Do black people commit most of the crime in the US?

[blü 2]

Do black people commit the most crime in the United States?

Roused to curiosity by the question, I've put together the list below, showing the top ten states for violent crime, and in bold the ranking of that state in the list of highest proportion of Af-Am population

1 Alaska 635.8 per 100,000 of population / 35
2 Nevada 635.6 / 24
3 Tennessee 608.4 / 10
4 New Mexico 597.4 / 40
5 Florida 540.5 / 12
6 Louisiana 514.7 / 2
7 South Carolina 497.7 / 6
8 Delaware 489.1 / 9
9 Arkansas 480.1 / 13
10 Maryland 446.1 / 4

And the least violent ten ─

41 Minnesota 229.1 / 31
42 Rhode Island 219.2 / 27
43 Utah 215.6 / 43
44 Idaho 212.2 / 48
45 Kentucky 211.6 / 24
46 Virginia 196.2 / 9
47 New Hampshire 196.1 / 44
48 Wyoming 195.5 / 42
49 Maine 127.8 / 47
50 Vermont 99.3 / 49

So a correlation between violent crime and Af-Am population is shown to be fairly general, making the exceptions the interesting things.

On the face of it ─

Gold star for Virginia, which is doing something right and so is worth further study for solutions. Silver for Kentucky and Minnesota.

In last place is New Mexico, and Nevada does poorly too.

I did a quick search to see if anyone had looked into the background of these figures, but found nothing specific. However if anyone can point to research here I'd be interested.

 

[RedDragon94]

I'm sourcing the popularly used Fact Check here because it seems many people here claim it as being reliable and accurate.

It asked a very tough question.

Do black people commit the most crime in the United States?

FactCheck: do black Americans commit more crime?

I feel a certain optimism. If I read the stats right most homicides that are committed are committed by people who share common ethnicity. It's no where near the race war we see on the news. Thank you for this.

 

[BSM1]

Certainly among the very rich there's a disproportionate number of A holes, I would think most of the financial/economic crime, robbery, fraud etc is committed by the super rich.

If you already super rich why would have to commit...ah, hell, nevermind.

 

[George-ananda]

For what it's worth, there are numerous studies that show that race/skin color is more highly correlated with (more predictive of) crime rates than poverty is. This article links to several of these studies. Click on them at your own risk. As far as I know, no study has found that poverty or income level plays no role in crime rates, but there are fairly consistent correlations between crime and skin color.

I highly recommend the 2011 study by Templer and Rushton, not only for the findings of that study but for the eye-opening discussion of the findings of many other studies. The abstract and first paragraph:

In 50 U.S. states, we found a positive manifold across 11 measures including IQ, skin color, birth rate, infant mortality, life expectancy, HIV/AIDS, violent crime, and state income with the first principal component accounting for 33% of the variance (median factor loading= .34). The correlation with a composite of total violent crime was higher with skin color (r= .55), a more biologically influenced variable than with GDP (r=−.17), a more culturally influenced variable. These results corroborate and extend those found at the international level using INTERPOL crime statistics and at the county, provincial, and state levels within countries using local statistics. We interpret the cross-cultural consistency from an evolutionary life history perspective in which hierarchically organized traits culminate in a single, heritable, superfactor. Traits need to be genetically organized to meet the trials of life -- survival, growth, and reproduction. We discuss brain size and the g nexus as central to understand individual and group differences and we highlight melanin and skin color as a potentially important new life history variable.

In this paper, we confirm and extend research on the g nexus of inter-correlated variables found within- and between-nations at aggregate levels. As described by Jensen (1998), the g nexus is a network of variables with general mental ability at the center. It has both horizontal and vertical components. The horizontal component includes real-world variables that co-vary and interact with g, such as educational achievement, wealth, health, longevity, job performance, and law-abidingness. The vertical component includes presumed causes of individual differences in g, with a special focus on biological and neuropsychological variables (i.e., in properties of the human brain), and gene-based evolutionary processes.​

Templer and Rushton go on to explain the evolutionary hypothesis for regional difference in IQ: the further north ancestral populations migrated out of Africa, the more they were confronted with cognitively demanding problems such as gathering and storing food, making clothes and shelter, and providing for children under the harsh conditions of long winters. They note that “the cold winters theory” is supported by “the 0.62 correlation found between cranial capacities and distance from the equator in 20,000 crania representing 122 ethnically distinguishable populations from every continent (Beals, Smith, & Dodd, 1984).”

I think genetics and environment are indeed factors in the poverty, crime and social problem statistical disproportions between ethnicities. To bring in genetics is not pretty, but in serious discussions about this it is the 500lb gorilla in the room.

 

[gnomon]

Me either. When people complain about racism and oppression or something similar, it always seems a misdirection occurs from the real causes that leads to problems like this.

When you ask a person, "Do black people commit most or more crime"?, It seems a lot of reactions are primarily emotional, rather than asking why it is the case when faced with hard statistics?

I live in a mixed middle class pepper and salt neighborhood, privileged to live in a very decent and friendly environment.

I don't ask people if black people commit most or more crime.

I just read the Uniform Crime Report and see that the answer is no in my personal opinion.

There is the issue that homicide arrests for blacks against their representation of the population outstrips other groups but than you have questions of poverty, history and the ever present ridiculous drug laws that has incarcerated for more minorities for the exact same offense white's commit. But when you look at the overall crime which includes robbery, rape (whites predominate there), larceny, automotive theft, weapon possession to even curfew violations......what I see is a law enforcement bias. But that is my opinion.

When you also include that violent acts are usually committed by one someone knows, usually among the same ethnic group, you have to ask other questions.

Like poverty, history, economic conditions, etc.

But overall......no.

I think whites commit more crimes than any other group in the United States. Especially when they commit crimes that resulted in the 2007-2008 economic collapse which hurt minorities more than whites.

That's my last two cents. The rest of you can chew on that.

 

[Nous]

I think genetics and environment are indeed factors in the poverty, crime and social problem statistical disproportions between ethnicities. To bring in genetics is not pretty, but in serious discussions about this it is the 500lb gorilla in the room.

I can't believe you said that because I was kind of kicking myself for not noting the same thing. The fact that whites (especially in the US) have exploited Africans and Native Americans should not dissuade us from examining the issues of genetics, race, crime, etc. The fact is that criminality follows the same racial pattern as IQ scores--which is more flattering to Asians than it is to whites. As Rushton notes in another of his studies:

Statistics on crime in the US show that African Americans are over-represented and East Asian Americans underrepresented relative to European Americans. Since victim surveys tell a similar story, the proportional differences cannot be attributed to police prejudice or to bias in the criminal justice system (Taylor & Whitney, 1999). In Canada, a government commission found that Blacks were five times more likely to be in jail than Whites and ten times more likely than East Asians (Ontario, 1996). In Britain, the Home Office (1999) reported that the Afro-Caribbean 2% of the population made up 15% of the prison population. Lynn (2002) found an East Asian–White–Black gradient in mean scores in psychopathic personality indexed by childhood conduct disorder, being suspended from school, scoring low on tests of moral

From the 1986 Yearbook, Rushton (1990) collated the rates per 100,000 people for 12 East Asian countries, 48 European countries, and 28 African and Caribbean countries and found: for murder, 6, 5, and 9; rape, 3, 6, and 14; and serious assault, 29, 66, and 130, respectively. From the 1990 Yearbook, Rushton (1995) examined the rates per 100,000 people for 12 East Asian, 41 European, and 23 Afro-Caribbean countries and found: for murder, 3, 5, and 13; rape, 3, 6, and 17; and serious assault, 27, 63, and 213, respectively. From the 1993–96 Yearbooks, Rushton and Whitney (2002) examined the rates per 100,000 people for 7 East Asian, 45 Caucasian, and 22 Afro-Caribbean countries and found: for murder, 2, 4, and 8; rape, 3, 5, and 6; and serious assault, 31, 34, and 136, respectively.​

http://philipperushton.net/wp-conte...y-John-Philippe-Rushton-Donald-I.-Templer.pdf

And, of course, none of this is to deny racial bias, including among police officers. As the DOJ found about Ferguson, MO, in a simple examination of the data that anyone could do: African Americans were more than twice as likely as white drivers to be searched during vehicle stops even after controlling for non-race based variables such as the reason the vehicle stop was initiated. But these African Americans who were searched were found to possess contraband 26% less often than white drivers. As the DOJ report noted, this fact can only indicate that race was a factor in determining whether to perform a search.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

If crime pays... the super rich are the greatest criminals.

 

[Revoltingest]

From The Poverty-Crime Connection

Crime Follows Poverty Because:
• Low-income and African American communities have a higher percentage of adult males behind bars (and many for drug or lesser crimes than whites). That means fewer fathers, grandfathers and mentors for young men to look up to. Without a stable father figure, young men are more likely to follow the paths of their father.

#• The "war on drugs" has traditionally targeted low-income, minority communities where many street dealers live instead of the often white and well-to-do suppliers.

#• A criminal record reduces one's opportunities for employment; thus, they are more likely to turn to crime again.

#• A neighborhood's goals and values are reflected in the amount of crime that occurs. "Neighborhoods and Violent Crime: A Multilevel Study of Collective Efficacy" by Robert J. Sampson, Stephen W. Raudenbush and Felton Earls, published in Science magazine in 1997, found that the ability of communities to obtain resources and public services correlates with the signs of disorder. For example, the fewer resources a community has to invest into their homes, the more likely it is to find vacant houses, vandalism and burned-out buildings—conditions that breed crime.

I don't argue against any of this.
(Note that I'm a big fan of ending The War On Drugs.)
But it appears that you're explaining why blacks commit more crime as evidence of claiming they don't.

 

[Revoltingest]

My personal experiences with the rich include me being fascinated and puzzled by them being fascinated and puzzled over common every day low/middle class items you can get for $10 bucks just about anywhere, like electric waffle irons. I wouldn't call them a-holes though. Some of them dumb and lucky to come from money, sure, but some are so very generous. And though you can tell they come from a different world (socio-economically) than someone such as myself, really they are just confused apes like the rest of us. Except they can afford "top" top-shelf alcohol.

I'm just amazed that some posters speak ill of the very rich as though they rub shoulders daily.
I suspect that the kind of ne'er do wells who write thousands of posts on a backwater internet
forum (like yours truly) don't actually know any uber wealthy folk. Such knowledge is pretended.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

@Nous @George-ananda

You agree with Rushton that black people are intellectually inferior to whites and East Asians, then? If so, that's extremely disappointing and just plain sad.

 

[Stevicus]

I'm just amazed that some posters speak ill of the very rich as though they rub shoulders daily.
I suspect that the kind of ne'er do wells who write thousands of posts on a backwater internet
forum (like yours truly) don't actually know any uber wealthy folk. Such knowledge is pretended.

You don't necessarily have to be rich in order to know rich people. Even if someone grows up in a poor family in a poor neighborhood, they might get into college where they will undoubtedly see rich students. Or they might work in a fancy restaurant or hotel where they will encounter wealthy people (who can often be more demanding than the average Joe).

And even if one doesn't meet any wealthy people personally, they'll still "know them by their fruits," so to speak.

Whenever prices go up, a wealthy person decided that. Whenever wages or benefits go down, a wealthy person decided that. Whenever corruption or bribery is reported, then one can safely assume that the wealthy are involved in it. Whenever people go around flaunting their wealth in countless ways, then they are visible and known to those around them. Many wealthy people are public or semi-public figures, generally known to their local community if not nationally famous. Some wealthy people ostensibly want their reputation to be known as someone who is respected and feared - someone you "don't want to mess with." Those who throw their weight around like that end up being "known" far more intimately than those who are modest and stay in the shadows.

 

[leibowde84]

I don't argue against any of this.
(Note that I'm a big fan of ending The War On Drugs.)
But it appears that you're explaining why blacks commit more crime as evidence of claiming they don't.

It has nothing to do with their skin color. It has to do with their financial situation. That's why it's stupid to say "blacks are more likely to commit crimes".

 

[Revoltingest]

You don't necessarily have to be rich in order to know rich people. Even if someone grows up in a poor family in a poor neighborhood, they might get into college where they will undoubtedly see rich students. Or they might work in a fancy restaurant or hotel where they will encounter wealthy people (who can often be more demanding than the average Joe).
And even if one doesn't meet any wealthy people personally, they'll still "know them by their fruits," so to speak.

I wouldn't claim to know a class of people just from seeing them in a restaurant.

k
Whenever prices go up, a wealthy person decided that. Whenever wages or benefits go down, a wealthy person decided that. Whenever corruption or bribery is reported, then one can safely assume that the wealthy are involved in it. Whenever people go around flaunting their wealth in countless ways, then they are visible and known to those around them. Many wealthy people are public or semi-public figures, generally known to their local community if not nationally famous. Some wealthy people ostensibly want their reputation to be known as someone who is respected and feared - someone you "don't want to mess with." Those who throw their weight around like that end up being "known" far more intimately than those who are modest and stay in the shadows.

We have a fundamental disagreement about how markets work.
As for corruption, I find that government is behind most of it.

 

[Revoltingest]

It has nothing to do with their skin color. It has to do with their financial situation. That's why it's stupid to say "blacks are more likely to commit crimes".

Your objection is too weak to call others' "stupid".
You can't win an argument by employing insults.
I don't think anyone here claims that crime is inherent to skin color.

 

[George-ananda]

I'll answer for myself, but not for @Nous of course

@Nous @George-ananda

You agree with Rushton that black people are intellectually inferior to whites and East Asians, then?

Well, the term intellect may be a mix of different thinking abilities. I think the closer we look at core abilities and traits, we will see three bell curves with different mean points.

[ If so, that's extremely disappointing and just plain sad.

I am not going to change what I unemotionally objectively believe from a lifetime of observation and listening to argumentation to make others happy. Because of the obvious sensitivity of the issue, I will normally not address the issue unless someone wants to have a serious discussion. I think at this time there is some implicit over-vilification of white society and police for the black criminal and poverty statistics being discussed in this thread.

 

[Revoltingest]

I'll add to all the above that even if black folk do disproportionately commit crime, the important things are.....
- Judge people as individuals.
- Work for a society wherein crime, poverty, bigotry, oppression, & Democrats are lessened.

 

[Stevicus]

I wouldn't claim to know a class of people just from seeing them in a restaurant.

Not just seeing them, but interacting and talking with them on a regular basis. No one knows rich people quite like those who have to serve them. My mother worked in various clerical jobs for some rather rich and powerful people in Los Angeles - producers and lawyers, mostly. For a time, she also worked as an administrative assistant for some wealthy lady who ran a high-end purse and handbag company. This lady was the absolute pits. In the same building where their office was located, there was an agency collecting donations for the Cambodian famine, and one of her wealthy friends called it the "Biafra room" in a rather scornful way. A well-fed woman (very well-fed, as I recall) showing such contempt and blatant disregard towards starving people who never harmed her at all. They'll never know how their photographs offended a rich lady from Beverly Hills.

The point is, one can know wealthy people without necessarily rubbing elbows or hobnobbing with them. I'm not even sure if that's the most reliable way to learn about someone anyway. I find I get to know the people I work with just as well, if not better, than those I socialize with.

We have a fundamental disagreement about how markets work.

Indeed we do, although I don't think that changes the facts as I stated them. For example, when a business raises its prices, it's a conscious choice. Someone has to physically change the price on the shelf or the price book or anywhere else it's listed. It's not something that happens by magic or an "unseen hand." A conscious decision is made. The wealthier and more powerful an individual is, the more influence they wield. Each of their conscious decisions could also have wide-reaching effects with no less an impact than the choices made by politicians in government.

Markets are a human system and the result of human choices, and the more money an individual has, the greater impact their choices have on the markets. Do you disagree with that?

As for corruption, I find that government is behind most of it.

Governments that are bought and paid for by wealthy people, yes.

 

[Revoltingest]

Not just seeing them, but interacting and talking with them on a regular basis. No one knows rich people quite like those who have to serve them. My mother worked in various clerical jobs for some rather rich and powerful people in Los Angeles - producers and lawyers, mostly. For a time, she also worked as an administrative assistant for some wealthy lady who ran a high-end purse and handbag company. This lady was the absolute pits. In the same building where their office was located, there was an agency collecting donations for the Cambodian famine, and one of her wealthy friends called it the "Biafra room" in a rather scornful way. A well-fed woman (very well-fed, as I recall) showing such contempt and blatant disregard towards starving people who never harmed her at all. They'll never know how their photographs offended a rich lady from Beverly Hills.

The point is, one can know wealthy people without necessarily rubbing elbows or hobnobbing with them. I'm not even sure if that's the most reliable way to learn about someone anyway. I find I get to know the people I work with just as well, if not better, than those I socialize with.



Indeed we do, although I don't think that changes the facts as I stated them. For example, when a business raises its prices, it's a conscious choice. Someone has to physically change the price on the shelf or the price book or anywhere else it's listed. It's not something that happens by magic or an "unseen hand." A conscious decision is made. The wealthier and more powerful an individual is, the more influence they wield. Each of their conscious decisions could also have wide-reaching effects with no less an impact than the choices made by politicians in government.

Markets are a human system and the result of human choices, and the more money an individual has, the greater impact their choices have on the markets. Do you disagree with that?



Governments that are bought and paid for by wealthy people, yes.

Goodness, that's a lot to read.
Let's just say that I oppose using such a broad brush to dis an entire class of people.
I won't judge black folk by the ones in prison, nor judge white folk by those in the KKK.
So I won't judge rich folk by some bad experience when I service one of their yachts.

Bigotry isn't limited to race, religion & gender.
It's also found in politics, economics, class, professions, & even baseball teams.

An exception....
All lawyers are evil....even the ones who work for me.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I'm just amazed that some posters speak ill of the very rich as though they rub shoulders daily.

It is. The ones I know, they aren't "blood family," but they are my "half" siblings family, and I'm in some of the family reunion photos. So they are kind of like family, and some have welcomed me and treated me as such.

You don't necessarily have to be rich in order to know rich people. Even if someone grows up in a poor family in a poor neighborhood, they might get into college where they will undoubtedly see rich students. Or they might work in a fancy restaurant or hotel where they will encounter wealthy people (who can often be more demanding than the average Joe).

That isn't knowing rich people. Try sleeping in their houses, attending a dinner gathering in a castle, and exchanging hugs and handshakes, attending funerals/memorials, dropping in occasionally to visit, and being able to say you actually know them.

Whenever prices go up, a wealthy person decided that. Whenever wages or benefits go down, a wealthy person decided that. Whenever corruption or bribery is reported, then one can safely assume that the wealthy are involved in it.

One aunt (who had more money than you'll ever see), did not decide that and was so generous that one time she gave me so much money to go have a fun night in town (Nashville) that I couldn't refuse/decline a gift but it was a bit embarrassing at the time to be given so much. Another one doesn't even live rich because she donates so much and still lives very comfortably. The nurses and doctors in this family (there are several and they are rich), they don't have the power or positions to make those calls. This is a 1% family. The family patriarch that helped start the family wealth was a German immigrant, and the matriarch was a Finnish immigrant. They haven't cut your wages, they've not made you pay more for a gallon of milk, but the children and grandchildren and great-grandchildren, they've almost all worked for their own wealth - granted they were fortunate to have help getting their, but there is a world's difference between them and the snobbish ******** you hear/read about in the news.

 

[Revoltingest]

It is. The ones I know, they aren't "blood family," but they are my "half" siblings family, and I'm in some of the family reunion photos. So they are kind of like family, and some have welcomed me and treated me as such.

Here's hoping that you become rich.
Then you can decide whether you like it or not.