Do Atheists claiming truthiness on predetermined view?

[Indagator]

I mean there is no free will or consciousness in Atheism (the absence of belief in the existence of supernatural) since according to them everything is material/physical. So how can they claim that their view is true if it was predetermined?

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Not all materialists are hard deterministic, nor do they not believe in consciousness. Just consciousness arising through the physical structure of the brain.

 

[Brickjectivity]

I mean there is no free will or consciousness in Atheism (the absence of belief in the existence of supernatural) since according to them everything is material/physical. So how can they claim that their view is true if it was predetermined?

No I think actually most atheists are agnostic atheists. Of the atheists I have encountered, often they are flexible about these things.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

The definition tends to change with the argument. I'm not sure the actual faith (atheism), want's a sensible definition for their religion,

Neither atheism or theism are religions. They're umbrellas which include various ideologies and religions under them. Calling atheism, or theism, a religion is like calling a wrapper candy.

 

[Indagator]

Not all materialists are hard deterministic, nor do they not believe in consciousness. Just consciousness arising through the physical structure of the brain.

Illusion of consciousness you mean? Otherwise we are talking about self-aware objects with free will. <-- and something like that requires a great amount of faith. EDIT: Not saying that Atheist are not faithful people... lol

No I think actually most atheists are agnostic atheists. Of the atheists I have encountered, often they are flexible about these things.

Well they do use science to explain their position aren`t they? AFAIK science is pretty much on the materialistic side. Perhaps those atheists you meat have not really looked into their beliefs

 

[Altfish]

Back to basics....

Atheism is simply a belief a god or a supernatural being - no more, no less. So your following statement "...according to them everything is material/physical" has no basis of fact.
Neither do "they claim that their view is true if it was predetermined"

So your starting premise is false

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Illusion of consciousness you mean? Otherwise we are talking about self-aware objects with free will. <-- and something like that requires a great amount of faith.

No, I'm talking about consciousness, not the illusion of consciousness. Neither consciousness nor self-awareness nor free will is mutually exclusive from numerous materialistic viewpoints. Language is an abstract non-physical concept, but it arises by and for the use of material structures.

 

[Indagator]

Back to basics....

Atheism is simply a belief a god or a supernatural being - no more, no less. So your following statement "...according to them everything is material/physical" has no basis of fact.
Neither do "they claim that their view is true if it was predetermined"

So your starting premise is false

Its not, it is logical conclusion to atheism. Besides consciousness and free will is supernatural.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Theism isn't even a personal description with much meaning; it is too broad in meaning, for that. "Theism" also is extremely vague. As is theist.

Atheism is different, and certainly shows charactistics of a religion.

There is nothing about atheism that isn't as vague and broad as theism. Theism generally means a belief in a god or gods (whatever that being or beings are personally defined as.) Atheism is an absence of belief in god or gods (whatever that being or beings are personally defined as.)
Neither is enough to be qualified as 'characteristics of a religion.'

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Its not, it is logical conclusion to atheism. Besides consciousness and free will is supernatural.

Atheism doesn't mean not believing in the supernatural, just gods. Re: A good percentage of people following numerous of Eastern religions are atheistic.
The word you're looking for is 'Materialism' which not all atheists believe. And those that do have a number of different beliefs about what that word entails.

 

[Indagator]

No, I'm talking about consciousness, not the illusion of consciousness. Neither consciousness nor self-awareness nor free will is mutually exclusive from numerous materialistic viewpoints. Language is an abstract non-physical concept, but it arises by and for the use of material structures.

Well could you then please explain how an object can become self-aware and be more or less independent from nature`s determinism?

 

[Indagator]

Atheism doesn't mean not believing in the supernatural, just gods. Re: A good percentage of people following numerous of Eastern religions are atheistic.
The word you're looking for is 'Materialism' which not all atheists believe. And those that do have a number of different beliefs about what that word entails.

I know this definition. But it is terrible and outdated definition since most of the arguments a "spiritual" atheist uses to disprove God can be used against his own "spiritual" views.

Also supernatural and materialism appears to be mutually exclusive.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Well could you then please explain how an object can become self-aware and be more or less independent from nature`s determinism?

I'll do you one better, I'll give you a whole page about just one example of talking about consciousness arising through the physical brain that does not invoke hard determinism: Supervenience and Mind | Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy

 

[ADigitalArtist]

I know this definition. But it is terrible and outdated definition since most of the arguments a "spiritual" atheist uses to disprove God can be used against his own "spiritual" views.

Also supernatural and materialism appears to be mutually exclusive.

No? First of all, you can't prove or disprove 'spiritual views,' as they are intentionally outside the realm of observable reality and inductive of something not part of the normal physical world. That's sort of the whole point. Secondly, the vast majority of these people are agnostic atheists (and I'd wager the vast majority of atheists PERIOD are agnostic atheists), their belief is not subject to claims of proof or disproof.

 

[Indagator]

No? First of all, you can't prove or disprove 'spiritual views,' as they are intentionally outside the realm of observable reality and inductive of something not part of the normal physical world. That's sort of the whole point. Secondly, the vast majority of these people are agnostic atheists (and I'd wager the vast majority of atheists PERIOD are agnostic atheists), their belief is not subject to claims of proof or disproof.

I already objected to this above.

 

[Altfish]

Its not, it is logical conclusion to atheism. Besides consciousness and free will is supernatural.

WHY?

It is not a logical conclusion. Once again I state atheism is simply a rejection of faith.
Please explain why consciousness and free will is supernatural, that makes no sense at all.

 

[ChristineM]

I mean there is no free will or consciousness in Atheism (the absence of belief in the existence of supernatural) since according to them everything is material/physical. So how can they claim that their view is true if it was predetermined?

Once again, more misrepresentation of atheism by, i assume, a theist.

How can disbelief in god or gods suddenly become "to them everything is material/physical. "

We don't know if our disbelief is true. All we have to go on is the absolute lack of evidence for gods, and in some cases the evidences that disprove aspects of various gods. All you need to do is provide falsifiable evidence that a god or gods exist and you will eradicate atheism at a stroke.

To date no one has every, in about 10,000 years of god worship ever provided such evidence which is one of several reasons there are atheists.

 

[Indagator]

I'll do you one better, I'll give you a whole page about just one example of talking about consciousness arising through the physical brain that does not invoke hard determinism: Supervenience and Mind | Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy

I skimmed through it and it seems like some Olympic level mental gymnastics with pinch of indirect dualism. Perhaps you could point me in the right direction by highlighting what you think is important from your own source?

 

[ChristineM]

The definition tends to change with the argument. I'm not sure the actual faith (atheism), want's a sensible definition for their religion,

Atheism is a faith like not collecting stamps is a hobby

 

[ADigitalArtist]

I already objected to this above.

Are you talking about this?

Well they do use science to explain their position aren`t they? AFAIK science is pretty much on the materialistic side. Perhaps those atheists you meat have not really looked into their beliefs

Because you can use science to explain your position on the natural world, you can't, by definition, use it to explain something which is supernatural. You can use science to review information said to intersect the supernatural and natural world, such as a global flood being unevidenced, or material evidence of ghosts being unconvincing, hoaxes or misinterpretations. But you can't out and out determine a supernatural entity via science. Hence why I, and most atheists I've met, are agnostic atheists.