Divine Intervention for Salvation

[chewauro]

Hello everyone,

Is it correct to say that in Buddhism, salvation lies in one's on actions, characterized by the following of the 5 Precepts and the 8 fold path. However, in Christianity, Salvation lies in Grace, which is God's prerogative. In Hindusim, the manifestaion of Krishna to convince Arjun to follow fuflil his Dharma is an act of Divine intervention. However, I am not very sure about Islam. Is there divine intervention for Salvation in Islam? Also, I would like to explore on how different sects among religions may differ in their means to salvation, and whether divine intervention plays a part.

Thank you all

 

[Quintessence]

Salvation is pretty much a non-concept in Pagan (Neo or otherwise) religions, so naturally there is no divine intervention on a non-existent matter.

 

[dyanaprajna2011]

For Islam, the Quran says that Allah guides those whom he wills.

As for Buddhism, since there is no reliance/belief in gods, there is no divine intervention. But you are mostly correct in saying that enlightenment comes from following the Five Precepts and the Noble Eightfold Path.

 

[Maya3]

Actually in Hinduism there is no salvation either.
You need to figure out and really understand and feel that you are part of God and always was. That's it.
You are not saved from anything.

Maya

 

[Willamena]

Salvation is pretty much a non-concept in Pagan (Neo or otherwise) religions, so naturally there is no divine intervention on a non-existent matter.

I doubt that. Salvation doesn't have to be a divine intervention. It is natural to fear death, to fear the loss of this consciousness that is so constant and terribly pleasant. Within that context, we rationalize reasons for why all this happens (birth, life, death) and images of a grander picture to make sense of it. Salvation is that idea which, here in life, gives us relief from the fear of death, be it a "reason for being" or an imagined resolution after life, or just an image of where we fit into the grand scheme of things.

 

[Quintessence]

Okay. Salvation as typically understood by most Westerners is a non-concept in Paganism Neo or otherwise). We don't need to be "saved" from anything because the natural world is not fundamentally evil/dirty/nasty/profane and there is no original sin. Even under the looser definition, it's iffy. Unless you consider simply accepting that death is a sacred force and a necessary part of existence "salvation." I wouldn't.

 

[Willamena]

Okay. Salvation as typically understood by most Westerners is a non-concept in Paganism Neo or otherwise). We don't need to be "saved" from anything because the natural world is not fundamentally evil/dirty/nasty/profane and there is no original sin. Even under the looser definition, it's iffy. Unless you consider simply accepting that death is a sacred force and a necessary part of existence "salvation." I wouldn't.

Salvation as typically understood by Western philosophy is that which relieves us from the fear of death within our personal and cultural worldviews. The promise of divine intervention serves that purpose for much of Christianity. That image you draw after the word "because" hints at what has saved you: I imagine something like an understanding of a return to nature or restoration in a worldly embrace. If, because of that, death is no longer a fearsome concept, then it is salvation.

 

[Quintessence]

Do you have a reference for this broader understanding of salvation? I'm honestly not familiar with it at all, because it's a far cry from how it comes up in typical conversation (and is why I said Neopaganism doesn't have a concept of it, because in the common understanding, it really doesn't).

 

[Willamena]

Do you have a reference for this broader understanding of salvation? I'm honestly not familiar with it at all, because it's a far cry from how it comes up in typical conversation (and is why I said Neopaganism doesn't have a concept of it, because in the common understanding, it really doesn't).

I suspect that "how it comes up in typical conversation" is ultimately associated with the so-called Abrahamic religions--eternal life with an external God. Right?

I read about the "broader understanding" in Luc Ferry's analysis of philosophical thought called 'A Brief History of Thought.' There he examines a number of key philosophers and traces a line of development for three key components of philosophical thought--theoria (theory), oria (ethics), and salvation--through their ideas to the present day. He shows how these three ideas present in each twist and turn that philosophy has taken since the Greek Stoics.

 

[idav]

Catholics and LDS to tend to put a bit more emphasis on works than other denominations. Buddhism could be viewed in terms of works but with the spirituality aspects it is in essence getting in touch with a "higher power" at which point grace might be a factor.

 

[Onkara]

Actually in Hinduism there is no salvation either.
You need to figure out and really understand and feel that you are part of God and always was. That's it.
You are not saved from anything.

Maya

Hi Maya
My opinion is one is saved from samsara. Ultimately it is a form of grace in my personal opinion.

Katha Upanishad 1-II-23. The Self cannot be attained by the study of the Vedas, not by intelligence nor by much hearing. Only by him who seeks to know the Self can It be attained. To him the Self reveals Its own nature.

1-III-7. But whoso is devoid of a discriminating intellect, possessed of an unrestrained mind and is ever impure, does not attain that goal, but goes to samsara.

Just for conversation sake

 

[Maya3]

Hi Maya
My opinion is one is saved from samsara. Ultimately it is a form of grace in my personal opinion.

Katha Upanishad 1-II-23. The Self cannot be attained by the study of the Vedas, not by intelligence nor by much hearing. Only by him who seeks to know the Self can It be attained. To him the Self reveals Its own nature.

1-III-7. But whoso is devoid of a discriminating intellect, possessed of an unrestrained mind and is ever impure, does not attain that goal, but goes to samsara.

Just for conversation sake

Sure, if you look at it like that then yes. But saved like in a Christian sense that you are sinful and can only be saved from Hell by an outside force like God or Jesus no.

Samsara is our own habits done over and over again, because we don't know who we are, so when we figure that out then we can let it go. But it is us who control it.

I like conversation, keep it coming

Maya

 

[Onkara]

Sure, if you look at it like that then yes. But saved like in a Christian sense that you are sinful and can only be saved from Hell by an outside force like God or Jesus no.

Samsara is our own habits done over and over again, because we don't know who we are, so when we figure that out then we can let it go. But it is us who control it.

I like conversation, keep it coming

Maya

Hi Maya
Why do you think God and Jesus are outside?

 

[Maya3]

Hi Maya
Why do you think God and Jesus are outside?

I don't think they are. But a lot of Christians say that Jesus and God is not the same as you and is separate from creation.

Maya