Do Baha'i believe Jesus or the Holy Spirit can cure the Leper?

[spirit_of_dawn]

Hello everyone,

Baha'is deny --on the basis of science-- the supernatural events and miracles recorded by other religions. Do they also deny that Jesus or the Holy Spirit can cure the Leper or the blind?

 

[Sanzbir]

Hello everyone,

Hello.

Do Baha'i believe Jesus or the Holy Spirit can cure the Leper?

Yes.

Baha'is deny --on the basis of science-- the supernatural events and miracles recorded by other religions.

That is false.

Do they also deny that Jesus or the Holy Spirit can cure the Leper or the blind?

No.

 

[George-ananda]

Hello everyone,

Baha'is deny --on the basis of science-- the supernatural events and miracles recorded by other religions. Do they also deny that Jesus or the Holy Spirit can cure the Leper or the blind?

Bahai beliefs allow for the miraculous to occcur.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Hello everyone,

Baha'is deny --on the basis of science-- the supernatural events and miracles recorded by other religions. Do they also deny that Jesus or the Holy Spirit can cure the Leper or the blind?

Of course Jesus could heal the leper and the blind.

This is the 6th or 7th thread from you in the few weeks for the purpose of propagating misinformation about the Baha’i Faith.

 

[Vinayaka]

Hello everyone,

Baha'is deny --on the basis of science-- the supernatural events and miracles recorded by other religions. Do they also deny that Jesus or the Holy Spirit can cure the Leper or the blind?

Who knows anymore? I found this quote on a Baha'i teachings site.

"If religious beliefs and opinions are found contrary to the standards of science they are mere superstitions and imaginations; for the antithesis of knowledge is ignorance, and the child of ignorance is superstition." – Abdu’l-Baha, Baha’i World Faith, p. 239.

So obviously there are two or more perspectives.

Superstitions, and the discussion of them always comes up with controversy. Many atheists, for example, think the belief in god is a superstition. So from that POV, most faith is false.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Hello everyone,

Baha'is deny --on the basis of science-- the supernatural events and miracles recorded by other religions. Do they also deny that Jesus or the Holy Spirit can cure the Leper or the blind?

Hello.....That is false........

Of course Jesus could heal the leper and the blind.

This is the 6th or 7th thread from you in the few weeks for the purpose of propagating misinformation about the Baha’i Faith.

Those replies covered you OP

Regards Tony

 

[Dawnofhope]

Who knows anymore? I found this quote on a Baha'i teachings site.

"If religious beliefs and opinions are found contrary to the standards of science they are mere superstitions and imaginations; for the antithesis of knowledge is ignorance, and the child of ignorance is superstition." – Abdu’l-Baha, Baha’i World Faith, p. 239.

So obviously there are two or more perspectives.

Superstitions, and the discussion of them always comes up with controversy. Many atheists, for example, think the belief in god is a superstition. So from that POV, most faith is false.

You can believe anything you want. Take a quote or two out of context and you could claim Baha’is are secretly atheists who don’t believe in God at all. The Baha’is look at all the relevant writings.

The belief in the possibility of miracles has never been rejected in the Teachings. Their importance, however, has been minimized.
Shoghi Effendi

 

[CG Didymus]

Of course Jesus could heal the leper and the blind.

This is the 6th or 7th thread from you in the few weeks for the purpose of propagating misinformation about the Baha’i Faith.

Of course he could? But, did he? Do you believe Jesus healed lepers and the blind? But then, it says he brought a couple of people back to life. One was Lazarus. As I recall one Baha'i said that all those things were... symbolic. "So yes Jesus could have, but he didn't." Or, "He did, but it was restoring the "spiritual" sight and cleansing the "leprosy" of unbelief and "raising" a person from being spiritually dead into being spiritually alive." Am I wrong or isn't that how Baha's here have answered questions about Jesus healing people?

Only problem with that kind of answer, for me, is that it still makes what is written into the gospel stories misleading. Because, the writers say it as if it really happened.

Mark 1:40-45 40A man with leprosy came to him and begged him on his knees, "If you are willing, you can make me clean." 41Jesus was indignant. He reached out his hand and touched the man. "I am willing," he said. "Be clean!" 42Immediately the leprosy left him and he was cleansed. 43

John 9: 1-11 As he went along, he saw a man blind from birth. 2 His disciples asked him, “Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?”

3 “Neither this man nor his parents sinned,” said Jesus, “but this happened so that the works of God might be displayed in him...

6 After saying this, he spit on the ground, made some mud with the saliva, and put it on the man’s eyes. 7 “Go,” he told him, “wash in the Pool of Siloam” (this word means “Sent”). So the man went and washed, and came home seeing.

8 His neighbors and those who had formerly seen him begging asked, “Isn’t this the same man who used to sit and beg?” 9 Some claimed that he was.

Others said, “No, he only looks like him.”

But he himself insisted, “I am the man.”

10 “How then were your eyes opened?” they asked.

11 He replied, “The man they call Jesus made some mud and put it on my eyes. He told me to go to Siloam and wash. So I went and washed, and then I could see.”
​

Do Baha'is believe these things really happened, literally, with people that were really physically blind and really had leprosy? Or, the stories were meant to be symbolic and never really happened?

 

[CG Didymus]

Who knows anymore? I found this quote on a Baha'i teachings site.

"If religious beliefs and opinions are found contrary to the standards of science they are mere superstitions and imaginations; for the antithesis of knowledge is ignorance, and the child of ignorance is superstition." – Abdu’l-Baha, Baha’i World Faith, p. 239.

So obviously there are two or more perspectives.

Superstitions, and the discussion of them always comes up with controversy. Many atheists, for example, think the belief in god is a superstition. So from that POV, most faith is false.

How could you take that one quote and build such a ridiculous case that Baha'is think that if religious beliefs go contrary to science that they are superstitions? Next time.. please take the quote in context and quote all of the Baha'i writings.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Do Baha'is believe these things really happened, literally, with people that were really physically blind and really had leprosy? Or, the stories were meant to be symbolic and never really happened?

The Manifestations of God can perform any of the miracles listed. The most important aspect of the miracle gospel stories are the spiritual message they convey. So while Jesus may well have healed the blind man, what’s most relevant is through Christ we see the spiritual path. While the lame man may have been healed, what’s more important is the power of the Word of God to enable us to walk the spiritual path. Perhaps Jesus did raise Lazarus from the dead but in Christ we live. The Baha’is don’t deny any of these miracles but appreciate the spiritual significance.

 

[Dawnofhope]

How could you take that one quote and build such a ridiculous case that Baha'is think that if religious beliefs go contrary to science that they are superstitions? Next time.. please take the quote in context and quote all of the Baha'i writings.

Just the ones that are relevant would suffice.

 

[spirit_of_dawn]

Yes.

Bahai beliefs allow for the miraculous to occcur.

Of course Jesus could heal the leper and the blind.

I will make it clear that I believe in miracles and miraculous healing. However:

On the one hand Baha'is deny anything that goes against established science and on the other hand tell us that people can be miraculously cured, which scientifically speaking is impossible. Somehow, the miraculous and supernatural events in other religions are dismissed as being unscientific and thus non-literal, symbolic, and allegorical yet LEPERS can be cured?!!!

Let's see the facts:

Noah's flood: symbolic.
Noah and other Prophets living long lives: symbolic.
Moses crossing the red sea: Symbolic.
Adam entering heaven and eating from the tree: symbolic.
Curing the Leper: it can occur and it is not symbolic?!

What I see is a Baha'i double-standard practice where some things that go against science are outright denied and labelled as being symbolic while others that suit them are accepted and the principle of "Religion Must be In Conformity With Science and Reason" is simply ignored.

BTW, evidence points to the fact that curing the Leper is also considered symbolic By Baha'is but they publicly claim the contrary. This is what Baha'u'llah says about Jesus:

"We testify that when He came into the world, He shed the splendor of His glory upon all created things. Through Him the leper recovered from the leprosy of perversity and ignorance. Through Him, the unchaste and wayward were healed. Through His power, born of Almighty God, the eyes of the blind were opened, and the soul of the sinner sanctified.
Leprosy may be interpreted as any veil that interveneth between man and the recognition of the Lord, his God. Whoso alloweth himself to be shut out from Him is indeed a leper, who shall not be remembered in the Kingdom of God, the Mighty, the All-Praised. We bear witness that through the power of the Word of God every leper was cleansed, every sickness was healed, every human infirmity was banished. He it is Who purified the world. Blessed is the man who, with a face beaming with light, hath turned towards Him" ​

 

[Dawnofhope]

On the one hand Baha'is deny anything that goes against established science and on the other hand tell us that people can be miraculously cured, which scientifically speaking is impossible. Somehow, the miraculous and supernatural events in other religions are dismissed as being unscientific and thus non-literal, symbolic, and allegorical yet LEPERS can be cured?!!!

Baha’is clearly believe in miracles. That is undeniable. We don’t reject for a moment the possibility the Manifestations of God have power to transcend the laws of science. On the other hand just because something is written in the sacred books of old does not constitute proof everything happened literally. God did not create the earth in six days, six thousand years ago. That irrefutably contradicts established science. There was no world wide flood after that. Contrary to what Muslims believe Jesus was crucified. That’s what Romans did to criminals and we have no reason to doubt the gospels’ account. Just because Bahá’u’lláh has spoken of the spiritual aspects of what it means to be a leper, doesn’t mean Jesus didn’t literally heal a leper. The Baha’is are very clear about what we believe, don’t believe or simply don’t know.

On the other hand Muslims on RF lack the courage to present what they really believe, let alone provide sound arguments in support. You have much to say about what Baha’is believe, mostly deliberate misinformation, yet have little to say about Shi’a Islam.

 

[spirit_of_dawn]

On the other hand Muslims on RF lack the courage to present what they really believe, let alone provide sound arguments in support. You have much to say about what Baha’is believe, mostly deliberate misinformation, yet have little to say about Shi’a Islam.

You're personal attacks are irritating and dumb.
This was the first line of my previous post: "I will make it clear that I believe in miracles and miraculous healing."

Baha’is clearly believe in miracles. That is undeniable. We don’t reject for a moment the possibility the Manifestations of God have power to transcend the laws of science. On the other hand just because something is written in the sacred books of old does not constitute proof everything happened literally. God did not create the earth in six days, six thousand years ago. That irrefutably contradicts established science. There was no world wide flood after that. Contrary to what Muslims believe Jesus was crucified. That’s what Romans did to criminals and we have no reason to doubt the gospels’ account. Just because Bahá’u’lláh has spoken of the spiritual aspects of what it means to be a leper, doesn’t mean Jesus didn’t literally heal a leper. The Baha’is are very clear about what we believe, don’t believe or simply don’t know.

Moses splitting the red sea and crossing it is an evident miracle. So do Baha'is believe i this miracle? Of course not! That event can't be a miracle, it was spiritual and non-physical:

"The crossing of the Red Sea has a spiritual meaning. It was a spiritual journey, through and above the sea of corruption and iniquity of the Pharaoh and his people, or army. By the help of God through Moses, the Israelites were able to cross this sea safely and reach the Promised Land (spiritual state) while Pharaoh and his people were drowned in their own corruption.

"The Egyptian History recorded even trifling events. Had such a wonderful thing happened as the parting of the physical sea it would also have been recorded."

(Abdu'l-Bahá: Lights of Guidance no. 1678)​

I find it arrogant that Baha'is think they are the standard for understanding and recognizing what miracle really occurred and what didn't.

 

[HonestJoe]

I find it arrogant that Baha'is think they are the standard for understanding and recognizing what miracle really occurred and what didn't.

How is that different from any of the other revealed religion, including apparently your own?

 

[spirit_of_dawn]

How is that different from any of the other revealed religion, including apparently your own?

Because I don't differentiate between miracles of true Prophets and don't deny them or claim one was symbolic and the other wasn't, for they are performed by a power bestowed upon them by an Omnipotent God. However Baha'i belief states that these miracles are superstition because they are unscientific:

"If religious beliefs and opinions are found contrary to the standards of science they are mere superstitions and imaginations; for the antithesis of knowledge is ignorance, and the child of ignorance is superstition." – Abdu’l-Baha, Baha’i World Faith, p. 239.
​

Yet, they claim that some of these unscientific superstitions are true, but only they are the one's that can recognize which unscientific superstition we should believe and which one we shouldn't. Which sounds kind of funny because if it's an unscientific superstition based on baha'i teachings, it's an unscientific superstition. They have to deny all miracles and some of them can't magically turn into facts and be acceptable.

 

[oldbadger]

Who knows anymore? I found this quote on a Baha'i teachings site.

"If religious beliefs and opinions are found contrary to the standards of science they are mere superstitions and imaginations; for the antithesis of knowledge is ignorance, and the child of ignorance is superstition." – Abdu’l-Baha, Baha’i World Faith, p. 239.

So obviously there are two or more perspectives.

Superstitions, and the discussion of them always comes up with controversy. Many atheists, for example, think the belief in god is a superstition. So from that POV, most faith is false.

It's Double-Think and Double-Speak, yet again.
I wonder what Bahuallah said (if at all) about Jesus healing lepers and blind folks?

 

[oldbadger]

You're personal attacks are irritating and dumb.
This was the first line of my previous post: "I will make it clear that I believe in miracles and miraculous healing."

Moses splitting the red sea and crossing it is an evident miracle. So do Baha'is believe i this miracle? Of course not! That event can't be a miracle, it was spiritual and non-physical:

"The crossing of the Red Sea has a spiritual meaning. It was a spiritual journey, through and above the sea of corruption and iniquity of the Pharaoh and his people, or army. By the help of God through Moses, the Israelites were able to cross this sea safely and reach the Promised Land (spiritual state) while Pharaoh and his people were drowned in their own corruption.

"The Egyptian History recorded even trifling events. Had such a wonderful thing happened as the parting of the physical sea it would also have been recorded."

(Abdu'l-Bahá: Lights of Guidance no. 1678)​

I find it arrogant that Baha'is think they are the standard for understanding and recognizing what miracle really occurred and what didn't.

Well I reckon that Abdul got that wrong, because I think that the Israelites did indeed escape out of Egypt through the Reed Sea, or Red Sea if you prefer.

 

[spirit_of_dawn]

It's Double-Think and Double-Speak, yet again.
I wonder what Bahuallah said (if at all) about Jesus healing lepers and blind folks?

I already quoted what he said in post #12:
Do Baha'i believe Jesus or the Holy Spirit can cure the Leper?

 

[oldbadger]

You can believe anything you want. Take a quote or two out of context and you could claim Baha’is are secretly atheists who don’t believe in God at all. The Baha’is look at all the relevant writings.

The belief in the possibility of miracles has never been rejected in the Teachings. Their importance, however, has been minimized.
Shoghi Effendi

Adrian, you have done exactly that which you have accused others of...... you have cherry picked a single statement by Bahauallah's (great?) grandson rather than go directly to what Bahauallah wrote himself.

You have already been shown Bahai writings which state something different about the miracles of Jesus.