discuss

[zenzero]

taken from 'A Sudden Clash of Thunder' by OSHO

Knowledge is a sort of ignorance. The word 'ignorance' is very beautiful. Split it in two --
it becomes 'ignor-ance'. Truth can be ignored. That's what ignorance is; otherwise, truth is
already present. Ignorance is nothing but ignoring the truth which is already there. And a
man of knowledge becomes more ignorant, because the more he thinks he knows, the
more he becomes capable of ignoring that which is. Lost in his theories, dogmas, creeds,
scriptures, he no longer has any eyes to look at the reality. Lost in words, verbalizations,
his vision is clouded. He cannot see that which is.

Discuss/comment.......

 

[Revoltingest]

I like it. Long ago I found the power of ignorance & distrusting
facts (which can get in the way of seeing & understanding).

Btw, good to see you again.

 

[zenzero]

Friend Revoltingest,

Thanks!
Since had never seeing it the way IGNORANCE has been discussed posted it.
Osho had a style of his own for explaining things beautifully.

Keep hoeing!
Love & rgds

 

[Iti oj]

And what id knowing is being.

 

[zenzero]

Friend Iti oj,

And what id knowing is being.

As there is no 'I' as such there is no one even to know anything.

Love & rgds

 

[Iti oj]

Friend Iti oj,


As there is no 'I' as such there is no one even to know anything.

Love & rgds

sorry dir incursion....though what/who is zen?

 

[Gjallarhorn]

Still don't like Osho.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Still don't like Osho.

Me either.

I don't regard him as a Zen Teacher in any formal sense but ok he dabbled a bit in Zen. That piece said, I honestly don't wish to derail Zenzeros thread, or put anybody off, so I'll check my personal bias at the door here....... *poof*

I will concur with the last paragraph that Zz pasted. True enough, and agreed, It does seem more immersion involving theories, dogmas and creeds it's rather easy to see over time how that can bring about varying levels of ignorance if not weighted with involved practices that Keep the feet on the ground so to speak.

IOw's. Theres lots to be said when the ethereal realm takes precedent over what actually is going on.

 

[Gjallarhorn]

I disagree with the quote on the grounds that it chastises knowledge for being knowledge.

Yes, zen doesn't deal with knowledge. It deals with direct awareness which defies understanding. But that's no reason to poo-poo science.

 

[DreadFish]

There's a difference between experience and ideas. I think this goes along with the concept of beginner's mind. Preconceived ideas can cloud our perception of things the way they are. Being completely honest about not knowing is a real relief and opens up to being able to better understand things.

 

[zenzero]

Friends,

Frankly did not wish to bring the name OSHO!
However being 'Ignorant'; should one not ignore that name too?
Bias is always created by the MIND and Zen is all about watching the mind and give show him the stick as soon as it raises any thought of any kind.

Love & rgds

 

[zenzero]

Friend Dreadfish,

There's a difference between experience and ideas. I think this goes along with the concept of beginner's mind. Preconceived ideas can cloud our perception of things the way they are. Being completely honest about not knowing is a real relief and opens up to being able to better understand things.

True however the point will be missed if the knower is still around.
Guess just being Present at the moment in totality concludes it all when the knower and the known is in oneness.

Love & rgds

 

[dyanaprajna2011]

Wasn't it Socrates who said something to the effect of "the more I learn, the less I know"? Our perceptions are clouded in ignorance, so our beliefs about reality are the same. What we think we know, oftentimes, we don't. This isn't to put down science, but that's only relative truth. Only Buddhas know anything absolute. The rest of us just speculate based on our level of enlightenment (or in my case, the lack thereof).

 

[zenzero]

Friend dyanaprajna,

Was pointing towards the fact that the knowing using the mind is limited since it is based on only what is seen but consciousness is beyond just seen through the eyes one sees through other faculties including the mind and consciousness transcends all that too.
From the experiences of human existence we find that though science as such has developed greatly but in turn those opening of new frontiers by science has opened up vast amounts of the unknown and that is unlimited so the saying "the more we learn, the less we know" by Ted Sheridan in a poem stands.
Lao Tsu himself has said this:

"To know that you do not know is the best."

Love & rgds

 

[Jeff Strehlow]

I agree that knowledge often makes people more deluded and out of touch with the real nature of things, when it causes attachment. But, knowledge itself is not a bad thing. If persons are knowledgable about gardening or how computers work, that doesn't make them deluded. It is simply having knowledge of certain cause and effect relationships. Even though Zen advocates living in the present, it acknowledges cause and effect. However cause and effect is seen as empty.

Being knowledgable about the Buddha Way doesn't make a Buddha or Bodhisattva deluded. If they teach the doctrine to others in ways that are helpful to them, and they are not attached to the doctrine they are teaching, that is not delusion. The doctrine should be seen as pointing or removing obstacles, not as a set of absolute truths.

 

[zenzero]

Friend Jeff Strehlow,

Thank you for your contribution.
Guess you have explained 'knowledge' well!

Love & rgds