Disbelievers in Islam answer please

[muhammad_isa]

Time is an aspect of the physical world..

Yes, it is .. but that is not the only thing it is.
i.e. a measurement

Human intuition is wrong about lots of things..

..and also right about a lot of things.
My intuition tells me, that the concept of God is an intelligent one.
..and one that makes a lot of sense .. sincere, honest people will triumph, eventually.

 

[ratiocinator]

Yes, it is .. but that is not the only thing it is.

Evidence?

..and also right about a lot of things.

Pays not to put too much confidence in it, nevertheless.

My intuition tells me, that the concept of God is an intelligent one.

Mine doesn't.

Regardless, my view on the matter is not based on intuition but on the complete lack of any reason (evidence or logic) to take the idea seriously.

..and one that makes a lot of sense ..

Doesn't make the slightest bit of sense to me, at least not any of the religious ideas of a good and just god who is at all interested in humanity.

.. sincere, honest people will triumph, eventually.

Not sure I see the relevance, nor am I quite that optimistic.

 

[ppp]

It is believed by many Muslims that Mohammad did a Miracle as said in the Quran:

Allah Split the Moon.

Suppose Allah had split the Moon, and He had left it split. It was still Split in half today, and when you looked at the Moon, you would see, a split Moon.

Would you still disbelieve in Islam?


If you still would not believe, explain why?

Muslims also believe that Allah created the Universe. The universe exists. That is not evidence that there is an extant Allah to have done the creating. Or the moon splitting. Or the duck quacking. Or anything else.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Muslims also believe that Allah created the Universe. The universe exists. That is not evidence that there is an extant Allah to have done the creating. Or the moon splitting. Or the duck quacking. Or anything else.

Our current science knows that a big bang happened and most scientists believe big bang is more or less a fact.
But no one knows why there was a big bang. I mean, the creation of the world is a mystery. We cannot deny God.

 

[ppp]

Our current science knows that a big bang happened and most scientists believe big bang is more or less a fact.
But no one knows why there was a big bang. I mean, the creation of the world is a mystery.

An Appeal to ignorance is also known as argument from ignorance, in which ignorance represents “a lack of contrary evidence” and becomes “a fallacy in informal logic.” It asserts that a proposition is true because it has not yet been proven as false.

Please stop doing that.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Evidence?

The progress we've made in the last 100 years in scientific understanding,
leads us to believe that 'the passing of time' is not straightforward.
i.e. on the quantum level, for example

..and the concept of relativity, poses more questions than it has answers too.
i.e. that 'the passing of time' is not absolute/linear

 

[ratiocinator]

The progress we've made in the last 100 years in scientific understanding...

Is what has shown that time as we intuitively think of it is wrong.

 

[ratiocinator]

Our current science knows that a big bang happened and most scientists believe big bang is more or less a fact.
But no one knows why there was a big bang. I mean, the creation of the world is a mystery. We cannot deny God.

The existence of an unknown does not give credence to any old story you'd like to believe about it.

 

[Little Dragon]

We only assume that time, as in the scientific definition, is somehow an absolute
definition of it.

We can make educated assumptions with good scientific models, ie, accurate ones.

 

[Little Dragon]

The word 'time' is unqualified until you qualify it..
..please do so .. please explain in words, and not equations.

Time, is a dimension, in which things can go forwards or backwards in.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Time, is a dimension, in which things can go forwards or backwards in.

..sounds like you are describing a video recorder.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

An Appeal to ignorance is also known as argument from ignorance, in which ignorance represents “a lack of contrary evidence” and becomes “a fallacy in informal logic.” It asserts that a proposition is true because it has not yet been proven as false.

Please stop doing that.

I dont see how that fallacy is applicable to my statements.

The existence of an unknown does not give credence to any old story you'd like to believe about it.

Perhaps it doesn't, but at the same time, one cannot say science disproves God.

 

[ppp]

I dont see how that fallacy is applicable to my statements.

Well..

Our current science knows that a big bang happened and most scientists believe big bang is more or less a fact.

Statement about science.

But no one knows why there was a big bang

Statement about ignorance regarding the universe

I mean, the creation of the world is a mystery.

Statement about ignorance regarding the world.

We cannot deny God.

Therefore, God is undeniable.


Two appeals to ignorance, and a conclusion of an extant god. That is an argument from ignorance fallacy.

 

[ratiocinator]

Perhaps it doesn't, but at the same time, one cannot say science disproves God.

You'd have to be specific about the god in question to know if the proposition can be disproved (by science or anything else). Science can and has disproved any god that magicked the world into existence 6000 years ago in six days, but more generally speaking science doesn't disprove many, many versions of god(s) and I'm not aware of many people who claim it does.

My dismissal of god(s) is simply due to having no good reason to take the ideas at all seriously, not on some scientific disproof.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

You'd have to be specific about the god in question to know if the proposition can be disproved (by science or anything else). Science can and has disproved any god that magicked the world into existence 6000 years ago in six days, but more generally speaking science doesn't disprove many, many versions of god(s) and I'm not aware of many people who claim it does.

My dismissal of god(s) is simply due to having no good reason to take the ideas at all seriously, not on some scientific disproof.

Well, that's understandable.

 

[Link]

Miracles can be sought from God whether you believe God exists or not. To not pray to God is arrogance.

Logically, there is no reason to believe God is incapable of revealing signs in form of miracle in any given time. If there is no leader you find right now performing these miracles, then it maybe there is a hidden leader. Not saying you to believe in either but to not ask God to show you these humbly and say "God if you exist, you can turn my heart from being rebellious towards you to submissive, and if you shown miracles in the past then show me them by some means so that I can attain certainty in you and your religion if you revealed a religion. Do your part and I pledge to be sincere towards you."... To not pray at all, and not seek to ready yourself for God's signs and guidance, is a huge injustice.

 

[Muffled]

How did you come to know his voice?

When I was thirteen I needed an answer from God, so I asked my question and waited for Him to answer. I was determined not to leave my place until I got one and I did.

 

[Muffled]

Usually there is a process of someone speaking which brings air molecules into vibration which then gets picked up by the eardrum, amplified by a set of bones and ultimately transformed into electro-chemical brainwaves.
There is also what is called an "inner voice" when people imagine their thoughts as speech.
In certain circumstances, e.g. when suffering from schizophrenia, people can't distinguish inner voice from external stimuli.

Exactly! The sound of a person speaking is received by the brain and yes I can speak to myself without making a sound.

 

[Muffled]

When you get use to how God uniquely talks you know what's from him. And his speech is not in the capability ignorant humans nor ignorant jinn for sure, rather it's of an exalted nature that when you get use to it's holy sacred exalted nature, you know it's from him. If anyone can make in on par, it would be his exalted servants, but they would never do such a thing.

I'm going to reveal a secret. I don't like talking about my spiritual states, but last Ramadan on laytal Qadr (23rd night), I felt Quran at a level I didn't think was possible. When the night was over, I couldn't recite it like that anymore. I couldn't feel it the same. It was the most glorious pleasurable feeling I ever had in my life. I could see the words at that night at a level that just went away after that night. Whole different level. I'm hoping next Ramadan I achieve that but this time hold on to it and let it pass over to the rest of the year. I don't know if that is even possible or that night holds a unique position that I can't transfer it to the rest of the year.

God's words are different when you perceive God to be holy and light.

If you actually know God's voice you would recognize it in the Bible.

 

[Yazata]

It is believed by many Muslims that Mohammad did a Miracle as said in the Quran:

Allah Split the Moon.

Suppose Allah had split the Moon, and He had left it split. It was still Split in half today, and when you looked at the Moon, you would see, a split Moon.

Would you still disbelieve in Islam?


If you still would not believe, explain why?

I would assume that there is some explanation for why the Moon seemingly cracked in two. And I would look first and foremost to science to discover that reason. (Did a large asteroid strike the Moon? Were lots of fragments ejected? (Is the Earth in danger of being struck by Moon fragments?)

Seventh century Arabic myth isn't the first place I would look for explanations for what (hypothetically) happened.