Do humans have a religious instinct?

[LuisDantas]

All wisdom flows from God so yes humanity is spiritual by nature.

That is just dogma.

 

[Jimmy]

That is just dogma.

It may be dogma but I learned it on my own through spiritual reflection. I don’t just spew dogma. I say what I know in my heart to be true

 

[wellwisher]

All wisdom flows from God so yes humanity is spiritual by nature.

I have developed a way to bring science back to God. But for now, I am building a bridge one section at a time.

We live in space-time where space and time work together like two people running a three legged race. A photon of energy has both wavelength and frequency that the mathematical product of which, is always proportional to the speed of light, no matter the wavelength or the frequency. They are tethered, with this tethering of space-time placing limits on physical reality that are expressed as the law of physics.

Say we a were to separate space-time into separated space and separate time, where each variable could act as an independent variable. Like in the three legged race, if we separated the two partners, both would have more capability, and the limits defined by the laws of physics and space-time could be exceeded.

Two world class sprinters running a three legged race could never run as fast as they can when separated. If you could move in space apart from time you could omnipresent which is a classic attribute of God. God, life and consciousness have a connection to separated space and separated time and its impact on space-time. If God could move in time without the constraints of space, while also being omnipresent, he become omniscience. And if God was to tether some of separated space and separated time into space-time, he could make photons; energy, for an entire universe; omnipotent. Separated space and time and space-time is a simple but complex addendum to physics that has a lot of future potential not just in applied science but also spirituality and harnessing the brain's full potential.

The interface between biological life and human consciousness, that lives between space-time, and separated space and separated time; divine realm, is the 2nd law or entropy. If you existed where space and time were not connected the amount of complexity becomes infinite, since there are no limitations like we have in space-time. The impact of the realm of separated space and time, would define infinite entropy, and would be the potential change we call the second law within space-time.

The universe was formless and void before space-time appears since all we had was separated space and separated time. There are no photons of energy. By tethering some of separated space and time to form space-time, energy appears; let there be light. Energy conservation is an artifact of space-time since energy is connected to space-time and only so much separated space and separated time was used. The second law, on the other hand states that the entropy for the space-time universe will increase with time. This appears to be the connection for change, matter, for life and for consciousness. Separated space and time is bringing our space-time universe, back to where it came.

That natural push to increase complexity; 2nd law interface, is very active in life and consciousness, and is the push to add the extra. We have this urge of life use our sensory systems, since this adds complexity; the extra, even beyond the DNA hard drive. Then via science and technology and civilization, there is a spirit of innovation to where we may even terrafirm planets some day. Consciousness is heading to higher human potential; advancement in all areas of knowledge.

This neural connection to separated space and time can be detailed in terms of how the brain works, based on the entropic potential neurons generate which express the 2nd law and change; leaning potential and consciousness. I tend to believe an update of the brain operating system is near so we can process more entropy; higher human potential and wisdom; organic AI.

All wisdom flows from God so yes humanity is spiritual by nature.

 

[LuisDantas]

It may be dogma but I learned it on my own through spiritual reflection. I don’t just spew dogma. I say what I know in my heart to be true

That is fine...

... until you decide that it must be true to everyone else regardless of what they might think.

 

[Jimmy]

That is fine...

... until you decide that it must be true to everyone else regardless of what they might think.

Who said I decided?

 

[LuisDantas]

Who said I decided?

You decided that your experiences apply to all of humanity. ("All wisdom flows from god so yes humanity is spiritual by nature.")

That is abusive. You are not allowed to toss your god-conception over others. Over anyone else, as a matter of fact, even others that might share a nominal church with you.

 

[Jimmy]

You decided that your experiences apply to all of humanity. ("All wisdom flows from god so yes humanity is spiritual by nature.")

That is abusive. You are not allowed to toss your god-conception over others. Over anyone else, as a matter of fact, even others that might share a nominal church with you.

I didn’t say all of humanity

 

[Jimmy]

You decided that your experiences apply to all of humanity. ("All wisdom flows from god so yes humanity is spiritual by nature.")

That is abusive. You are not allowed to toss your god-conception over others. Over anyone else, as a matter of fact, even others that might share a nominal church with you.

Oh, I forgot to preface that with in my opinion. sometimes I forget. sorry about that. I didn’t mean to abuse you. I edited my response. Have a blessed day

 

[shunyadragon]

That last two sentence paragraph, should have been two paragraphs. The first sentence was about the Founding Fathers not picking any one religion, but leaving it to the individual to bring meaning to their life with their pursuit of faith.

The second sentence was sort of a summary and applied to the religious instinct in general. Atheism was another application of the religious instinct, seeking to give itself supreme importance, with it constantly feuding with classic religion.

In this forum, we do not have a bloody war, but there is a constant push by atheist to discredit the classic versions of religious instinct, especially Christianity; mirror religions. Communism, was sort of a fantasy of heaven on earth; ideal version, with a godless version of Christianity with a Pope, that was cruel toward classic religion, who would not bow and serve. Atheism in the West, in general, does not do that far but still like to bicker; heaven on earth via reason, science and materialism but no gods.

Classic paranoia and compulsive fear of atheism. Something like hating math and the belief geometry teachers are plotting to take over the world.

There is likely an atheist hiding under the bed of many theists, whispering evil thoughts.

 

[wellwisher]

Classic paranoia and compulsive fear of atheism. Something like hating math and the belief geometry teachers are plotting to take over the world.

There is likely an atheist hiding under the bed of many theists, whispering evil thoughts.

The compulsive fear of Atheism, some people have, is connected to Atheism on the attack. It is no longer the religious trying to burn the Atheist witch at the stake. It is the other way around; law fare to remove religious objects. A religious person going to an Atheist leaning forum site will be suspended due to politics if the dare discuss religion or Creationism. While Atheists in a religious site, like this one, are given more slack, even while being negative and on the attack. Atheism is now the mob. This is connected to the religious instinct; rough, primitive and not yet evolved. It is sort of stuck old school due to denial.

Although many scientists are Atheist not all Atheists are scientists. Liberals often associate with Atheism, and are more likely liberal arts. Attachment to any group, to gain the prestige of association is a primitive part of the religious instinct. An emotional thinker is not a scientist. One cannot do science based how it makes you feel. Today I feel good about the experiments but yesterday I felt bad, so I threw out all the data. Science should be above politics. Where that not true, is due to the religious instinct; crude and not yet refined.

For example, the hide in the black box campaign of Democrat Presidential Candidate Harris is not exactly rational behavior. It is designed to manipulate reality, rather than give good information for an informed decision by the voters. If all Atheist were rational and believed in science, they would treat Harris in an impartial way, like any object of science study, and not just circle the wagons and try to justify bad data.That is also the crude religious instinct.

A true scientist is not two faced, because of emotional connection to the observed phenomena. Atheism=science is a scam. The science side of Atheism is there, but not all the time, especially when its religion aspect is threatened.

 

[shunyadragon]

The compulsive fear of Atheism, some people have, is connected to Atheism on the attack. It is no longer the religious trying to burn the Atheist witch at the stake. It is the other way around; law fare to remove religious objects. A religious person going to an Atheist leaning forum site will be suspended due to politics if the dare discuss religion or Creationism. While Atheists in a religious site, like this one, are given more slack, even while being negative and on the attack. Atheism is now the mob. This is connected to the religious instinct; rough, primitive and not yet evolved. It is sort of stuck old school due to denial.

The above is unbelievably absurd since atheists make up only 4% of the population and the Christian Conservative trend in the USA is make our government a Christian Theonomy. Your hateful aggressive paranoia against atheism is far too common in the USA reflected by some on this forum.

Based on your posts and others you apparently do want burn atheism at the stake or at lest in effigy. Your wording angry and hostile to the extreme. Words are far more powerful that the sword.

The atheist do argue the Natural scientific view of the nature of our physical existence, as I do as a Theist. It is the Fundamentalist Christians that have been on the abusive attack of not only atheist but science as well

In fact, the sciences of evolution are supported by the majority of Theists in the USA Of course, education is a factor, the higher the education level the more likely to support the sciences of evolution.

Although many scientists are Atheist not all Atheists are scientists. Liberals often associate with Atheism, and are more likely liberal arts. Attachment to any group, to gain the prestige of association is a primitive part of the religious instinct. An emotional thinker is not a scientist. One cannot do science based how it makes you feel. Today I feel good about the experiments but yesterday I felt bad, so I threw out all the data. Science should be above politics. Where that not true, is due to the religious instinct; crude and not yet refined.

More paranoid ranting without any coherent basis. Liberals do not associate with atheism. By far most are Theists. They are just more tolerant of different religious beliefs,

For example, the hide in the black box campaign of Democrat Presidential Candidate Harris is not exactly rational behavior. It is designed to manipulate reality, rather than give good information for an informed decision by the voters. If all Atheist were rational and believed in science, they would treat Harris in an impartial way, like any object of science study, and not just circle the wagons and try to justify bad data.That is also the crude religious instinct.

A true scientist is not two faced, because of emotional connection to the observed phenomena. Atheism=science is a scam. The science side of Atheism is there, but not all the time, especially when its religion aspect is threatened.

Scientists are not two faced, religious beliefs including atheism cannot be considered to keep science as science and neutral.

There is no such thing as a black box campaign,, except among Fundamentalists rejecting the sciences of evolution.

Any other "Black Box Campaign" needs a rational explanation other than a vague paranoid explanation,

 

[Revoltingest]

Personal perspective...
I have no "religious instinct".
My instinct is to see religion as a stupid delusion.
It seems to be a need for a parental figure.
As though they never matured into an adult.

 

[Nakosis]

From a science POV, using the Theory of Evolution, since religions has been an important part of the human condition, since at least the start of civilization, and have played a dominant role for most of that time, grooming culture and people, religion has sort of acted like a version of natural selection; man made selection, for at least 6000 years. So many of the predominate ancient artifacts; building and art, have religious connections. Stonehenge still stand the testament of the religious drive; last thing standing of a time gone by.
.
The question is, is that enough selection time to shift human genetics toward what could be loosely called a religious instinct, since those with the program, would have been more selected; more selective advantages, and therefore their genes would accumulate and concentrate over time. No matter how one worships, there is similar fundamental structuring. Progressives have this faith in novelty and untested ideas. They come from the imagination and are worshiped and defended in an emotional way; transgender is the latest.

It is very possible that although you can take people out of religion; atheism, you may not be able to take religion out of the people, since human brain and DNA is quite conservative of its past. The result is things like Marxism, that may be sold as atheist on the surface, were driven by that inner religious nature, to become a morphed religion; blind obedience to an ideal; religious archetype.

If true, this all comes down to whether the classic religions or the modern morphed religions are more damaging to cultures and people? In modern times, the atheist morphed religions like Marxism and NAZIsm; social darwinism, were the worst.

This observation and application of Evolution, also brings the theory of Evolution in the spot light as to whether 6000-10,000 years is enough time for selective changes on human DNA that underlay human behavioral firmware. If not maybe the theory may need to be updated. If we see a new bird and call that evolution maybe it is too soon for fundamental change but only shallow change.

Liberalism has all the earmarks of a morph religion. The divided nature of that morphed religion; deny classic religion, could explain why they work so hard to separate from what they are unconscious of and cannot admit. The moth flying to the flame each day shows an attraction to what appears like a contradiction, to it own religious preservation; religious war. I like psycho-analyzing people who need help becoming whole.

I think if I had not been taught religion, I'd have no instinct for it.
In school I was taught that the universe could be explained by the physical sciences so there was no reason to go looking for a non-physical explanation for anything.

No real internal mindset for it except it was prevalent in my culture. As a kid you tend to accept that adults know what they are talking about.

Without that though no feeling of a need for non-physical forces at work in the universe.

 

[Balthazzar]

From a science POV, using the Theory of Evolution, since religions has been an important part of the human condition, since at least the start of civilization, and have played a dominant role for most of that time, grooming culture and people, religion has sort of acted like a version of natural selection; man made selection, for at least 6000 years. So many of the predominate ancient artifacts; building and art, have religious connections. Stonehenge still stand the testament of the religious drive; last thing standing of a time gone by.
.
The question is, is that enough selection time to shift human genetics toward what could be loosely called a religious instinct, since those with the program, would have been more selected; more selective advantages, and therefore their genes would accumulate and concentrate over time. No matter how one worships, there is similar fundamental structuring. Progressives have this faith in novelty and untested ideas. They come from the imagination and are worshiped and defended in an emotional way; transgender is the latest.

It is very possible that although you can take people out of religion; atheism, you may not be able to take religion out of the people, since human brain and DNA is quite conservative of its past. The result is things like Marxism, that may be sold as atheist on the surface, were driven by that inner religious nature, to become a morphed religion; blind obedience to an ideal; religious archetype.

If true, this all comes down to whether the classic religions or the modern morphed religions are more damaging to cultures and people? In modern times, the atheist morphed religions like Marxism and NAZIsm; social darwinism, were the worst.

This observation and application of Evolution, also brings the theory of Evolution in the spot light as to whether 6000-10,000 years is enough time for selective changes on human DNA that underlay human behavioral firmware. If not maybe the theory may need to be updated. If we see a new bird and call that evolution maybe it is too soon for fundamental change but only shallow change.

Liberalism has all the earmarks of a morph religion. The divided nature of that morphed religion; deny classic religion, could explain why they work so hard to separate from what they are unconscious of and cannot admit. The moth flying to the flame each day shows an attraction to what appears like a contradiction, to it own religious preservation; religious war. I like psycho-analyzing people who need help becoming whole.

I think it's part of language and involves symbolism and was motivated by man's quest for understanding. The documentation and practices that followed were more for record keeping and referral. Even today, long past the onset of religious thought, we have the sciences doing the same thing. The way we view religion today seems a gross misunderstanding in contrast to its purpose for development. The modern world views it as old superstitious fables developed by ignorant humans. I view religion quite a bit different than these types. To me, religion is no less credulous, deserving no less credence than physics and astronomy. Not that there aren't aspects of religious teachings that seem outdated, it's just that there were very good and valid reasons they were instituted among men.

 

[shunyadragon]

I have developed a way to bring science back to God. But for now, I am building a bridge one section at a time.

I see no effort on your part of building bridges to science. All I see is you burning bridges based and an ancient based agenda, and the intentional ignorance of science. Throw in associated atheism with science, and an aggressive paranoid campaign against atheists

We live in space-time where space and time work together like two people running a three legged race. A photon of energy has both wavelength and frequency that the mathematical product of which, is always proportional to the speed of light, no matter the wavelength or the frequency. They are tethered, with this tethering of space-time placing limits on physical reality that are expressed as the law of physics.

Say we a were to separate space-time into separated space and separate time, where each variable could act as an independent variable. Like in the three legged race, if we separated the two partners, both would have more capability, and the limits defined by the laws of physics and space-time could be exceeded.

Two world class sprinters running a three legged race could never run as fast as they can when separated. If you could move in space apart from time you could omnipresent which is a classic attribute of God. God, life and consciousness have a connection to separated space and separated time and its impact on space-time. If God could move in time without the constraints of space, while also being omnipresent, he become omniscience. And if God was to tether some of separated space and separated time into space-time, he could make photons; energy, for an entire universe; omnipotent. Separated space and time and space-time is a simple but complex addendum to physics that has a lot of future potential not just in applied science but also spirituality and harnessing the brain's full potential.

Not sure what your point is here. nothing in nature is a mathematical product. Math is part of the tool box of science to describe nature. Please explain what you are calling "tethering of space time limits on physical reality?" What would this have to do with a natural universe over 13 billion years old, the evolution of life over 3 billion years.

The interface between biological life and human consciousness, that lives between space-time, and separated space and separated time; divine realm, is the 2nd law or entropy. If you existed where space and time were not connected the amount of complexity becomes infinite, since there are no limitations like we have in space-time. The impact of the realm of separated space and time, would define infinite entropy, and would be the potential change we call the second law within space-time.

Huh!?!?!!?!

The universe was formless and void before space-time appears since all we had was separated space and separated time. There are no photons of energy. By tethering some of separated space and time to form space-time, energy appears; let there be light. Energy conservation is an artifact of space-time since energy is connected to space-time and only so much separated space and separated time was used. The second law, on the other hand states that the entropy for the space-time universe will increase with time. This appears to be the connection for change, matter, for life and for consciousness. Separated space and time is bringing our space-time universe, back to where it came.

Double Huh?!?!?!

That natural push to increase complexity; 2nd law interface, is very active in life and consciousness, and is the push to add the extra. We have this urge of life use our sensory systems, since this adds complexity; the extra, even beyond the DNA hard drive. Then via science and technology and civilization, there is a spirit of innovation to where we may even terrafirm planets some day. Consciousness is heading to higher human potential; advancement in all areas of knowledge.

This neural connection to separated space and time can be detailed in terms of how the brain works, based on the entropic potential neurons generate which express the 2nd law and change; leaning potential and consciousness. I tend to believe an update of the brain operating system is near so we can process more entropy; higher human potential and wisdom; organic AI.

Sounds like wandering here and there over a vague unexplained cosmology with a touch of speculation in Science Fantasy, Not really the subject of the thread. Also a poor understanding of the 2nd Law which applies only to a closed system.

 

[anotherneil]

I think the answer is yes, but it developed from deceptive brainwashing practices that involved having people believe in the existence of deities and a paradise afterlife for the personal benefit of those who did the brainwashing. It's instinct in the same way that the genetic "instructions" in spiders for how to make a web or in birds to build their nests in a certain way are instinctive to them - somehow DNA has a way of passing this kind of information from one generation to the next.

 

[shunyadragon]

I think the answer is yes, but it developed from deceptive brainwashing practices that involved having people believe in the existence of deities and a paradise afterlife for the personal benefit of those who did the brainwashing. It's instinct in the same way that the genetic "instructions" in spiders for how to make a web or in birds to build their nests in a certain way are instinctive to them - somehow DNA has a way of passing this kind of information from one generation to the next.

The simply answer to thee question is no. Our knowledge of the nature of our physical existence evolves, Our instincts have not evolved recently.

I believe the belief extends from two aspects of human nature. The first is the survival instincts of a social hierarchy of the family and tribe early in human history to deify the ruler and the perpetuation of the family authority even after death gives some certainty of social security need for survival

The second is the evolving human intellect to speculate on the known and unknown. The desire to know extends to the explanation of realms beyond the physical to explain even natural events like lightning, earth quakes and floods as retribution of failure to be in some way moral. It has been the habit in human history for rulers to use these threats and the people to bring account for rulers to failure to protect then.

The desire for immortality has always been a driving force going back to the Neolithic with ceremonial burial before their was a belief in Gods and animistic beliefs dominated.

the other big problem is different cultures evolved different religious beliefs of spiritual realms some like in the Orient did not evolve to anthropomorphic Gods of the Abrahamic religions of the west.

The evolution of human knowledge concerning the nature of our physical existence has removed many of the unknowns that in the ancient past. justified the existence of Gods. This has led to a rise of atheism and agnosticism where people believe there is no reason to believe. The other option is my belief that IF God exists. God is universal God beyond the comprehension or description of any ancient religions. The spiritual nature of humanity evolves.

The evolution of human knowledge has led those who hold to ancient religions to stoically either deny academic science and history with much name calling and denigration, rationally compromise their belief to make things fit science and history. Unfortunately sitting on the fence getting splinters in their butss leaves to many questions unanswered.

I belief human beliefs are still evolving and do not necessarily involve Gods, In fact the belief in anthropomorphic God or Gods is declining.

 

[anotherneil]

The simply answer to thee question is no.

I believe the belief extends from two aspects of human nature. The first is the survival instincts of a social hierarchy of the family and tribe early in human history to deify the ruler and the perpetuation of the family authority even after death gives some certainty of social security need for survival

The second is the evolving human intellect to speculate on the known and unknown. The desire to know extends to the explanation of realms beyond the physical to explain even natural events like lightning, earth quakes and floods as retribution of failure to be in some way moral. It has been the habit in human history for rulers to use these threats and the people to bring account for rulers to failure to protect then.

The desire for immortality has always been a driving force going back to the Neolithic with ceremonial burial before their was a belief in Gods and animistic beliefs dominated.
the other big problem is different cultures evolved different religious beliefs of spiritual realms some like in the Orient did not evolve to anthropomorphic Gods of the Abrahamic religions of the west.

I belief human beliefs are still evolving and do not necessarily involve Gods, In fact the belief in anthropomorphic God or Gods is declining.

Just a thought that occurs to me from your response - maybe there's an inverse correlation between the existence of things like religion and superstition and our scientific & intellectual "maturity". In other words, humanity will collectively become scientifically & intellectually mature when the existence of things like religion and superstition taper off.

 

[shunyadragon]

Just a thought that occurs to me from your response - maybe there's an inverse correlation between the existence of things like religion and superstition and our scientific & intellectual "maturity". In other words, humanity will collectively become scientifically & intellectually mature when the existence of things like religion and superstition taper off.

Possibly true, but also I believe there is the possibility of the evolution of human spirituality to become in harmony with a greater universal spiritual existence in harmony with our knowledge of the nature of our physical existence.

Unfortunately old ways die hard screaming and thrashing around in Plato's Cave.