a/ the area and b/ the assessment of the local mayor. We are in a green area so the first hurdle was no problem. Our mayor asked the parents by sending out a simple questionnaire, "should our village school re-open?"

Around 30% replied yes, 30% replied no and 40% of parents did not respond. The school remained closed

It was reopened at the beginning of july with small classes split morning / afternoon.

Senior schools were not to open in may but would open in june. Same arrangement with half the students attending in the morning and half in the afternoon.

Colleges and universities will not open until at least September, if there is any sign of a second wave then not even then

 

[Brickjectivity]

I'm sure you have good evidence for that assertion. I'd sure like to see it.

"Many countries today claim to be democracies, but if the citizens are not involved in government and politics, they are democratic in name only. Some governments are more democratic than others, but systems cannot be considered truly democratic unless the meet certain criteria:" -- from Comparing Governments [ushistory.org]

Spoiler: list of unelected leaders

President Denis Sassou Nguesso of the Congo
President Miguel Diaz-Canel of Cuba
President Teodoro Mbasogo of Equatorial Guinea
President Isaias Afwerki of Eritrea
Prime Minister Abiy Ahmed of Ethiopia
President Albert-Bernard Bongo of Gabon
President Hassan Rouhani of Iran
President Barham Salih of Iraq
President Kassym-Jomart Tokayev of Kazakhstan
President Bounnhang Vorachith of Laos
President Nouri Abusahmain of Libya
President Mohamed Ould Ghazouani of Mauritania
President Daniel Ortego of Nicaragua
President Kim Jong-un of North Korea
Sultan Qaboos bin Said Al-Said of Oman
Emir Tamin Al Thani of Qatar
President Vladimir Putin of Russia
President Paul Kagame of Rwanda
King Abdullah Aziz Al Saud of Saudi Arabia
President Mohamed Abdullahi Mohamed of Somalia
President Salva Kiir Mayardit of South Sudan
President Abdel Fattah Abdelrahman Burhan of Sudan
King Mswati III of Swaziland
President Bashar al-Assad of Syria
President Emomalii Rahmon of Tajikistan
Prime Minister Prayut Chan-o-cha of Thailand
Chairman Losang Jamcan of Tibet
Prime Minister Recep Erdogan of Turkey
President Gurbanguly Berdimuhammedow of Turkmenistan
President Yoweri Museveni of Uganda
King Sheikh Khalifa Nahyan of the United Arab Emirates
President Shavkat Mirziyoyev of Uzbekistan
President Nicolas Maduro of Venezuela
President Nguyen Phu Trong of Vietnam
President Brahim Ghali of Western Sahara
President Abd Al-Hadi of Yemen

These are all either unelected or use rigged elections. Notice most of them have a reputation as killers. Note that rigged elections are treachery and are suppression of public opinion through intimidation, betrayal and disrespect.

With few exceptions (I know of none) they rule with intimidation. They are unrestrained by the people's vote. Here they are, unelected. They are not restrained by elections. Of these they're all, with few or no exceptions, murderers. Its public record, not a guess. You simply don't cross these people in their countries, and they do as they wish. Are these names not enough? There are plenty of historical examples, too; ones that have died. Actually its the dead ones that we can get more information about. The living ones punish anyone who accuses themselves of anything, yet we do get reports and hear about their terrible deeds.

Consider their policies. Who comes first? Themselves, always. They are unrestrained by elections.

Now on the other hand consider elected officials. They are inhibited from always serving themselves, because they have to seek reelection. They have to watch their backs for whistleblowers and complications of the bureaucracies. Their power is always in question, has limitations, and they feel the threat of punishment for wrongs.

Oh, yes. Elected officials have no choice but to care a little bit more than the unelected ones.

 

[Polymath257]

I'm at a university in Illinois (in the US) and it looks like we are going to be opening, at least to some extent. I was told the goal is to have 80% online, with a consideration for labs and special needs situations.

That said, a lot is up in the air and depends on how this pandemic evolves. We don't have a final exam schedule for the fall semester, which we usually have a year ahead of time (it is being 'reviewed') and it is far from clear that FTF classes will actually happen.

From a personal perspective, I have asthma and already have scarring in my lungs. Getting this virus would, for me, likely be a death sentence. I really don't see a way to safely teach a classroom full of students, even with plexiglass, face masks, etc. The hallways alone will be locations for spreading this virus quickly through the population here. Exams will be a nightmare. Most professors and instructors are either 'at risk' or live with someone who is.

On the other hand, a big part of the college experience is interaction with others on campus. And, the best teaching results tend to be those that are FTF. Furthermore, the Federal government (Trump) is starting to weigh in, threatening to hold back funding and denying visas to foreign students (many instructors are in this category, which causes more problems staffing classes). So there is a LOT of pressure to have FTF classes.

Given how poorly this crisis has been managed in the US, I don't see a safe way to have FTF classes in the fall. I'm not convinced we will have things under control enough by the spring semester to open up.

 

[metis]

Meanwhile, Trump and his Education Secretary are insisting that the schools open, and they're even threatening to cut off federal aid to schools that fail to reopen.

Which is nothing short of being demonic, imo.

I don't know if it's true that schools in Germany, Denmark, Norway, and Sweden have schools open with no problems.

Sweden has paid a much higher price than the other Scandinavian counties by going for "herd immunity", and they have one of the best healthcare systems in the world.

But there's also widespread agreement that these long-term school closures are harming students academically and psychologically.

True.

Other suggestions include having sprawling schedules so that they would have fewer students at any one time and easier to enforce social distancing.

That I believe is the overall best short-term solution until the numbers come down, matched with some distance learning.

I think it's too early to reopen the schools. They reopened in Arizona too early, and now we're paying the price. It's unbelievable that they're talking about withholding funding to schools which don't reopen.

Yes, and I'm following that as one of our relatives lives near Scottsdale.

Be careful-- please take care.

BTW, one of my granddaughters (19 yrs. old) was just diagnosed with the covid virus two days ago, and she's going through quite a bit of pain already, so please pray for her.

 

[Nakosis]

The POTUS can't actually do much harm, even with funding, he has to work with the congress and courts.
Still, generally gets to take the blame for every failure though.
For the most part, whoever is POTUS doesn't have a lot of effect on my life. At best, some extra media entertainment.

 

[sun rise]

I have asthma and already have scarring in my lungs. Getting this virus would, for me, likely be a death sentence. I really don't see a way to safely teach a classroom full of students, even with plexiglass, face masks, etc.

This is a perfect illustration why simplistic "send kids back to school" is a terrible idea because it ignores teachers who have medical issues as well as the impact of deaths in older people and the real possibility of long-term problems on the kids themselves.

We need a calm, fact-based discussion not ignorant sloganeering.

 

[Rational Agnostic]

I'm at a university in Illinois (in the US) and it looks like we are going to be opening, at least to some extent. I was told the goal is to have 80% online, with a consideration for labs and special needs situations.

That said, a lot is up in the air and depends on how this pandemic evolves. We don't have a final exam schedule for the fall semester, which we usually have a year ahead of time (it is being 'reviewed') and it is far from clear that FTF classes will actually happen.

From a personal perspective, I have asthma and already have scarring in my lungs. Getting this virus would, for me, likely be a death sentence. I really don't see a way to safely teach a classroom full of students, even with plexiglass, face masks, etc. The hallways alone will be locations for spreading this virus quickly through the population here. Exams will be a nightmare. Most professors and instructors are either 'at risk' or live with someone who is.

On the other hand, a big part of the college experience is interaction with others on campus. And, the best teaching results tend to be those that are FTF. Furthermore, the Federal government (Trump) is starting to weigh in, threatening to hold back funding and denying visas to foreign students (many instructors are in this category, which causes more problems staffing classes). So there is a LOT of pressure to have FTF classes.

Given how poorly this crisis has been managed in the US, I don't see a safe way to have FTF classes in the fall. I'm not convinced we will have things under control enough by the spring semester to open up.

Well if it makes you feel any better I read that asthma is NOT a major risk factor for COVID. One of my relatives friends got the virus while in her 90s with major health problems and survived. While obviously a serious virus, even people in the high risk categories survive the majority of the time. But in any case, if you don't feel comfortable teaching face to face you should have every right to make your classes online even if the university is going FTF. Everyone should be given a choice to do what they feel is safest for them.

 

[Rational Agnostic]

Coronavirus spike jeopardizes opening of schools, L.A. County's top health official warns

As COVID-19 pandemic continues, opinions differ in debate over reopening of schools



Arizona has now become the new hot spot, and it seems clear that they reopened too early. I was sort of hoping that the summer heat would slow things down a bit, but that was not to be.

Meanwhile, Trump and his Education Secretary are insisting that the schools open, and they're even threatening to cut off federal aid to schools that fail to reopen.



I don't know if it's true that schools in Germany, Denmark, Norway, and Sweden have schools open with no problems. The article mentions that schools have reopened in some countries, but there's debate over what conclusions can be drawn.



But there's also widespread agreement that these long-term school closures are harming students academically and psychologically.



Parents who aren't equipped to homeschool their children are becoming exasperated. I can see where it can be a hardship, especially for families who can't afford computers or internet. I'm not sure what they're going to do.



Other suggestions include having sprawling schedules so that they would have fewer students at any one time and easier to enforce social distancing.

I think it's too early to reopen the schools. They reopened in Arizona too early, and now we're paying the price. It's unbelievable that they're talking about withholding funding to schools which don't reopen.

I think online schooling is doable as long as the schools provide computers for each child in every family.

 

[tytlyf]

The reason republicans want schools is to open falls back on privatizing education. Republicans despise public education funding, they feel that money should go to private schools, religious schools, etc.
So IOW, republicans and their pro-corporate education agenda is losing money while students aren't there. It's all about corporations losing money. It's not about the kids.

SPN Political Activity
SPN and its affiliates push an extreme right-wing agenda that aims to privatize education, block healthcare reform, restrict workers' rights, roll back environmental protections, and create a tax system that benefits most those at the very top level of income.

SPN President Tracie Sharp was the recipient of the American Legislative Exchange Council's (ALEC's) 2009 "Private Sector Member of the Year Award." ALEC gave her the award because, according to an ALEC "scholar" and founder of SPN member think tank the Evergreen Freedom Foundation (now called simply the Freedom Foundation), "Not only have SPN members assisted legislators in drafting model legislation, they've been key in killing some proposals by 'rent-seeking' special interests." However, SPN's tax forms indicate that it does no lobbying.[11]

Although SPN's affiliates -- like SPN -- are registered as educational nonprofits, several appear to orchestrate extensive lobbying and political operations to peddle their legislative agenda to state legislators, despite the IRS's regulations on nonprofit political and lobbying activities.

State Policy Network - SourceWatch

BTW, Stephen Moore (SPN) just on Fox again.

Capitalists view students/kids as $$. That's it.