Do innocent sinful people go to hell?

[Etritonakin]

First of all, in Scripture, the word torment (Not torture) is used in connection Not to torture, but as a jailer was referred to as a tormentor - Matthew 18:34; Matthew 18:30

The temporary grave (biblical hell JKV ) and death are Not ' second death ' - Jude 1:12 ( twice dead )

Being imprisoned in ' second death ' to me means No resurrection but destruction as the wicked are to be destroyed forever -> Psalms 92:7; Matthew 12:32; Hebrews 6:4-6; 2 Peter 3:9

The definition of the lake of fire is: ' second death ' - Revelation 20:13-14
Jesus will ' destroy ' Satan - Hebrews 2:14 B
Satan also ends up in ' second death ' - Revelation 21:8
So, ' second death ' is a fitting term for destruction (Annihilation) for the wicked - Psalms 92:7

It's just not about what it means to you.
Also... Considering other posts in other threads.... I was wondering if your beliefs have been strongly influenced by some other source.
You are certainly free to believe as you do, but you might ask yourself if you are truly reading scripture with an open mind to "prove all things".
A Catholic upbringing and commonly-held beliefs often affected how I perceived what I was reading -and I still have to be wary of such.
Asking God to help me understand what is written was most important.

The lake of fire/second death actually does -and can potentially do -quite a few things.
Gehenna -the lake of fire -is the second death. It may seem logical that the second death must mean a permanent cessation of existence for all who are cast there, but it cannot be assumed.

Christ said that we ought no fear those who can destroy the body -but he who is ABLE to destroy both body and spirit in Gehenna. So we know the second death CAN be our permenant destruction -but that is not to say it WILL or MUST be.

We are told that the second death can and will cause torment/unpleasantness -and that the beast, false prophet and later Satan will be cast there to be tormented "for ever and ever".
Unless there is elsewhere some sort of 'unless, except or until', then that is exactly what will happen. If there be some sort of condition, it would be toward life or absolute death -cessation of life (and so also of torment).

The most important thing the second death does, however, is destroy death and the grave.
Death and the grave are cast into the lake of fire.

What is the destruction of death and the grave except raising those in their graves and giving them eternal life?
Will death be swallowed up in victory? Is death the LAST enemy to be destroyed?
As in Adam, all die. Even so in Christ will not all be made alive -every man in his own order?

We are told that some will "have their part" -or portion -in the lake of fire.
We are told that some will be saved -yet so as by fire.

It is important to note that all will be made alive -but in a specific order -which includes a specific timeline. Also... That enemies will be destroyed in a specific order -the last being death.
Destroyed, however, does not necessarily mean complete and utter cessation of life as it pertains to persons. Even the death of death is making it not death.
At least consider the possibility that destroying an enemy can mean making them no longer an enemy -one way or another -and that God would rather turn us than utterly destroy us.

The lake of fire/second death does a number of things according to a timeline and order.

Thus far -working backward -it destroys death and the grave. Before that, it tries men's works and those whose works were not good are saved -yet so as by fire (weeping, gnashing of teeth, etc.)

About that time, Satan is also cast there to be tormented even as men are saved by it.
Human death and the grave do not affect spirit beings -but Satan is cast into what is to humans the second death.
A thousand years prior, the beast and false prophet will have been cast there.
There they will be tormented without end -unless God has made some provision for bringing them to life or permanent death. That is between them and God.

Many men who have been "destroyed" during this time -by the flood, fire and brimstone, -even those who were deceived to make up the image of the beast, worship it and the beast, and receive the mark of it, etc., -though destroyed here and now -will be raised to the judgment after the thousand years. Many who have done good works, but we're not "in Christ" will also be raised to the same judgment.
Some will receive a reward -and some will be saved, yet so as by fire.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

It's just not about what it means to you.
Also... Considering other posts in other threads.... I was wondering if your beliefs have been strongly influenced by some other source.
You are certainly free to believe as you do, but you might ask yourself if you are truly reading scripture with an open mind to "prove all things".
A Catholic upbringing and commonly-held beliefs often affected how I perceived what I was reading -and I still have to be wary of such.
Asking God to help me understand what is written was most important.

The lake of fire/second death actually does -and can potentially do -quite a few things.
Gehenna -the lake of fire -is the second death. It may seem logical that the second death must mean a permanent cessation of existence for all who are cast there, but it cannot be assumed.

Christ said that we ought no fear those who can destroy the body -but he who is ABLE to destroy both body and spirit in Gehenna. So we know the second death CAN be our permenant destruction -but that is not to say it WILL or MUST be.

We are told that the second death can and will cause torment/unpleasantness -and that the beast, false prophet and later Satan will be cast there to be tormented "for ever and ever".
Unless there is elsewhere some sort of 'unless, except or until', then that is exactly what will happen. If there be some sort of condition, it would be toward life or absolute death -cessation of life (and so also of torment).

The most important thing the second death does, however, is destroy death and the grave.
Death and the grave are cast into the lake of fire.

What is the destruction of death and the grave except raising those in their graves and giving them eternal life?
Will death be swallowed up in victory? Is death the LAST enemy to be destroyed?
As in Adam, all die. Even so in Christ will not all be made alive -every man in his own order?

We are told that some will "have their part" -or portion -in the lake of fire.
We are told that some will be saved -yet so as by fire.

It is important to note that all will be made alive -but in a specific order -which includes a specific timeline. Also... That enemies will be destroyed in a specific order -the last being death.
Destroyed, however, does not necessarily mean complete and utter cessation of life as it pertains to persons. Even the death of death is making it not death.
At least consider the possibility that destroying an enemy can mean making them no longer an enemy -one way or another -and that God would rather turn us than utterly destroy us.

The lake of fire/second death does a number of things according to a timeline and order.

Thus far -working backward -it destroys death and the grave. Before that, it tries men's works and those whose works were not good are saved -yet so as by fire (weeping, gnashing of teeth, etc.)

About that time, Satan is also cast there to be tormented even as men are saved by it.
Human death and the grave do not affect spirit beings -but Satan is cast into what is to humans the second death.
A thousand years prior, the beast and false prophet will have been cast there.
There they will be tormented without end -unless God has made some provision for bringing them to life or permanent death. That is between them and God.

Many men who have been "destroyed" during this time -by the flood, fire and brimstone, -even those who were deceived to make up the image of the beast, worship it and the beast, and receive the mark of it, etc., -though destroyed here and now -will be raised to the judgment after the thousand years. Many who have done good works, but we're not "in Christ" will also be raised to the same judgment.
Some will receive a reward -and some will be saved, yet so as by fire.

Who assumes second death is Not a permanent death. Satan ends up in ' second death ' according to Revelation 21:8. Jesus destroys Satan according to Hebrews 2:14 B. So, ' second death ' is equal to annihilation as in the wicked ( Satan is wicked ) will be destroyed forever - Psalms 92:7

Being killed, murdered, slaughtered, bombed to death, etc. does Not have to mean destroyed.
Destroyed forever - Psalms 92:7 - is for the wicked who are executed by the words from Jesus' mouth - Isaiah 11:3-4; Revelation 19:14-16; Hebrews 6:4-6.
Those destroyed by Jesus are permanently destroyed - Psalms 92:7, and will have No resurrection.

We are nearing the soon coming ' time of separation ' on Earth, and only those judged by Jesus as righteous ones can continue to live on Earth, while the figurative haughty ' goats ' will be destroyed.
- Matthew 25:31-33,37; Psalms 92:7

Who is resurrected according to Acts of the Apostles 24:15 ?
Does it say the wicked will be resurrected, or rather it will be the just and unjust.
Those who commit the unforgivable sin are Not forgiven - Matthew 12:32

 

[Etritonakin]

Who assumes second death is Not a permanent death. Satan ends up in ' second death ' according to Revelation 21:8. Jesus destroys Satan according to Hebrews 2:14 B. So, ' second death ' is equal to annihilation as in the wicked ( Satan is wicked ) will be destroyed forever - Psalms 92:7

Being killed, murdered, slaughtered, bombed to death, etc. does Not have to mean destroyed.
Destroyed forever - Psalms 92:7 - is for the wicked who are executed by the words from Jesus' mouth - Isaiah 11:3-4; Revelation 19:14-16; Hebrews 6:4-6.
Those destroyed by Jesus are permanently destroyed - Psalms 92:7, and will have No resurrection.

We are nearing the soon coming ' time of separation ' on Earth, and only those judged by Jesus as righteous ones can continue to live on Earth, while the figurative haughty ' goats ' will be destroyed.
- Matthew 25:31-33,37; Psalms 92:7

Who is resurrected according to Acts of the Apostles 24:15 ?
Does it say the wicked will be resurrected, or rather it will be the just and unjust.
Those who commit the unforgivable sin are Not forgiven - Matthew 12:32

So... How do you reckon your belief that Satan is destroyed forever with the scripture that says he will be tormented for ever and ever?

Anyway.... We are not really getting anywhere with this.
Understanding what will happen to others later is not as important as seeking God now -so I wish you well in seeking your salvation.

 

[Etritonakin]

Who assumes second death is Not a permanent death. Satan ends up in ' second death ' according to Revelation 21:8. Jesus destroys Satan according to Hebrews 2:14 B. So, ' second death ' is equal to annihilation as in the wicked ( Satan is wicked ) will be destroyed forever - Psalms 92:7

Being killed, murdered, slaughtered, bombed to death, etc. does Not have to mean destroyed.
Destroyed forever - Psalms 92:7 - is for the wicked who are executed by the words from Jesus' mouth - Isaiah 11:3-4; Revelation 19:14-16; Hebrews 6:4-6.
Those destroyed by Jesus are permanently destroyed - Psalms 92:7, and will have No resurrection.

We are nearing the soon coming ' time of separation ' on Earth, and only those judged by Jesus as righteous ones can continue to live on Earth, while the figurative haughty ' goats ' will be destroyed.
- Matthew 25:31-33,37; Psalms 92:7

Who is resurrected according to Acts of the Apostles 24:15 ?
Does it say the wicked will be resurrected, or rather it will be the just and unjust.
Those who commit the unforgivable sin are Not forgiven - Matthew 12:32

It actually says it will not be forgiven them -not that they will never be forgiven it.

ALL will have a resurrection.

Joh 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Damnation = judgment.

Act 24:15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.

Unjust = wicked

Zep 3:9 For then will I turn to the people a pure language, that they may all call upon the name of the LORD, to serve him with one consent.

Jud 1:9 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

It is good to be zealous in defending the validity of scripture -but it is also good to acknowledge that you do not fully understand scripture.

Within scripture is written the mystery of God -and though it was written therein, it was hidden -and not to be fully understood until the days of the voice of the seventh angel -which means there is even still some which is not understood. The plan of God is not finished in those days -the mystery is finished -which means it will no longer be a mystery.

Rev_10:7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

Col 1:26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:

1Co 2:7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

Rom 16:25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
Rom 16:26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

Mar 4:11 And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:
Mar 4:12 That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.

Mar 3:29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:

That is a pronouncement of evil.... but is it ours to say who is evil? Is it ours to say there is no condition?
God has had prophesied many evils for many nations -but the following is true..

Jer 18:7 At what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to pluck up, and to pull down, and to destroy it;
Jer 18:8 If that nation, against whom I have pronounced, turn from their evil, I will repent of the evil that I thought to do unto them.
Jer 18:9 And at what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to build and to plant it;
Jer 18:10 If it do evil in my sight, that it obey not my voice, then I will repent of the good, wherewith I said I would benefit them.

Christ spoke in a way which was NOT to be understood by many -and God had scripture written in such a way as it would not be understandable to many -and would only be fully understood by some toward the end.

God had things written -but you cannot simply assume you know what those words mean.
He had them written -in imperfect languages -in such a manner as to require much study.

Eze 18:4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

Rom 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

 

[URAVIP2ME]

There is a difference between the just ( righteous ) and the unjust ( unrighteous ) and the wicked.
The wicked will be destroyed ( annihilated ) forever - Psalms 92:7

The just and unjust will have a resurrection - Acts of the Apostles 24:15. The wicked are Not mentioned.

What is impossible according to Hebrews 6:4-6 ?

 

[ronandcarol]

I am aware of what the Bible says about the wicked which is that if they do not accept Jesus and repent, they will go to eternal hell. But what about an innocent person who has lived a sinful life?
If a person has lived a sinful life, they are not innocent, they have transgressed God's law.
This person would be someone who lived a homosexual life or someone who lived a selfish life their entire life, but was still a kind and respectful innocent person towards others. This person never repented or anything because he/she thought that there was nothing wrong with his/her way of life.
Being selfish all your life and kind and respectful don't seem to fit the same personality. Someone who never repents because they think everything is right, is a sure sign that there are many things to learn about repenting and forgiveness. God's Grace and Mercy will free anyone from anything that has a hold on them.
He/she thought that it was not sinful at all because as long as he/she was kind and innocent towards others, he/she would think that what he/she is doing is not sinful and would not send him/her to hell at all.
Jesus said the the first commandment was to love God with all your Heart, soul and mind and the second was to love your neighbors as yourself. It is difficult to show all that love if you are classified as a selfish person all your life.
It would be the most cruel and unfair thing to send an innocent person to hell. Also, what about someone who has bad harmful thoughts towards others, but didn't harm anyone? Would they go to hell?
Jesus said if you are angry with your brother you will face judgement, if you hate your brother it is the same as murder. It would be cruel to send an innocent person to hell but let me tell you that you, me, any and all, ARE NOT INNOCENT! It states in the Bible that we are all sinners. We all have depraved hearts that think of nothing but sin all the time. But the good news is this, Jesus came to this earth to save sinners. He died on the cross for you and me, and rose from the dead to defeat death for all who choose to put their faith and trust in Him and Him only. So, repent of you sins and shortcomings and ask Jesus to have Mercy on your soul and forgive you. You will then be co-heirs with Jesus in life eternal.

ronandcarol

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

I am aware of what the Bible says about the wicked which is that if they do not accept Jesus and repent, they will go to eternal hell. But what about an innocent person who has lived a sinful life?

This person would be someone who lived a homosexual life or someone who lived a selfish life their entire life, but was still a kind and respectful innocent person towards others.

This person never repented or anything because he/she thought that there was nothing wrong with his/her way of life.

He/she thought that it was not sinful at all because as long as he/she was kind and innocent towards others, he/she would think that what he/she is doing is not sinful and would not send him/her to hell at all.

It would be the most cruel and unfair thing to send an innocent person to hell. Also, what about someone who has bad harmful thoughts towards others, but didn't harm anyone? Would they go to hell?

Nobody "goes" anywhere. Good people die, sinful people die, and everybody is -- to some extent -- both. And when they are dead, they aren't anymore. They are not "in heaven." They are not "in hell." They are -- quite simply -- not.

 

[Muffled]

I am aware of what the Bible says about the wicked which is that if they do not accept Jesus and repent, they will go to eternal hell. But what about an innocent person who has lived a sinful life?

This person would be someone who lived a homosexual life or someone who lived a selfish life their entire life, but was still a kind and respectful innocent person towards others.

This person never repented or anything because he/she thought that there was nothing wrong with his/her way of life.

He/she thought that it was not sinful at all because as long as he/she was kind and innocent towards others, he/she would think that what he/she is doing is not sinful and would not send him/her to hell at all.

It would be the most cruel and unfair thing to send an innocent person to hell. Also, what about someone who has bad harmful thoughts towards others, but didn't harm anyone? Would they go to hell?

I believe this person would go to Hell.

 

[Muffled]

You can be selfish and kind at the same time. For example, I am someone who lives for my own happiness since I am a hedonist, but I am a kind and respectful person towards my family and other innocent people at the same time.

I believe God will ignore whatever good you did and send you to Hell for disobedience.

 

[Muffled]

In Islam view God may would forgive ANY sin expect make a association with Him.

https://quran.com/4:116

I believe that is basically an equivalent to the Biblical blasphemy against the Holy Spirit because it denies the reality of God. However forgiveness will not keep a person out of Hell.

 

[Etritonakin]

There is a difference between the just ( righteous ) and the unjust ( unrighteous ) and the wicked.
The wicked will be destroyed ( annihilated ) forever - Psalms 92:7

The just and unjust will have a resurrection - Acts of the Apostles 24:15. The wicked are Not mentioned.

What is impossible according to Hebrews 6:4-6 ?

Heb 5:12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.
Heb 5:13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.
Heb 5:14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.
Heb 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
Heb 6:2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
Heb 6:3 And this will we do, if God permit.
Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Heb 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
Heb 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
Heb 6:7 For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:
Heb 6:8 But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.

After ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL of that -yep -that very truly would be the case -but you are not able to say to whom that applies -if any -and certainly not at this point.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Heb 5:12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.
Heb 5:13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.
Heb 5:14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.
Heb 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
Heb 6:2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
Heb 6:3 And this will we do, if God permit.
Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Heb 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
Heb 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
Heb 6:7 For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:
Heb 6:8 But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.

After ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL of that -yep -that very truly would be the case -but you are not able to say to whom that applies -if any -and certainly not at this point.

We are Not the Judge. To me, Jesus as the Shepherd of Matthew 25:31-33,37 does the separating judging,
Didn't Jesus teach that MANY would coming ' in his name ' but prove false at Matthew 7:21-23 ?

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I believe that is basically an equivalent to the Biblical blasphemy against the Holy Spirit because it denies the reality of God. However forgiveness will not keep a person out of Hell.

What is 'biblical hell' but the grave for the sleeping unconscious dead - Acts of the Apostles 2:27; John 11:12-14

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Heb 5:12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.
Heb 5:13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.
Heb 5:14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.
Heb 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
Heb 6:2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
Heb 6:3 And this will we do, if God permit.
Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Heb 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
Heb 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
Heb 6:7 For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:
Heb 6:8 But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.

After ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL of that -yep -that very truly would be the case -but you are not able to say to whom that applies -if any -and certainly not at this point.

We are Not to judge. To me, Jesus is the Shepherd who does the separating work of Matthew 25:31-33,37,
Jesus forewarned MANY would come 'in his name' but prove false at Matthew 7:21-23

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Nobody "goes" anywhere. Good people die, sinful people die, and everybody is -- to some extent -- both. And when they are dead, they aren't anymore. They are not "in heaven." They are not "in hell." They are -- quite simply -- not.

Certainly, to me, they are Not in some ' religious-myth hell ', but at death people do go to a 'biblical hell' ( grave )
At death they are -- quite simply -- not. Meaning: the dead know nothing -> Ecclesiastes 9:5
Jesus taught sleep in death as do the old Hebrew Scriptures - John 11:12-14; Psalms 115:17; Psalms 146:4
So, while the dead righteous Jesus was in 'biblical hell' he was in a sleeping state - Acts of the Apostles 2:27
The Bible holds out the resurrection hope.
Some called to heaven - Revelation 20:6; Revelation 5:9-10
The majority of mankind to have a happy-and-healthy physical resurrection restored by to life on Earth.
So, starting with calendar Day One of Jesus' coming 1,000-year governmental rulership over Earth enemy death will be No more for righteous mankind - 1 Corinthians 15:26; Isaiah 25:8

 

[1robin]

I am aware of what the Bible says about the wicked which is that if they do not accept Jesus and repent, they will go to eternal hell. But what about an innocent person who has lived a sinful life?

I am afraid you set off on a false assumption from the start here and therefor you will never resolve anything based upon a mix up in terms here.

Let me start by saying English words and our definitions for them do not have authority over the bible or God, it is the other way around.

So when you mention a category of truth called the sinful innocent you have stated a logical impossibility. To illustrate this you might as well have asked what is true of a married bachelor or a set of all possible infinite integers. Those terms do not describe anything that can possibly exist. Logical absurdities are absurd because they violate the law of non-contradiction but let me cut to the chase.

God holds anyone who has ever sinned (no matter how many times and no matter how serious) as guilty. He does not let innocent people into heaven because other than Christ no innocent human being has ever lived. There exists two categories of mortal humans, which all humans fall into.

The only grey area is possibly children, fetuses, of those incapable of understanding right and wrong enough to be held accountable in God's eyes. Yet these are not exactly innocent but are only held as unaccountable. Sin is a violation of objective moral truth. A child can easily have sinned yet they may very well not be accountable for that sin. But this category can not be really descripted as innocent since they really can be called sinful since they are unaccountable. They do not brake any spiritual or moral law since they are not held to be under the law.

However to sin we must be under the law. Yet everyone under the law is guilty. So the label innocent and sinful is a contradiction in terms and therefor does not exist. So to ask what is true of a category that does not exist is not going to get meaningful answers.

 

[Muffled]

What is 'biblical hell' but the grave for the sleeping unconscious dead - Acts of the Apostles 2:27; John 11:12-14

I believe Hell is the lake of fire. The grave has sometimes been mistranslated as Hell but it isn't.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I believe Hell is the lake of fire. The grave has sometimes been mistranslated as Hell but it isn't.

Your are not alone in thinking hell is the lake of fire, but please notice the definition of the lake of fire at Revelation 20:13-14. The lake is defined as: ' second death '.

Whereas the dead in biblical hell are ' delivered up '(KJV) meaning resurrected out of hell,- Revelation 1:18, then emptied-out hell is cast vacant into that symbolic lake of fire the second death.

Satan was never in biblical hell. Satan ends up in ' second death ' - Revelation 21:8
Jesus destroys sinner Satan - Hebrews 2:14 B
So, second death is a fitting term for destruction. Such as the wicked will be destroyed forever - Psalms 92:7

 

[The Transcended Omniverse]

I believe God will ignore whatever good you did and send you to Hell for disobedience.

Just what is it that I have disobeyed that makes me worthy of an eternal hell? I am nice and respectful and that is all that should ever be expected of me. As long as I don't go out harming others and making their lives miserable, then nothing more should be expected of me. That gives me every right to live for myself and for my own pleasure. I should easily get into heaven and I see absolutely no good reason to send me to an eternal hell.

That is, if this is a loving and respectful God who respects me and is cool with me. But if He is some cruel master who expects you to obey each and every one of his trivial and nonsensical commands, then that is a different story entirely. If this were a loving God, He would expect nothing more from me than for me to not harm others and to not make the lives of others miserable.

But if this is that type of cruel God, then He needs to learn to leave people the hell alone, be cool with their ways of life, and allow them to be free to live the lives they want as long as said way of life does not impose any harm on others. An example of a way of life that imposes harm would be how Hitler killed the Jews or perhaps some criminal going out into the world and harming/killing others.

As long as I don't go and do that, then there is no reason there should be any problems. I should have every right to live the hedonistic life I am living and there is no good reason whatsoever for a loving God to send someone like me to hell for eternity. This is a God who should just leave me alone, let me be, be perfectly fine with the way of life I am living, and send me to heaven for eternity after I die.

 

[The Transcended Omniverse]

I am afraid you set off on a false assumption from the start here and therefor you will never resolve anything based upon a mix up in terms here.

Let me start by saying English words and our definitions for them do not have authority over the bible or God, it is the other way around.

So when you mention a category of truth called the sinful innocent you have stated a logical impossibility. To illustrate this you might as well have asked what is true of a married bachelor or a set of all possible infinite integers. Those terms do not describe anything that can possibly exist. Logical absurdities are absurd because they violate the law of non-contradiction but let me cut to the chase.

God holds anyone who has ever sinned (no matter how many times and no matter how serious) as guilty. He does not let innocent people into heaven because other than Christ no innocent human being has ever lived. There exists two categories of mortal humans, which all humans fall into.

The only grey area is possibly children, fetuses, of those incapable of understanding right and wrong enough to be held accountable in God's eyes. Yet these are not exactly innocent but are only held as unaccountable. Sin is a violation of objective moral truth. A child can easily have sinned yet they may very well not be accountable for that sin. But this category can not be really descripted as innocent since they really can be called sinful since they are unaccountable. They do not brake any spiritual or moral law since they are not held to be under the law.

However to sin we must be under the law. Yet everyone under the law is guilty. So the label innocent and sinful is a contradiction in terms and therefor does not exist. So to ask what is true of a category that does not exist is not going to get meaningful answers.

Then that makes me like one of those children since I am unaware of whether what the Bible says is true or not. I am undecided when it comes to the existence of God, the afterlife, and the paranormal. So I should not be held under the law and condemned to hell over some sins that I have unknowingly committed. To me, just being nice, kind, not harming others, and not making the lives of others miserable is all that should be expected of me. I have every right to live for myself and for my own pleasure and I see absolutely no good reason why I should be condemned to hell.