Do aliens exist?

[adi2d]

You are stating this as fact, You cannot just state extraordinary claims as fact and not back it up.

Good thing noone would EVER do that here at RF

 

[Parsimony]

If you want to believe in aliens visiting Earth, then by all means continue believing. It doesn't bother me if people hold that conviction. For me, however, I need more than that.

*Anecdotal evidence presented to me by other people without hard evidence to back it up remains nothing more than anecdotal evidence.
*Photographs and videos of UFOs can and have been faked.
*People can and do lie.
*People can and do mistake common things for extraordinary things.
*Mental states and hallucinations similar in properties to alien abductions exist (including self-induced out-of-body experiences).
*The physical descriptions of aliens vary from person to person and era to era.
*The aliens look too human for me to be convinced that they evolved on a different planet.

Taking all of this into account, I cannot consider the evidence for interplanetary aliens as anything more than suggestive. If you want to convince me, then give me something concrete that cannot logically be interpreted in any way other than to invoke technological aliens. Physical evidence would be preferred.

 

[Penumbra]

As Americans we always portray aliens as being technologically advanced for some reason with no justification for this notion. This is why I heavily loved Ridley Scott's portrayal for the Xenomorphs in the movie Alien and Prometheus.

Not always, it depends on the actual description.

For claims of extra terrestrial visitation to Earth, if such things were to be true (which I am very unconvinced) they almost by definition must be far more technologically advanced than humans, since they apparently have a means to travel long distances in space. Unless their technology somehow progressed to advanced space travel without corresponding advances in other areas, which sounds pretty impossible, or unless their species evolved a biological means for space travel, which seems really, really hard, considering the harshness of space in terms of radiation and temperature (and if they did, it would probably be like, dormant spores or something).

I think if there is ever to be life found outside of Earth, it will probably be humans finding evidence of low-level life from some moon or from some extra-solar planet. If a fraction of stars have habitable planets, and a fraction of those planets develop life, and a fraction of that life eventually becomes sapient, and a fraction of that sapient life becomes a spare-faring species without destroying itself with war or pollution first, then it would look something like a pyramid, with more and more advanced life less and less common in the universe than single-cell or more primitive life.

 

[Sha'irullah]

Not always, it depends on the actual description.

For claims of extra terrestrial visitation to Earth, if such things were to be true (which I am very unconvinced) they almost by definition must be far more technologically advanced than humans, since they apparently have a means to travel long distances in space. Unless their technology somehow progressed to advanced space travel without corresponding advances in other areas, which sounds pretty impossible, or unless their species evolved a biological means for space travel, which seems really, really hard, considering the harshness of space in terms of radiation and temperature (and if they did, it would probably be like, dormant spores or something).

I think if there is ever to be life found outside of Earth, it will probably be humans finding evidence of low-level life from some moon or from some extra-solar planet. If a fraction of stars have habitable planets, and a fraction of those planets develop life, and a fraction of that life eventually becomes sapient, and a fraction of that sapient life becomes a spare-faring species without destroying itself with war or pollution first, then it would look something like a pyramid, with more and more advanced life less and less common in the universe than single-cell or more primitive life.

That is exactly what I am not referring to. I am just speaking of the general existence of alien life not whether or no they make contact with us. This is why I brought up the Alien film series since in that cinematic gold nugget it portrayed a scenario where we as humans made first contact. That is why I specifically brought it up
Although perhaps you never saw the film.............SO GO SEE IT NOW!

 

[Penumbra]

That is exactly what I am not referring to. I am just speaking of the general existence of alien life not whether or no they make contact with us. This is why I brought up the Alien film series since in that cinematic gold nugget it portrayed a scenario where we as humans made first contact. That is why I specifically brought it up
Although perhaps you never saw the film.............SO GO SEE IT NOW!

I saw the movie.

Did you see Prometheus, which is basically a prequel to Alien, set in the same universe?

It's not really a spoiler, 'cause it's in like the first scene, but

Spoiler: Prometheus

Aliens made contact first. Way before. With technology.

 

[ResistETIntervention]

*Anecdotal evidence presented to me by other people without hard evidence to back it up remains nothing more than anecdotal evidence.

Skeptics use the term “anecdotal evidence” as if they are the final words that should shut people up about UFO sightings and even abduction experiences. They use the term as if demanding non-anecdotal evidence from people makes themselves appear quite intelligent. On the contrary, disregarding “anecdotal evidence” from people who have sighted UFOs or claim to have been abducted indicates their ignorance.

Do they expect people to fly after UFOs speeding away at superluminal speeds to take crisp clear photos of the spaceships with their cell phones?

Neil Degrasse Tyson, a prominent astrophysicist quite respected in his field, even arrogantly and cruelly snickered and joked about abductees, saying that they should grab a piece of souvenir from the spaceship as hard physical evidence the next time they get abducted. His ignorance regarding the abduction phenomenon and callousness about the abductees are mindboggling. Does he seriously expect abductees who become immobilized by their extraterrestrial abductors and/or whose memories are suppressed by them to “grab a souvenir from the spaceship the NEXT time they get abducted”?

In this manner, abductees’ lives are distraught not only by extraterrestrial abductors against whom they feel powerless, but also by their fellow human beings that mock and ridicule them instead of delving into the issues sincerely or at least, having sympathy for the physical, mental, and/or psychological trauma they suffer from their abduction experiences.

Anecdotal evidences are absolutely important given that they have been carrying out their activities surreptitiously, and that the extraterrestrials have more advanced technology than human beings in addition to possessing the abilities to manipulate thoughts, suppress memories, induce abductees to behave in manners against their will,…..

Yet, there are evidences that are not merely anecdotal. Despite ridicules, some researchers have dedicated their lives to seek the truth behind this elusive phenomenon that persist despite all the mockeries surrounding it.

[youtube]ONo2u4FVg0A[/youtube]

*Photographs and videos of UFOs can and have been faked.

Yes, they have been. Yet, there have also been photographs and videos of UFOs that professionals have determined not to have been manipulated and thus, authentic. Here, again, I suggest try considering more concrete evidences.

*People can and do lie.

Yes, people can and do lie. In my attempt to raise awareness of the phenomenon, I spoke with about a thousand people on the street and elsewhere. It doesn’t seem to be an odd coincidence that about 10 to 20% of the people I spoke with have sighted UFOs or know of others who have, since a national statistics also claimed that at least 10% of the population has had sightings. They would tell me about their own experiences or experiences of others. One worried person even told me about his girlfriend’s abduction experiences on multiple occasions. Among that many people, one person lied about having sighted UFOs. An immature college student who thought it was funny to make a joke about it, not realizing what dark forces are looming over the world attempting to take control of it and what fate lies ahead for her, her loved ones, and indeed, for the entire human race.

*People can and do mistake common things for extraordinary things.

Sure, with all that people know now, millions of modern people perhaps suddenly developed stupidity and confuse birds or airplanes for UFOs. One of the people I spoke with on the street asked me whether I didn’t mistake a bird for a UFO. I asked him whether he thought a bird could radiate a brilliant spot of light in the sky, and then disappear at a superluminal speed leaving a trail of white light after it. He hurriedly went away.

*Mental states and hallucinations similar in properties to alien abductions exist (including self-induced out-of-body experiences).

I’m not familiar with out-of-body experiences. Yet, I doubt so many people including children could self-induce such experiences. It is highly unlikely. Have you tried reading “Taken” by Karla Turner? I do not know if some of the abduction episodes are induced through the mental environment, but these certainly don’t explain physical implants or anomalous bruises or scars that appear overnight in the bodies of abductees or abductees that are returned sometimes with underwear that do not belong to them or clothes worn backwards, and so on. There have been cases in which babies were found sleeping outside their cribs or children were found sleeping in different beds. Try reading “The Aliens and the Scalpel” by Dr. Roger Leir.

*The physical descriptions of aliens vary from person to person and era to era.

Yes, thus, indicating that there are many races even in the local universe. Indeed, various races of extraterrestrials have been visiting the world for different purposes. The Extraterrestrial Intervention that has been occurring at a global scale in the past few decades or so since the Hiroshima atomic bomb exploded, however, is here with the specific goal of taking control of the world. There are several different collectives, each consisting of several different extraterrestrial races, among the ET Intervention that is “visiting” our world currently.

*The aliens look too human for me to be convinced that they evolved on a different planet.

If you are speaking of human foreigners from different nations, you know very well that you have veered off the topic.

Taking all of this into account, I cannot consider the evidence for interplanetary aliens as anything more than suggestive. If you want to convince me, then give me something concrete that cannot logically be interpreted in any way other than to invoke technological aliens. Physical evidence would be preferred.

My suggestion is for you to search and convince yourself, or provide strong hard physical evidence that those erratically behaving aerial objects are not spaceships engineered and maneuvered by extraterrestrials.

 

[Parsimony]

Skeptics use the term “anecdotal evidence” as if they are the final words that should shut people up about UFO sightings and even abduction experiences. They use the term as if demanding non-anecdotal evidence from people makes themselves appear quite intelligent. On the contrary, disregarding “anecdotal evidence” from people who have sighted UFOs or claim to have been abducted indicates their ignorance.

I'm concerned that you might be making some assumptions about me that are untrue. I don't make fun of abductees or people who say that they have seen UFOs. I do believe that many of them are indeed distraught because they believe what has happened to them was real. It could see be an example of a currently-unknown mental state similar to night-terrors or hallucinations. As I have stated before, I believe that it is possible that this could be happening. I am not, however, convinced that it is happening.

Do they expect people to fly after UFOs speeding away at superluminal speeds to take crisp clear photos of the spaceships with their cell phones?

You do realize that there is no hard evidence that superluminal travel is even possible, right?

Neil Degrasse Tyson, a prominent astrophysicist quite respected in his field, even arrogantly and cruelly snickered and joked about abductees, saying that they should grab a piece of souvenir from the spaceship as hard physical evidence the next time they get abducted. His ignorance regarding the abduction phenomenon and callousness about the abductees are mindboggling. Does he seriously expect abductees who become immobilized by their extraterrestrial abductors and/or whose memories are suppressed by them to “grab a souvenir from the spaceship the NEXT time they get abducted”?

In this manner, abductees’ lives are distraught not only by extraterrestrial abductors against whom they feel powerless, but also by their fellow human beings that mock and ridicule them instead of delving into the issues sincerely or at least, having sympathy for the physical, mental, and/or psychological trauma they suffer from their abduction experiences.

Doesn't apply to me, as I don't insult abductees. Some of them, no doubt, seem to fully believe in what has happened to them and for that reason I have sympathy for their suffering. However, that doesn't necessarily mean that it was something that happened in objective, physical reality. Night terrors, hallucinations and probably other things about our brains that we have yet to learn of can alter our perceptions.

Anecdotal evidences are absolutely important given that they have been carrying out their activities surreptitiously, and that the extraterrestrials have more advanced technology than human beings in addition to possessing the abilities to manipulate thoughts, suppress memories, induce abductees to behave in manners against their will,…..

I disagree. If we have to accept extreme claims based on anecdotal evidence then we'd have to believe other things that are unproven as well (the Loch Ness monster, the Halifax slasher, leprechauns, ghosts, reincarnation, etc.).

Yet, there are evidences that are not merely anecdotal. Despite ridicules, some researchers have dedicated their lives to seek the truth behind this elusive phenomenon that persist despite all the mockeries surrounding it.

[youtube]ONo2u4FVg0A[/youtube]

...and where exactly is the hard evidence in that video?

Yes, they have been. Yet, there have also been photographs and videos of UFOs that professionals have determined not to have been manipulated and thus, authentic. Here, again, I suggest try considering more concrete evidences.

Doesn't really prove anything, as film analysts can make mistakes as well. It's also possible that we have some clever hoaxers that know how to make a convincing fake. Even not considering that, an unexplained object in a photo is still just an unexplained object in a photo. If you can supply concrete evidence, then please do.

Yes, people can and do lie. In my attempt to raise awareness of the phenomenon, I spoke with about a thousand people on the street and elsewhere. It doesn’t seem to be an odd coincidence that about 10 to 20% of the people I spoke with have sighted UFOs or know of others who have, since a national statistics also claimed that at least 10% of the population has had sightings. They would tell me about their own experiences or experiences of others. One worried person even told me about his girlfriend’s abduction experiences on multiple occasions. Among that many people, one person lied about having sighted UFOs. An immature college student who thought it was funny to make a joke about it, not realizing what dark forces are looming over the world attempting to take control of it and what fate lies ahead for her, her loved ones, and indeed, for the entire human race.

When it comes to an extreme claim, you'd still need to demonstrate that the person in question isn't lying. Passing a polygraph would be a start. I don't think that everyone is lying about it. Regardless, there are still other rational avenues of thought that need to be ruled out first.

Sure, with all that people know now, millions of modern people perhaps suddenly developed stupidity and confuse birds or airplanes for UFOs. One of the people I spoke with on the street asked me whether I didn’t mistake a bird for a UFO. I asked him whether he thought a bird could radiate a brilliant spot of light in the sky, and then disappear at a superluminal speed leaving a trail of white light after it. He hurriedly went away.[/FONT]

Nobody would think that a luminous UFO would be a bird anyway. That's not to say there isn't another explanation. Ball lightning comes to mind. At any rate, an unknown light in the sky does not automatically equate to aliens. I do know that Venus has been mistaken for a UFO many times.

I’m not familiar with out-of-body experiences. Yet, I doubt so many people including children could self-induce such experiences. It is highly unlikely. Have you tried reading “Taken” by Karla Turner? I do not know if some of the abduction episodes are induced through the mental environment, but these certainly don’t explain physical implants or anomalous bruises or scars that appear overnight in the bodies of abductees or abductees that are returned sometimes with underwear that do not belong to them or clothes worn backwards, and so on. There have been cases in which babies were found sleeping outside their cribs or children were found sleeping in different beds. Try reading “The Aliens and the Scalpel” by Dr. Roger Leir.

OBE doesn't have to be induced intentionally. It can happen spontaneously. I know of one report where it happened when a guy was riding his motorcycle. In terms of implants, bruises, scars, strange locations and strange clothes, all of that can be faked. When you are talking about something as extraordinary as technological aliens coming to Earth and taking humans, you have to have something that can't logically be faked. Implants are often found to be little more than chunks of metal or other debris.

Yes, thus, indicating that there are many races even in the local universe. Indeed, various races of extraterrestrials have been visiting the world for different purposes. The Extraterrestrial Intervention that has been occurring at a global scale in the past few decades or so since the Hiroshima atomic bomb exploded, however, is here with the specific goal of taking control of the world. There are several different collectives, each consisting of several different extraterrestrial races, among the ET Intervention that is “visiting” our world currently.

Including one that looks almost exactly like humans (the Nordics). How exactly do you get something like that from evolution of another planet?

If you are speaking of human foreigners from different nations, you know very well that you have veered off the topic.

I think you knew very well that I wasn't speaking of human immigrants. I'm talking about the greys, reptilians, Nordics, etc. Standing upright on two legs, having two arms with hands equipped with opposable thumbs. Looking at the sheer diversity of life on Earth, I find it hard to swallow that beings on a different planet would evolve to look so much like us.

 

[Parsimony]

My suggestion is for you to search and convince yourself,

I've been looking at the evidence since I was in grade school and I am now 28. Pretty much any time there was a documentary on about aliens, I made sure to watch it. I own several books about the subject. I research it on the Internet. I still haven't found anything undeniably concrete. I find it funny how you say I need to "convince" myself. A better thing to do is to be open-minded to the possibility of it either existing or not existing. Trying to make yourself believe in something when you don't currently have sufficient evidence to believe would be biased.

or provide strong hard physical evidence that those erratically behaving aerial objects are not spaceships engineered and maneuvered by extraterrestrials.

Sorry, but it's not on the skeptics to prove the claimants wrong. It's on the claimants to prove themselves right. Imagine if someone told you that they are followed by an invisible unicorn that only they can interact with. It'd be up to that person to prove what they said is true, not up to you to prove that their unicorn friend doesn't exist. Once again, I've already said that I'm agnostic on the subject and that I think they could be alien spaceships. I just don't think I have sufficient evidence to go that far.

Take a look at my last post in UFO/ET phenomenon. I explained there why we don't have enough evidence to conclude that we are being visited physical aliens: http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/paranormal-activities/144903-ufo-et-phenomenon-11.html

 

[steelygreye]

Well, I think it'd be pretty impossible for there NOT to be other lifeforms out there. It doesn't even sound crazy. There are so many planets out there, and with the knowledge that there are creatures in the deepest parts of the ocean that exist independently of the sun (doing something like photosynthesis, but with chemicals), it makes it even more likely. Cause that means life can exist on a planet that is completely different from Earth.

 

[Parsimony]

I thought of another possibility today that might explain some of the weird factors that some people may associate with alien abductions (finding their clothes changed or being locked outside with no memory): sleepwalking. In 2012, a study was conducted which indicated that 3.7% of American adults exhibit sleepwalking two or more times per month. Given that the population of the United States is over 313 million, that would make over 11 million people susceptible to the condition. Although it can indicate a psychological problem, it doesn't in most cases.

Sleepwalkers can perform complex tasks that one would normally only associate with a conscious person. They are, however, sometimes not very coherent. That being said, a sleepwalker could conceivably change their clothes but put them on backwards or walk out of the house and lock the door behind them. They often do no remember their actions once they awaken. If the sleepwalker in question already had a belief in alien abduction, they might tie their sleepwalking experience back to that idea in order to explain it. Interestingly, alien abduction is said to run in families, and sleepwalking runs in families too. Even if it isn't the explanation in all cases, it might still explain some.

Here is a very good example that I just found posted (I don't know how the mods feel about linking to other forums, so feel free to remove the link if you think it breaks the rules): UFO Casebook

Hello, Ive posted something about this before, but thought I would try again..

I was just wondering if any of you can relate..

When I was a child I would sleepwalk pretty frequently. My parents would wake to find me in different rooms of our house and would sometimes find bruises on me...like a half circle bruise on my forehead (from the door knob at the front door.. ) and little things like that. Later on, there were a few times that my parents would wake up to me standing over their bed, just staring at them. None of this really sparked my interest at all. I related it to childhood stuff and the moreso negative relationship between my father and I. Later, when I was about 12 or 13 I went through a period of terrible fright in my room.. felt like someone was watching me, etc. At this time I would also wake up pretty frequently with all of my clothes (shirt, shorts, and underclothes) turned inside out and backwards.. all of them. One of these times, my mom heard something at the front door and found me outside on the front porch with a t shirt and no shorts on.. I did have underclothes on though. This has always stuck out to me as weird and, although I have a skeptical mind, it has always struck me as odd. The sleepwalking thing, I get.. but the clothes thing was just weird. My parents didnt really know what to make of it.
Other than that, I have no memories of anything or anyone, just that feeling of needing to do something..that urgency and anxiety of not knowing what it is.
Has anyone experienced the clothes thing??

Here we have a case of a confirmed sleepwalker who exhibited both the clothing anomalies and going outside. She has no memories of anything alien, so I think it's fair to say that her experience was all down to sleepwalking. She just walked outside on her own and changed her clothes on her own. Interestingly, we find the unexplained marks (bruises) on her body similar to those reported in abductees. I suspect she just bumped into things while sleepwalking.

 

[solowery]

My belief is there is life out there on another planet somewhere, I'm not saying I think they have been here but I'm not discounting it either. What I am saying is that I don't think we know the whole plan or are meant to.