Do I actually have a gender, ethnicity, Sexual orientation or nationality?

[Subhankar Zac]

It's been a few weeks since I learnt that all living beings are fragments of the supreme unmanifested truth, which is the true self.
But if the self is unmanifested within the material body, do gender, sexual orientation, race, ethnicity, color, status, nationality, etc should be valid identifiers for me?
I do not hate any of the aspects of my body but neither m I attached to these labels anymore.

 

[Valjean]

You need to live in the world you perceive, even if trying to transcend it,

 

[Father Heathen]

Nationality and race are social constructs.

 

[Subhankar Zac]

Nationality and race are social constructs.

Social and bodily labels are always temporary.

 

[LuisDantas]

It's been a few weeks since I learnt that all living beings are fragments of the supreme unmanifested truth, which is the true self.
But if the self is unmanifested within the material body, do gender, sexual orientation, race, ethnicity, color, status, nationality, etc should be valid identifiers for me?
I do not hate any of the aspects of my body but neither m I attached to these labels anymore.

Some of those have less substance than others, even by the transient parameters of everyday life.

Gender and sexual orientation are somewhat stable for many people, but it does vary. There are people that are very fluid in one or both, but most people are reasonably stable there.

Ethnicity is far more questionable. Nationality is little more than glorified fiction. Social status is literally something that other people give to us as it pleases them.

 

[Tumah]

It's been a few weeks since I learnt that all living beings are fragments of the supreme unmanifested truth, which is the true self.
But if the self is unmanifested within the material body, do gender, sexual orientation, race, ethnicity, color, status, nationality, etc should be valid identifiers for me?
I do not hate any of the aspects of my body but neither m I attached to these labels anymore.

I think according to your belief, inasmuch as you have a seperate identity outside the Self - as much as you percieve yourself as seperate, you also have gender, orientation, nationality, etc.

 

[sayak83]

It's been a few weeks since I learnt that all living beings are fragments of the supreme unmanifested truth, which is the true self.
But if the self is unmanifested within the material body, do gender, sexual orientation, race, ethnicity, color, status, nationality, etc should be valid identifiers for me?
I do not hate any of the aspects of my body but neither m I attached to these labels anymore.

Did Krishna tell Arjuna to act contrary to his socio-cultural-political-ethnic-professional position in life? Just because the Self transcends those labels does not mean that one should not act in the world and relate with others in the context of rights and responsibilities associated with your position in the social world.

 

[Subhankar Zac]

Did Krishna tell Arjuna to act contrary to his socio-cultural-political-ethnic-professional position in life? Just because the Self transcends those labels does not mean that one should not act in the world and relate with others in the context of rights and responsibilities associated with your position in the social world.

Chapter 3, Verse 17
One who is, however, taking pleasure in the self, who is illumined in the self, who rejoices in and is satisfied with the self only, fully satiated—for him there is no duty.

Chapter 3, Verse 18
A self-realized man has no purpose to fulfill in the discharge of his prescribed duties, nor has he any reason not to perform such work. Nor has he any need to depend on any other living being.

Those who know their reality, they have NO compulsion towards or against their physical attributes or the work associated with his qualities.
ONE has to act or work in order to survive even if he's self realised, but the identifications of the body become irrelevant.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

I just find it humorous how so many people, in a flurry to invalidate labels, do nothing more than make up new labels to replace the old ones.

We can't escape labels. The key is to give them their appropriate weight and place them in their appropriate context. Seems to be a skill in short supply these days.

 

[Subhankar Zac]

I just find it humorous how so many people, in a flurry to invalidate labels, do nothing more than make up new labels to replace the old ones.

We can't escape labels. The key is to give them their appropriate weight and place them in their appropriate context. Seems to be a skill in short supply these days.

We can very well escape it by realising the true self. Once the self is awaken, by no means will one be able to care about these labels as the actual truth is understandable to him.
Though he might still do his duties, still labels and compulsion towards material action is of no interest.
That's how I see it.

 

[lovesong]

You may not feel attacked to labels, you have to identify as something. If you just go around saying that your greater self transcends all labels, people are gonna look at you funny.

 

[LuisDantas]

You may not feel attacked to labels, you have to identify as something. If you just go around saying that your greater self transcends all labels, people are gonna look at you funny.

That is actually not a problem... for one who is sufficiently wise. Identities can and do arise out of immediate circunstances.

 

[Nous]

do gender, sexual orientation, race, ethnicity, color, status, nationality, etc should be valid identifiers for me?

You certainly have my blessing if you wish to disavow any of those designations. I’ll disavow most, if not all, of them along with you. By and large, those labels are applied to people in order to oppress them.

 

[Subhankar Zac]

You may not feel attacked to labels, you have to identify as something. If you just go around saying that your greater self transcends all labels, people are gonna look at you funny.

You mean the same people who divided this planet with imaginary lines?

 

[lovesong]

You mean the same people who divided this planet with imaginary lines?

I don't think they're imaginary at all. The words themselves may be socially constructed, but the ideas they represent are very real. The beliefs you carry have a name, the way you express yourself has a name, the group of people you associate with has a name, the place in the world you are from has a name. Religion, gender, nationality, ect. are just names for the things we affiliate with. Nobody says we have to let them separate us, but by no means are we all the same. We are all unique individuals and lining up our list of affiliations is how we both set ourselves apart as individuals and compare our similarities. Labels are made out to be such a horrible thing when in reality labels (or the idea of them) are good! Without labels we would all be like a factory-fresh phone, without a case, wallpaper, and other accessories, what makes mine unique from yours? The way labels are sometimes abused is bad, but not the labels themselves. We are not all the same, and it is important to recognize that, it only becomes a problem when we decide that those differences alone justify mistreating someone.

 

[Subhankar Zac]

I don't think they're imaginary at all. The words themselves may be socially constructed, but the ideas they represent are very real. The beliefs you carry have a name, the way you express yourself has a name, the group of people you associate with has a name, the place in the world you are from has a name. Religion, gender, nationality, ect. are just names for the things we affiliate with. Nobody says we have to let them separate us, but by no means are we all the same. We are all unique individuals and lining up our list of affiliations is how we both set ourselves apart as individuals and compare our similarities. Labels are made out to be such a horrible thing when in reality labels (or the idea of them) are good! Without labels we would all be like a factory-fresh phone, without a case, wallpaper, and other accessories, what makes mine unique from yours? The way labels are sometimes abused is bad, but not the labels themselves. We are not all the same, and it is important to recognize that, it only becomes a problem when we decide that those differences alone justify mistreating someone.

That's where I disagree.
We're all the same in the end. Inborn aspects live within our mind and other aspects created by our genes, some are created with the interaction of the 5 senses and the mind.
Underneath them all, we're the same.
The same soul lives with in us, lives in the body of an ant on this planet or in any othet planet

 

[lovesong]

That's where I disagree.
We're all the same in the end. Inborn aspects live within our mind and other aspects created by our genes, some are created with the interaction of the 5 senses and the mind.
Underneath them all, we're the same.
The same soul lives with in us, lives in the body of an ant on this planet or in any othet planet

I guess it just comes down to different religious/philosophical beliefs then. I believe that every living thing has a completely unique soul. Mine is different from yours is different from your dog's. They are similar in that they are all souls, but they're not interchangeable. I understand now how your ideas about labels make sense given your beliefs though!

 

[sayak83]

Chapter 3, Verse 17
One who is, however, taking pleasure in the self, who is illumined in the self, who rejoices in and is satisfied with the self only, fully satiated—for him there is no duty.

Chapter 3, Verse 18
A self-realized man has no purpose to fulfill in the discharge of his prescribed duties, nor has he any reason not to perform such work. Nor has he any need to depend on any other living being.

Those who know their reality, they have NO compulsion towards or against their physical attributes or the work associated with his qualities.
ONE has to act or work in order to survive even if he's self realised, but the identifications of the body become irrelevant.

See, I highly highly doubt that you have gone that point where you have realized the Self. The statement that you need not climb anymore when you have reached the mountain-top is not equivalent to the statement that you do not need to climb at all.

3:8
Perform your duty, for action is indeed better than non-action,
And even the mere maintenance of of your body could not be accomplished without action.
3:9
Aside from action for the purpose of sacrifice, this world is bound by action,
Therefore perform action as a Yajna, Arjuna, Free from attachment.

And now verse 3:17 to 3:19 in its correct context,
3:17
He whose delight is only in the Self, Whose satisfaction is in the Self, And who is content only in the Self, For him the need to act does not exist.
3:18
He has no purpose at all in action, or in non-action, and he has no need of any being for any purpose whatsoever.
3:19
Therefore, constantly unattached, perform the action that is your duty. Indeed, by performing action while unattached, man attains the Supreme.
3:20
Perfection was attained by kings like Janaka with action alone. For the maintenance of this world, you should act.

3:25
While those who are unwise act from attachment to action, O Arjuna,
So the wise should act without attachment, intending to maintain the welfare of this world.

People are not bound by labels of course. But even the unattached, if he/she is to act, has to choose a field of action and focus on that field as his/her sadhana-kshetra (field of disciplined action performed in the spirit of sacrifice).

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

As a non-dualist, I would say you are experiencing what those labels denote. You are not them on an intrinsic level. They are temporary masks that will be dissolved, as only consciousness remains. That doesn't mean they aren't important in their own right, as they are tools for learning and experience. As humans, we create labels in order to communicate.

As for how to deal with it, it's sort of like being of two minds. You maintain a more cosmic awareness of the impermanence of those things, but you also still maintain a level of awareness that is here now, "on this level". So you can recognize the underlying reality, but you are still able to function in it and gain the fruits of experience that you need. You really can have your cake and eat it, too!

 

[Subhankar Zac]

People are not bound by labels of course. But even the unattached, if he/she is to act, has to choose a field of action and focus on that field as his/her sadhana-kshetra (field of disciplined action performed in the spirit of sacrifice).

That just comes to the gunas and the passions of the being who's acting.
Doesn't mean the labels of today.
For instance, my passion is to work for the welfare of certain group of people.
I might or might not be related to them in anyway, but because I feel that they need to be helped, I will.
This doesn't include a label though, I think. But on the aspects of what I m given.