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Discrepancy 3: the death of Aaron

Matthew78

aspiring biblical scholar
The next alleged discrepancy I would like to discuss is the death of Aaron. Where did he die? Was it on Mt. Hor or was it in Moserah? In Numbers 33: 38-39, the location given is Mt. Hor. From the New American Standard Bible, we read:

"38 Then Aaron the priest went up to Mount Hor at the command of the Lord, and died there in the fortieth year after the sons of Israel had come from the land of Egypt, on the first day in the fifth month. 39 Aaron was one hundred twenty-three years old when he died on Mount Hor."

In Deuteronomy 10:6, we read of a different location. Again the New American Standard Bible states:

"6 (Now the sons of Israel set out from Beeroth Bene-jaakan to Moserah. There Aaron died and there he was buried and Eleazar his son ministered as priest in his place."

So, which is it? Mt. Hor or Moserah?
 

rusra02

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
The next alleged discrepancy I would like to discuss is the death of Aaron. Where did he die? Was it on Mt. Hor or was it in Moserah? In Numbers 33: 38-39, the location given is Mt. Hor. From the New American Standard Bible, we read:

"38 Then Aaron the priest went up to Mount Hor at the command of the Lord, and died there in the fortieth year after the sons of Israel had come from the land of Egypt, on the first day in the fifth month. 39 Aaron was one hundred twenty-three years old when he died on Mount Hor."

In Deuteronomy 10:6, we read of a different location. Again the New American Standard Bible states:

"6 (Now the sons of Israel set out from Beeroth Bene-jaakan to Moserah. There Aaron died and there he was buried and Eleazar his son ministered as priest in his place."

So, which is it? Mt. Hor or Moserah?

It is both. Apparently, Mount Hor is located in the area in ancient times called Moserah.
 

Matthew78

aspiring biblical scholar
It is both. Apparently, Mount Hor is located in the area in ancient times called Moserah.

Wow Rusra, this is the first time I have ever seen you actually attempt to harmonize two accounts rather than just assert that they can be harmonized. I am just a tad bit impressed :p.

But, unfortunately, your attempt at harmonization fails. Why? Well, because a very careful reading of Numbers 33 rules out your attempt. Let me show how:

In the NASB, Numbers 33: 5-39 is narrated like this:

"5 Then the sons of Israel journeyed from Rameses and camped in Succoth.

6 They journeyed from Succoth and camped in Etham, which is on the edge of the wilderness.

7 They journeyed from Etham and turned back to Pi-hahiroth, which faces Baal-zephon, and they camped before Migdol.

8 They journeyed from before Hahiroth and passed through the midst of the sea into the wilderness; and they went three days’ journey in the wilderness of Etham and camped at Marah.

9 They journeyed from Marah and came to Elim; and in Elim there were twelve springs of water and seventy palm trees, and they camped there.

10 They journeyed from Elim and camped by the Red Sea.

11 They journeyed from the Red Sea and camped in the wilderness of Sin.

12 They journeyed from the wilderness of Sin and camped at Dophkah.

13 They journeyed from Dophkah and camped at Alush.

14 They journeyed from Alush and camped at Rephidim; now it was there that the people had no water to drink.

15 They journeyed from Rephidim and camped in the wilderness of Sinai.

16 They journeyed from the wilderness of Sinai and camped at Kibroth-hattaavah.

17 They journeyed from Kibroth-hattaavah and camped at Hazeroth.

18 They journeyed from Hazeroth and camped at Rithmah.

19 They journeyed from Rithmah and camped at Rimmon-perez.

20 They journeyed from Rimmon-perez and camped at Libnah.

21 They journeyed from Libnah and camped at Rissah.

22 They journeyed from Rissah and camped in Kehelathah.

23 They journeyed from Kehelathah and camped at Mount Shepher.

24 They journeyed from Mount Shepher and camped at Haradah.

25 They journeyed from Haradah and camped at Makheloth.

26 They journeyed from Makheloth and camped at Tahath.

27 They journeyed from Tahath and camped at Terah.

28 They journeyed from Terah and camped at Mithkah.

29 They journeyed from Mithkah and camped at Hashmonah.

30 They journeyed from Hashmonah and camped at Moseroth.

31 They journeyed from Moseroth and camped at Bene-jaakan.

32 They journeyed from Bene-jaakan and camped at Hor-haggidgad.

33 They journeyed from Hor-haggidgad and camped at Jotbathah.

34 They journeyed from Jotbathah and camped at Abronah.

35 They journeyed from Abronah and camped at Ezion-geber.

36 They journeyed from Ezion-geber and camped in the wilderness of Zin, that is, Kadesh.

37 They journeyed from Kadesh and camped at Mount Hor, at the edge of the land of Edom.

38 Then Aaron the priest went up to Mount Hor at the command of the Lord, and died there in the fortieth year after the sons of Israel had come from the land of Egypt, on the first day in the fifth month.

39 Aaron was one hundred twenty-three years old when he died on Mount Hor."

Notice a few facts about this passage; first of all, a difference is made between small locations and the larger geographical region that these small locations may or may not be found in. Notice, for example, in verse 15, the Hebrews went from Rephidian and camped in the wilderness of Sinai. Rephidian is not located in the wilderness of Sinai but is located outside of it. Rephidian is a small location while the wilderness of Sinai is a larger region and is not some small location, kind of like a rest stop town on the side of a major U.S. highway. Notice that after leaving Hashmonah, they arrive at Moseroth (also known as Moserah) in verse 30 and then in the next verse, leave Moseroth and camp at Bene-jaakan. So then, after leaving Moseroth, they travel through five more locations, Bene-jaakan, Hor-haggidgad, Jotbathah, Abronah, and Ezion-geber, before camping in the wilderness of Zin (or Kadesh) and then travelling to Mt. Hor which is at the edge of the land of Edom. That makes it six locations, total, before reaching Mt. Hor.

So, in otherwords, Moserah is not located anywhere near Mt. Hor. Moserah and Moseroth are one and the same place, just like Mt. Sinai and Mr. Horeb are one and the same mountain that are known by two different names. Notice that there is a wilderness separating the fist five locations, the wilderness of Zin, and then, finally, Mt. Hor, which is located outside of the wilderness and is located on the border of Edom. If Mt. Hor was located in Moserah/Moseroth, then we can also say that the wilderness of Zin is also located in Moserah/Moseroth. We can also say, then, that Ezion-geber, Abronah, Jotbathah, Hor-haggidgad, and Bene-jaakan were also located in Moseroth/Moserah and why not even say that Moseroth/Moserah was located in Moseroth/Moserah?

Why can't we say, then, that Mt. Hor is located in the wilderness of Zin? Or that Mt. Hor is located in Ezion-geber? Or that it's located in Abronah? Or that it's located in Jotbathah? Or that it's located in Hor-gaggidgad or Bene-jaakan? The reason being is that all of these areas are distinct locations. It's not as though Mt. Hor is located in the wilderness of Zin and all of these other five locations are also located in the wilderness of Zin. No, all of the five locations from Moseroth/Moserah are located in a larger region that bordered the wilderness of Zin and Mt. Hor was located in another region that bordered the wilderness of Zin. So we can see that Mr. Hor was not located anywhere near Moseroth/Moserah.

This should be enough but with Christian believers in biblical inerrancy, overkill is often needed. So, let's do that. Let's take another look at Deuteronomy 10: 6-7. Again, the NASB states:

"6 (Now the sons of Israel set out from Beeroth Bene-jaakan to Moserah. There Aaron died and there he was buried and Eleazar his son ministered as priest in his place. 7 From there they set out to Gudgodah, and from Gudgodah to Jotbathah, a land of brooks of water...)

Notice the Hebrews went from (Beeroth) Bene-jaakan to Moserah, where Aaron dies, and then they travel from Moserah to Gudgodah, and from there to Jotbathah. This would mean that Moserah/Moseroth is somewhere between Bene-jaakan and Jotbathah. Furthermore, notice that in Numbers 33, they go from Bene-jaakan in verse 32 to Jotbathah in verse 33. But in Numbers 33, Moseroth comes before both Bene-jaakan and Jotbathah. In order to harmonize the sequence of the journey, we would have to believe that they went from Moseroth right to Mt. Hor where Aaron died, then went back to Bene-jaakan and proceeded from there to Jotbathah. Or did they go to Gudgodah first and then go to Jotbathah? In fact, why isn't Gudgodah mentioned in Numbers 33?

In fact, we would have to believe that they went from (Beeroth) Bene-jakaan all the way to Mt. Hor and then turned back where they were came from (for some strange reason). But this isn't what the text says at all. In fact, if they went to Mt. Hor where Aaron died, then why doesn't the text in Numbers 33 say that they turned back to Bene-jakaan or Jotbathah like the text does in verse 7 of Numbers 33. Verse 7 states:

"They journeyed from Etham and turned back to Pi-hahiroth, which faces Baal-zephon, and they camped before Migdol."

So Numbers 33 indicates where they went forward and where they turned back. But the text doesn't say that the Hebrews went directly from Bene-jaakan to Mt. Hor and then turned back so they could go to Gudgodah or Jotbatha. This very strongly indicates that Moseroth/Moserah and Mt. Hor are very two distinct locations and are nowhere near each other.

Thus the discrepancy stands!
 
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Union jack

Member
The daughters of Lot bore the fathers of Moab and Ammon subsequent to the death of Aaron. In that context Rusra02 maybe correct that the border of Moserah extended to the border of land of Edom.
 

Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
The next alleged discrepancy I would like to discuss is the death of Aaron. Where did he die? Was it on Mt. Hor or was it in Moserah? In Numbers 33: 38-39, the location given is Mt. Hor. From the New American Standard Bible, we read:

"38 Then Aaron the priest went up to Mount Hor at the command of the Lord, and died there in the fortieth year after the sons of Israel had come from the land of Egypt, on the first day in the fifth month. 39 Aaron was one hundred twenty-three years old when he died on Mount Hor."

In Deuteronomy 10:6, we read of a different location. Again the New American Standard Bible states:

"6 (Now the sons of Israel set out from Beeroth Bene-jaakan to Moserah. There Aaron died and there he was buried and Eleazar his son ministered as priest in his place."

So, which is it? Mt. Hor or Moserah?

mount hor is located in Moserah.

Just as the Grand Canyon is located in Los Vegas.
 

Matthew78

aspiring biblical scholar
The daughters of Lot bore the fathers of Moab and Ammon subsequent to the death of Aaron. In that context Rusra02 maybe correct that the border of Moserah extended to the border of land of Edom.

Huh? I don't know what the price of tea in China is these days and I don't understand how this would be relevant either.
 

Matthew78

aspiring biblical scholar
mount hor is located in Moserah.

Just as the Grand Canyon is located in Los Vegas.

The Grand Canyon is located in Los Vegas? :facepalm: That would be news to cartographers! Now, would you kindly explain how something in Arizona can be located in Nevada, especially when Arizona and Nevada are two separate states? What's next? Claiming that the Eiffel Tower is in Berlin, Germany? :D

Nevertheless, I know what you were trying to say. Rusra posted the same kind of response and I responded in detail to Rusra. So, why don't you answer my reponse to Rusra?
 

FirewithFire

New Member
Without knowing the geographic locations of either Mt Hor or Moserah, it is impossible to know whether or not this claim of errancy holds any truth. It could be said that "John Doe climbed to the peak of Mount Everest and there he died" and also "John Doe came to the land of Nepal where he died" and there isn't necessarily a discrepancy.

Also, since the book we know as "The Bible" is actually a compilation of works written over several millenia, finding an error in one work doesn't automatically discredit another (much less all of them). I am of the opinion that the Bible has quite a few errors; some due to meaning lost in translation, and some due to content included that should not be.
 

Matthew78

aspiring biblical scholar
Without knowing the geographic locations of either Mt Hor or Moserah, it is impossible to know whether or not this claim of errancy holds any truth. It could be said that "John Doe climbed to the peak of Mount Everest and there he died" and also "John Doe came to the land of Nepal where he died" and there isn't necessarily a discrepancy.

I don't see how this would be a problem. We may not and may never know the exact locations of these places on a map but the textual analysis I provided should be enough to know that Mt. Hor was not anywhere near Moseroth. If you care to argue differently, I invite you to do so :).

Also, since the book we know as "The Bible" is actually a compilation of works written over several millenia, finding an error in one work doesn't automatically discredit another (much less all of them).

I am not saying that it does. My argument, especially in the opening post, was that either one account or another (or possibly both) are in error.

I am of the opinion that the Bible has quite a few errors; some due to meaning lost in translation, and some due to content included that should not be.

Fair enough. I am curious as to what you think shouldn't have been included in the Bible.
 
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