No, I dislike Islam.
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Do Muslims want to Assimilate?
- Thread starter icehorse
- Start date
No, I dislike Islam.
Aquitaine
Well-Known Member
Correct. Although if terrorists continually justify their actions via a specific ideology - or branch thereof - it may be fair for people to start scrutinizing said ideology.
Indiscriminate generalizing of and hatred towards immigrants, along with peaceful subscribers of the same ideology is indeed foolish and bigoted.
I do not support knee-jerk hostility towards moderate members of a group just because extremists "members" are causing havoc.
Useless2015
Active Member
You call it foreign policies being enacted when an infant is struck by a bomb...This is exactly the reason why you and me will never agree.
Useless2015
Active Member
Go look up IRA or ETA.
MARCELLO
Transitioning from male to female
I know them very well,I am a bloody socialist. By the way,pls do not forget that I exactly and absolutely live in troubled 3rd world,in east Africa. Have you ever been?
Monitoring/observing things from Australia where you live,I guess, is a way away from the truth. Pls try to get out of the safe bubble that you are inside and see and realize the facts. Dare it,pls.
MARCELLO
Transitioning from male to female
Sorry,I could not know that muslims belong to Islam???. You are an editor,right? That means you are well off enough to spend a few weeks in muslim lands ,why not try? The worst thing you will have to have is a golden color tanned skin under this sun. There are millions of reasons why you cannot expect a muslim to change in a minute but once you like them,things do change.
It is up to you .
Please, stop with the condescension. I have friends who are Muslims, and your post is totally off topic.
Theocracy was probably always a bad idea, and it's certainly a bad idea in modern times. Sharia is a bad idea. Muslims leaders reject modern human rights in favor of Sharia. If you really want to demonstrate compassion, you should recognize that most of the world's Muslims are ruled by people who have fundamentally bad ideas about how to organize successful societies. Islam is - largely - the blueprint for these bad rulers. It would be fantastic if we could separate the religious facet of Islam from its political and legal facets. That would be a huge step in the right direction.
MARCELLO
Transitioning from male to female
So,let's ignore the 3rd world,survival of the fittest,right? that rougly makes 1/3 of world population but does not matter,we are powerful enough to nuke them,who cares about muslims,the backward ones? . Lets pretend that there are not any. Lets assume that all muslims due to their cultural obligations are all terrorists.What will change? Probably nothing.
For the theocracy thing, pls keep in mind that these people have nothing but theocracy,try to understand them. I did so far and am so satisfied.
Believe me or not,I am an expat living in Djibouti, a country ruled by sheria in hell like heat and I am a gay who encountered nothing but friendship from them. I am originally from Croatia but these muslims are friendlier than my country people.I talk with them about everything and they seem to understand everything. They hug me and I hug them.
Further more,pls do not misunderstand me,I know perfectly that religion harms people,especially the orthodox way. But that's what happening actually.
''Please, stop with the condescension'' I am so sorry to hear about sth like this as I am too civilized to be condemned for such a thing. Maybe it was my mistake that I could not express myself to you.Anyways,if you are really willing to spend a few days among muslims,my door is always open to you. I know that you are a good person.
Hey Marcello,
It seems we agree more than we disagree. I understand you when you say that for many Muslims, they know nothing but theocracy. I don't blame Muslims for this, I blame their so-called "leaders". But I want these theocracies to stop. IMO, we need to help Muslims throw off the theocracies under which they live.
It seems we agree more than we disagree. I understand you when you say that for many Muslims, they know nothing but theocracy. I don't blame Muslims for this, I blame their so-called "leaders". But I want these theocracies to stop. IMO, we need to help Muslims throw off the theocracies under which they live.
MARCELLO
Transitioning from male to female
Thank you for your descent thoughts.
It needs decades .....But it will work,don't worry. You should start from blaming nobody. Lets soften the theocracies rather than stopping them. Fear of God is such a powerful thing that ignoring it just makes the things worse. Lets make them love the God rather than trembling in front of Him.
Aquitaine
Well-Known Member
Don't play it like that, you know exactly what I mean.
Why is the bomb dropped in the first place? Because the military is there.
Why is the military there? Because they have been authorised.
Authorised by who? The military's government.
Why is the government authorising it? Because of its foreign policy in that region.
Just so I can better understand your position, what do you call it when the infant is killed by a jihadi suicide bomber?
Useless2015
Active Member
I honestly do not know what you mean. I could not care less about policies or politicians. A murderer is a murderer.
Terrorism.
Aquitaine
Well-Known Member
Good, just checking.
However, you can't criticize the UK's foreign policy (something I also do) and then turn around and say you're not interested in policies and politicians, especially when it is those politicians enacting those policies which leads to infants being bombed.
You may not realize this, but I do not support my country's foreign policy in the Middle East, so in actual fact we probably share more in common on this topic than we realise.
Tomorrows_Child
Active Member
I keep getting told that freedom of expression and the right to an opinion is a democratic, "western" right. So what if Muslims disagree with secularism? Why must Muslims be secular?
Now, I won't talk about the entire Muslim population of Europe but keep to my country, the UK. We make up every aspect of British society, from doctors and nurses to politicians (left and right wing) to taxi and bus drivers and even road sweepers. Is that not assimilation? How much more does one have to assimilate? outside of the Jews, we are the most well assimilated religious group in Britain. Especially when compared to Hindus or Sikhs who want to bring the racist caste system from India to the UK...sadly signed off by our great PM.
In fact, the majority of values Islam teaches: charity, kindness to strangers, hard work, honesty, looking after the elderly, the weak and the orphaned are all values slowly being depleted from many facets of British society. We are more British than the so called indigenous people.
However, a lot of this idea of "not assimilating" comes from the modern media and governments trying to create an us and them divide, which many foolish citizens fall for. To fuel a war economy, which Britain is, one must have a common enemy. That common enemy right now is us, Muslims. That's a difficult truth and one you must assimilate with.
The great new threat always advertised is that of radicalisation, with ridiculous ideas that "Oh Muslim women don't know English so their sons will be terrorists" or "those pesky Muslims come from countries where Islam is very extreme = terrorism". The reality is, one accepted by the British security services, that people from conservative Muslim backgrounds are the least likeliest to be radicalised. That's not an opinion, that is a well researched fact from the mouths of non-Muslims in the MI5.
So the question, do Muslims want to assimilate...is not a real question, because Muslims have already assimilated.
Hi TC -
The typical Muslim alternative to secularism is Sharia. Every time a Muslim in a secular country calls for Sharia - even a little bit of Sharia - they are not assimilating. They are not even integrating. They are attempting to undermine the society that has welcomed them.
Every time a Muslim calls for Sharia, they are creating an "us vs. them".
As far as whether Muslims have assimilated. Well, of course some have. And many have not.
The typical Muslim alternative to secularism is Sharia. Every time a Muslim in a secular country calls for Sharia - even a little bit of Sharia - they are not assimilating. They are not even integrating. They are attempting to undermine the society that has welcomed them.
Every time a Muslim calls for Sharia, they are creating an "us vs. them".
As far as whether Muslims have assimilated. Well, of course some have. And many have not.
Aquitaine
Well-Known Member
Secularism ensures no one religion is above the rest, it ensures both freedom of religion and (more importantly in my opinion) freedom from religion. The UK is nowhere near as secular as it should be, though.
This sounds a bit like:
Similar mentality, don't you think?
Any ideology can claim to promote an endless range of values, both positive and negative. Also I find your comment regarding the depleting values of "indigenous" Brits to be generalizing and divisive.
Not trying to challenge you here, just curious to read your source on the subject(?).
Tomorrows_Child
Active Member
Secularism does not ensure religious freedom. You may think it does but history proves otherwise.
And no, it's not the same mentality at all.
And my comment but indigenous Brits losing certain values is entirely true, the growing number of single mothers, fathers walking out on their children, the lack of charity without some material gain in return is a problem we all face. Politicians in Britain have spoken about it for years, a "return to British values". Those values are enshrined in Islam.
And if you want, google the MI5 report on terrorism 2008. It's pretty easy to find considering it was reported in the media at the time but not as widely as it should have been.
Anyway, you haven't countered any of my arguments. Why do you think Muslims need to assimilate more? What is assimilation in your eyes beyond holding hands with secularism.
Tomorrows_Child
Active Member
Surely this is a load of bollocks. Where have large groups of muslims campaigned for sharia in western or UK society? In London for example, a so called Muslim group called for sharia law, and about 15 people turned up in their favour. It's like people calling for socialism, communism and so on, it's their right, whether I or you disagree or agree with them.
And again, you haven't answered nay of my points. What do you say about Muslims in Britain being available in every walk of life and contributing to the economy, the culture and the work space. Is that not happening? Am I making it up?
And if it is happening, then what more do you ask for?
Tomorrows_Child
Active Member
Ah yes 2008, some 7 years before the British police admitted that they ignore crimes from certain demographics so that they wouldn't be seen as racists.
It had nothing to do with the British police, neither did it have anything to do with recognising crime. It was a report on identifying people most at risk of becoming radicalised. Maybe try reading the report next time. It might help.