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Divorce

tarasan

Well-Known Member
What about same-sex marriage?

in a secular culture?

no i cannot force my religious view on anyone the bible says I can only judge what goes on inside my faith.

however if through the research i am doing, i find the evidence i need to say the bible states that modern homosexuality is ok, then within the christian culture i would strong discourage divorce, again though i cant make people not..


are you satisfied or has tarasan made a boo boo?:D
 

sunsplash

Freckled
Well, Mike, it's like this. Jesus went to great pains to prohibit divorce, or divorce except for adultery. It's clearly prohibited. Yet millions of Christians do it, and there is no movement to change the law to make it illegal.

Are there disciplinary actions in Protestant Christian churches like there are in the Catholic Church that excommunicates for divorce...or some other "threat" whether by church or God if there is divorce for reasons other than adultery? Or do non-Catholic Christians get a "get out of jail free" card, so to speak??
 

Just_me_Mike

Well-Known Member
It's amazing, a real shock and disappointment. It's almost as though those vociferous opponents of gay rights and gay marriage don't really care about the Bible at all, they're just a bunch of stinking hypocrites who only read the Bible when it applies to someone else. That can't be right, can it? Didn't Jesus say something about that?
Was that in response to my post?
 

McBell

Unbound
In my understanding of the bible, The only acceptable divorce is if someone in the marriage commits adultery. Though I'm against laws saying no divorce, because divorce can help abused people escape from their abusive partners.

Well, Mike, it's like this. Jesus went to great pains to prohibit divorce, or divorce except for adultery.

Seems that the problem here is that you are both not entirely accurate...
The Bible says that except for "fornication"...
Now we really needs take a looksie at how the BIBLE defines 'fornication':
FORNICA'TION, n. [L. fornicatio.]
1. The incontinence or lewdness of unmarried persons, male or female; also, the criminal conversation of a married man with an unmarried woman.
2. Adultery. Mat 5.
3. Incest. 1 Cor 5.
4. Idolatry; a forsaking of the true God, and worshipping of idols. 2 Chr 21. Rev 19.​
 

Autodidact

Intentionally Blank
in a secular culture?

no i cannot force my religious view on anyone the bible says I can only judge what goes on inside my faith.

however if through the research i am doing, i find the evidence i need to say the bible states that modern homosexuality is ok, then within the christian culture i would strong discourage divorce, again though i cant make people not..


are you satisfied or has tarasan made a boo boo?:D

Sounds good to me. I don't think this thread is about you.
 

Tiapan

Grumpy Old Man
I don't think it matters these days. The concept of nuclear family, permanent partners, children's harmonious upbringing, has changed in the modern era.

When we started as children, we find our selves in an egocentric world where our parents protect us from the real world. As we grow older and reach puberty, hormones kick in that change our focus and drive. Reaching the breeding age, the nesting instinct, social responsibility for the male, we form pairs, have sex and breed the next generation. When life expectancy is low, infant mortality high, you breed prolifically to counter the inevitable losses. The society developed the marriage bit. Bloke goes out hunter gathering, woman stays home/shelter a continuously pregnant baby factory. Husband usually short lived from dangerous occupation. All this essential to the group societies continuation.

Having had a couple of children in my time it was interesting to note the perspective change that accompanied it. Initially as a hedonistic western youth the world revolved around me, I did what I wanted. Getting married seemed like a social custom you do when you hook up with another hedonist. Then the breeding occurs one partner is no longer earning money, I have to work harder, friends disappear. focus changes to baby. Then you notice that an entirely new hidden aspect of life, invisible during the hedonistic stage manifests it self. It is as if we are never really individuals, instead we are halves, continually looking for our other half. Some find it and form the "one" ie a MF pair. (Although it seems sterile MM and FF are available today). This "one" then breeds accompanied by change of focus priorities and friends. The nurturing home environment is a priority for child rearing. So we can get a few children on the way before we drop dead or are killed.

Today we have long life expectancies, low infant mortality, the emphasis for nuclear family has disappeared. Children are brought up commercially by creche, both parents have to work to make ends meet, women through contraception that works, choose and decide their own breeding program.

The whole ball park has changed. I think the breeding phase needs the cohesion of the "one" pair with as much child parent interaction as possible. but once they have left the nest, is all that structure really necessary, should we all divorce and try different relationships, some fun with others after years of monogamous relationship during child raising. If not why not?

As you get older sex loses its interest, no longer a dominating driving influence, it becomes a minor component, where good company and intellectual discussion is just as stimulating. Whilst we all dream of trashing about with a beauty queen or prince charming the reality is sex is basically pretty much the same, if you close your eyes, hot, wet, sweaty and often boring. Although some are definitely more accomplished than others in this variation of gymnastics.

Eventually we become old and decrepit so the chances of picking up a new "Chickie babe" are pretty limited. The ones who will care are your children and the other half of your "one" pair.

So we live in an age which has phases that were unavailable, unknown when the religious texts were written. Longer life, low infant mortality, the pill, a health system and medicine where never around back then.

Given all this I would recommend a new phase to life - break free and explore new relations after the breeding phase. lets have mandatory divorce at 45, if you are real keen you can marry your own partner again, or move on and have fun. The main problem with this is that the person you tie up with, brings their own baggage with them into the relationship, often as bad or worse than that you believe you are breaking free of, so is it all worth it.

My point is given the changed social circumstances, is it now permissible to become polyamorous later in life after the stringent monogamous breeding phase? Afterall what great man did not have a mistress or two. Is Jane Austins rule of thumb correct, that a women should be half a mans age plus 7?

Cheers
 
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Muffled

Jesus in me
It's amazing, a real shock and disappointment. It's almost as though those vociferous opponents of gay rights and gay marriage don't really care about the Bible at all, they're just a bunch of stinking hypocrites who only read the Bible when it applies to someone else. That can't be right, can it? Didn't Jesus say something about that?

I see that you have managed to reach a new low. Doesn't it get a little hot down there?

Divorce leads to people being single which is a perfectly legitimate state. Homosexuality is never a legitimate state and marriage can't legitimize it. However to make homosexual marriage legal is to recognize it as legitimate. A Christian in good conscience can't do that. Divorce although not a good thing (a sin) is legitimate in the Bible.
 
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averageJOE

zombie
I see that you have managed to reach a new low. Doesn't it get a little hot down there?

Divorce leads to people being single which is a perfectly legitimate state. Homosexuality is never a legitimate state and marriage can't legitimize it. However to make homosexual marriage legal is to recognize it as legitimate. A Christian in good conscience can't do that. Divorce although not a good thing (a sin) is legitimate in the Bible.
So your answer is "Because the bible says so"?
 

Kathryn

It was on fire when I laid down on it.
I think people should stay out of the business of judging other people's actions and relationships (or lack thereof) with God, and let consenting adults manage their own lives - as long as their lives don't infringe on the rights of others.

And this indictment of judgmentalism goes in every direction - just for the record.
 

tumbleweed41

Resident Liberal Hippie
I see that you have managed to reach a new low. Doesn't it get a little hot down there?
Thermodynamics lesson, heat rises. Unless of course you are insinuating that Auto has reached the depths of the Christian Hell.

Divorce leads to people being single which is a perfectly legitimate state. Homosexuality is never a legitimate state and marriage can't legitimize it. However to make homosexual marriage legal is to recognize it as legitimate. A Christian in good conscience can't do that. Divorce although not a good thing (a sin) is legitimate in the Bible.
Are you suggesting that a broken family and single parenthood is preferable to a stable two parent household? Is that more "legitimate" in your world?
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
Are there disciplinary actions in Protestant Christian churches like there are in the Catholic Church that excommunicates for divorce...or some other "threat" whether by church or God if there is divorce for reasons other than adultery? Or do non-Catholic Christians get a "get out of jail free" card, so to speak??

The wages of sin is death. No-one escapes.

There isn't a penalty system of which I am aware. A brother in sin is to be exhorted to change his ways. However divorce is legitimate and the person is under grace. I would think this would be true also of a homosexual even though his acts aren't legitimate. If on the other hand the person says "I have not sinned and need no salvation" or the church should accept my sin" such a person has no portion with the saved and should be disfellowshipped (The Protestant version of excommunication).
 

Kathryn

It was on fire when I laid down on it.
By the way, I believe that an indepth study of biblical principles and teachings affords the option of divorce for adultery, abuse, and abandonment in some cases - but that's probably a topic for another thread.

As a divorced and remarried (and fairly devout) Christian who is serious about my faith, I've done a lot of research on the topic of divorce and remarriage. If there's enough interest, I'll start a thread on the topic.

However, this clearly isn't the thread to discuss it, since it's stepped out of it's closet and been "outted" as a manipulative, trollish thread.

I also don't care much for the tone - but hey, that's just me.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
I think people should stay out of the business of judging other people's actions and relationships (or lack thereof) with God, and let consenting adults manage their own lives - as long as their lives don't infringe on the rights of others.

And this indictment of judgmentalism goes in every direction - just for the record.

Evidently God hasn't accepted your message that He should run the universe on your opinion.
 

MysticSang'ha

Big Squishy Hugger
Premium Member
Evidently God hasn't accepted your message that He should run the universe on your opinion.

This post wins my Smug and Cavalier Award for the day.

Kathryn has her own relationship with her God. Who are you to judge what God hears from her and what he doesn't hear?

Sheesh....
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
Thermodynamics lesson, heat rises. Unless of course you are insinuating that Auto has reached the depths of the Christian Hell.


Are you suggesting that a broken family and single parenthood is preferable to a stable two parent household? Is that more "legitimate" in your world?

Children who do not have a natural mother and father are in a broken family. It is not the best situation but often it is a reality that can't be helped. In case you haven't figured out the biology, homosexuals do not produce natural children from their union.

Stability is good for children, sin is not.

I wouldn't go so far as to say he has gone that far but any scientist can tell you the further down you go in the earths crust the hotter it gets until you reach a point where there is enough heat to melt rock.
 
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tumbleweed41

Resident Liberal Hippie
The wages of sin is death. No-one escapes.

There isn't a penalty system of which I am aware. A brother in sin is to be exhorted to change his ways. However divorce is legitimate and the person is under grace. I would think this would be true also of a homosexual even though his acts aren't legitimate. If on the other hand the person says "I have not sinned and need no salvation" or the church should accept my sin" such a person has no portion with the saved and should be disfellowshipped (The Protestant version of excommunication).

Let me get this straight. If a Christian knowingly continues to live a life of sin, such as living in the forbidden condition of a homosexual intimate relationship, then they are to be disfellowshipped. It is for this reason that many Christians reject any legal notion of legitimized homosexual marriage.

However, if a man were to divorce his wife, and remarry, in clear violation of the commandment given by Jesus in Luke 16:18, "Everyone who divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery, and he who marries a woman divorced from her husband commits adultery", and he continues in this happy relationship for the rest of his life, there is no outcry? Even though, just like the homosexual couple, he continues to live in a sinful relationship? As described directly by Jesus?
As the OP suggests, where is the public outcry against the remarriage of divorced individuals? Where is the churches disfellowship?

If all sins are equal, why is the sin of legitimized adultery more acceptable than the sin of legitimized homosexuality?
 

tumbleweed41

Resident Liberal Hippie
Children who do not have a natural mother and father are in a broken family. It is not the best situation but often it is a reality that can't be helped. In case you haven't figured out the biology, homosexuals do not produce natural children from their union.

Stability is good for children, sin is not.
So you ignore the studies showing children of committed homosexual couples fare better than the children of broken heterosexual homes.
All in the name of 'sin'.
 

Just_me_Mike

Well-Known Member
It is strange to me, I introduce the fact that the word "except" should have and can be translated "even", not a single Christian is interested in exploring the validity of that claim. If I were a Christian spouting my mouth I would be interested in that because it totally changes the doctrine of divorce in the NT. As usual, tradition wins out over truth.
 
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