Disbelievers in Christianity Answer Please!

[InvestigateTruth]

The response of people is they imagine the Prophet to be a sorcerer or that he is possessed by entities performing the miracles. This is the response all Messengers get, there was no Messenger sent but was accused of being a sorcerer or possessed.

وَإِذَا رَأَوۡاْ ءَايَةٗ يَسۡتَسۡخِرُونَ 14
وَقَالُوٓاْ إِنۡ هَٰذَآ إِلَّا سِحۡرٞ مُّبِينٌ 15
أَءِذَا مِتۡنَا وَكُنَّا تُرَابٗا وَعِظَٰمًا أَءِنَّا لَمَبۡعُوثُونَ


"and when they see a Verse (from Allah), they mock at it

saying, “This is nothing but pure magic.

When we are dead and reduced to dust and bones, will we really be resurrected?"

17:13-15

This is saying, when Muhammad was revealing a Verse to them, and told them of resurrection of dead, they made fun by saying, this is a pure majic, hahaha, are we really going to be resurrected?


It does not mean, that, they saw a miracle, and made fun of the miracle. It says "اية"، which means a verse of the Quran. Specifically, verse regarding resurrection. But when Muhammad spoke of Resurrection of Dead, He was speaking of Spiritually reviving the disbelievers, who would be risen and become awakened from the Death of ignorance.

These are some of the verses from Surah Qaf 50th, Surrah:


"Nay, but they marvel that a warner of their own hath come unto them; and the disbelievers say: This is a strange thing

When we have died and become dust? That is a farfetched return.”

We know that which the earth taketh of them, and with Us is a recording Book

In fact, they reject the truth when it has come to them, so they are in a confused state.

And We have sent down from the sky water blessed, then We made to grow thereby gardens and grain (for) the harvest,

as provision for the worshipers. By it [the rain] We gave life to a dead town. This is how the emergence [from the graves] will take place.

And the trumpet is blown. This is the threatened Day

And every soul is brought, being driven, and with a witness"

All the verbs are past tense, meaning, the Resurrection of the Dead had come with the revelation of Muhammad. But since the Ulama had not understood, and imitated same ideas from the people of the Book, they imagined, Resurrection is a physical resurrection, and thus, they imagined these verses must be about future. Most of the translators thus, translted these verses with in future tense!

For example "And every soul is brought, being driven, and with a witness"

It says this was happening.

They did not understand that by "being driven and is with a witness" is meant, their own inner consciousness and spiritual forces, which is a witness to their own selves. They imagined that, some angles or something will do this! Then people, following in the footsteps of the Ulama, blindly repeated same interpretation.

 

[Trailblazer]

If I saw someone come down out of the sky who said he was Christ, I would call 911 and admit myself into a hospital.

Than I guess it's a good thing that is never going to happen.

 

[CG Didymus]

Except, Baha'u'llah is not an ordinary human spiritually. He is a different creation. His Physical body, is human though but not His spirit.
Beside this, i dont accept this blindly. We know Baha'u'llah did not have education, and was in prison and exile most of His life, so, where did He learn all that stuff, if He wasn't the manifestation of God? He wrote over 100 volumes of scriptures. Where was He getting the information and knowledge?

As you know, my problem with the Baha'i concepts of "progressive" revelation and "manifestations is with some of those that the Baha'i Faith claims were manifestations. The worst being Adam. Who in the Bible story, as if it is true and accurate and not myth, has Adam disobeying God.

Then there's Noah. Who in the Bible goes through a great flood and only he and his family survive. But Baha'u'llah doesn't mention the flood, yet says, "Among the Prophets was Noah. For nine hundred and fifty years He prayerfully exhorted His people and summoned them to the haven of security and peace."

Actually, maybe the worst is what the Baha'is do with Krishna. Is there any writings that the Baha'is have come up with that has anything from Baha'u'llah stating the Krishna was a manifestation? Yet, all of a sudden, Krishna becomes one. How did that happen? Abdul Baha' made him one?

But the Hindu Scriptures that talk about Krishna make him an incarnation, not a manifestation. And also, an incarnation of one of the three main Gods of Hinduism, Vishnu. Baha'is have to do a lot of finagling to make Krishna fit into their concept of being a manifestation of the one God of the Abrahamic religions. But they do. I know it doesn't bother Baha'is, but it does look suspicious to me.

 

[Heyo]

"If The Force of star wars was demonstrated to be real, would you believe it is real?"

Well... yeah. So what?

If The Force of star wars was demonstrated to be real, would you believe it is real?
And would you also believe that George Lucas is a prophet and everything he says is true?

The Force being real would be evidence of the Force being real - not more.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

According to the claims, not in fact. Objectively he's eitehr a fraud or delusional. It's unlikely he's genuine. Why? Lack of evidence.

Again, this is lore, not fact. You bought into it for non-factual reasons.

I find it unlikely that he wasn't influenced and lacked an imagination to invent such writings. The writings I have read are not impressive enough to be caused by a supernatural influence. You and other Baha'i have started many threads to promote your beliefs and they are not compelling to critical thinkers.

Theists like yourself underestimate the incredible claims you are making, and seem to gloss over the serious questions that suggest your texts were just creative writing by a creative mind. And let's not forget the biggest issue against Baha'i, the anti-gay rhetoric. That's a serious flaw that can't be fixed.

I would say You seem to be probably 99.9999% right. But you could probably be 0.0001 percent wrong.
How is that?

 

[danieldemol]

I would tentatively believe, but would have a lot of questions.

I basically picked option 1 even though it wasnt a neat fit

 

[Valjean]

Just because we observe something inexplicable doesn't mean it's reasonable to accept whatever narrative accompanies it.

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."
-- Arthur C Clarke

 

[Altfish]

Suppose, He comes down from Sky, and declairs He is Christ!

To prove it, He will take you, to some of your loved ones grave, and resurrects them. Those are grandparents or some close relatives and friends, and you know they had passed away and were in that graves.

Now, please answer the Poll, based on this event. Assume it happend

Oh dear. Whilst I would love to spend time with long gone family and friends, I'd rather something useful was done...

End poverty and starvation
End childhood cancer
Stop wars
End inequality

Come down, do that and I may start to believe. Worship you though, now that's another matter.

 

[Kfox]

Suppose, He comes down from Sky, and declairs He is Christ!

To prove it, He will take you, to some of your loved ones grave, and resurrects them. Those are grandparents or some close relatives and friends, and you know they had passed away and were in that graves.

Now, please answer the Poll, based on this event. Assume it happend

The term "Christ" is a title meaning the chosen one; it is a title like "lord". IOW anyone can hold the title Christ; it doesn't mean you are God, it doesn't mean you are super human in any way, it only means somebody has given you the title "Christ". In order for this person to convince me he is Christ, I would need to be told this by the people who gave him the title.

 

[viole]

No church is going to tell you that man created the gods and the dialogue professing who created the beliefs.

Really?

ciao

- viole

 

[CG Didymus]

Oh dear. Whilst I would love to spend time with long gone family and friends, I'd rather something useful was done...

End poverty and starvation
End childhood cancer
Stop wars
End inequality

Come down, do that and I may start to believe. Worship you though, now that's another matter.

Those are the very things that the Baha'i Faith says it will do... if given the chance. So, why don't so many people believe them?

 

[Heyo]

Those are the very things that the Baha'i Faith says it will do... if given the chance. So, why don't so many people believe them?

Because those are the pre-election promises. What the Baha'i Faith really is interested in, is getting into power - like any other religion.
How do I know? Ask a Baha'i if they are willing to work for the pretend goals without proselytising.

 

[danieldemol]

Because those are the pre-election promises. What the Baha'i Faith really is interested in, is getting into power - like any other religion.
How do I know? Ask a Baha'i if they are willing to work for the pretend goals without proselytising.

I'd just like to note that in my view you will find plenty of Baha'i willing to redefine the term proselytising then answer affirmatively that they don't proselytise knowing full well they are using a different definition to the standard one you are using - which i personally view as a form of dishonest semantics.

 

[danieldemol]

Then there's Noah. Who in the Bible goes through a great flood and only he and his family survive. But Baha'u'llah doesn't mention the flood, yet says, "Among the Prophets was Noah. For nine hundred and fifty years He prayerfully exhorted His people and summoned them to the haven of security and peace."

He may not explicitly refer to the flood, but I think he alludes to it.

He says, "Finally, as stated in books and 8 traditions, there remained with Him only forty or seventy-two of His followers. At last from the depth of His being He cried aloud: “Lord! Leave not upon the land a single dweller from among the unbelievers.” 4

Source: Bahá'í Reference Library - The Kitáb-i-Íqán, Pages 3-41

So the allusion is there to all non-believers being removed from the land, and since he does not appear to contradict the earlier flood story it seems reasonable to accept that he most probably believed it in my opinion.

ETA in a tablet Baha'u'llah makes reference to Noah's flood;

'“Noah’s flood is but the measure of the tears I have shed, and Abraham’s fire an ebullition of My soul. Jacob’s grief is but a reflection of My sorrows, and Job’s afflictions a fraction of My calamity.”

Source: Bahá'í Reference Library - Gems of Divine Mysteries (Javáhiru’l-Asrár), Pages 59-79

 

[Kjv1966]

Suppose, He comes down from Sky, and declairs He is Christ!

To prove it, He will take you, to some of your loved ones grave, and resurrects them. Those are grandparents or some close relatives and friends, and you know they had passed away and were in that graves.

Now, please answer the Poll, based on this event. Assume it happend

I voted no I would not believe. I refuse to assume it happened. That is the whole problem with religion, it is based not on facts but on ideas and thoughts. No one has actually seen any sort of god or higher-being. There is a reason that “Christ” has not been resurrected; there is no such thing as “Christ”. Sorry to burst ya’lls bubbles but whatever you have been spending your life dwelling on, living by, believing in is all made up stuff by guess who, a human! Why? To keep all the “sheep” in line. Funny how the Bible characters are mainly shepherds. Has no one ever put two and two together.?

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Such hypotheticals are really quite useless. I'll wait until it happens, and make up my mind then.

 

[Bthoth]

Really?

ciao

- viole

Please prove me wrong. I am aware of the 'wo to scribes and pharisee' as I do agree, the religious leaders will be judged harshly and the old writers will be condemned

 

[Kfox]

Those are the very things that the Baha'i Faith says it will do... if given the chance.?

So what's stopping it?

 

[McBell]

So what's stopping it?

Freewill?

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Freewill?

Are you sure free will exists?