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Do States Mean Anything Anymore?

Americans, do you feel any special loyalty to your State?

  • Yes

    Votes: 8 42.1%
  • No

    Votes: 6 31.6%
  • Sort of (explain)

    Votes: 5 26.3%

  • Total voters
    19

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
While reading the latest thread in which people are arguing over the Electoral College, it occurred to me that the real underlying issue is how many Americans relate to the concept of an individual "State" within the larger "United States" of which we are all part.

Most of us are aware that when this country was founded, each State considered itself sovereign and technically had the right to refuse to join the Union. We could have had 13 individual nations instead of a single nation, although none of them wanted to return to colonial control either. So, they compromised to form the American Union, but also agreed on the basic concept that each State had a certain level of autonomy and self-rule - because it was felt that it would be unfair for the larger, more populous States to rule over the smaller States.

There is also a certain practical side to it, as it is assumed that people who live in an area would be more aware of the needs and issues affecting that area than someone who is an outsider. It is presumed that people from Oklahoma know better about what their State needs than someone from New York or California.

The downside of it all is that not all State governments are/were committed to human rights and individual freedom as one might hope for. The "States' Rights" argument was used disingenuously to justify and defend slavery and other policies which violated human rights - and this led to the Civil War.

Prior to the Civil War, people often had their loyalty, patriotism, and identities tied to their individual States, not necessarily to "America" as a whole. Robert E. Lee, for example, would have remained a Union general if Virginia had not seceded from the Union, as his loyalty was tied to Virginia, not America.

After the Civil War, there was a great push towards national unity and patriotism - and many of the songs and imagery associated with Americana and US patriotism came out in the period after the Civil War and leading up to WW1. The idea of being loyal to just an individual State seemed irrelevant, since we were all US citizens and all part of "one nation." The Fourteenth Amendment also added some legal "teeth" to the concept that every citizen in the US had rights guaranteed by the Federal government, even if State governments tried to violate those rights.

Does anyone actually feel any particular loyalty to their State anymore? Would one's identity as a "Texan" be more important than identifying as "American"? I consider myself an American first, an Arizonan second. I don't have any loyalty to the State government, and in fact, there's many things about the State government I despise greatly. But there are also many things about the Federal government I despise greatly.

So, to sum it all up, I'd like to see others' views on how they relate to the concept of "States," particularly in light of recent misgivings about the Electoral College and the overall relationship of State governments balanced against the power of the Federal government. If we eliminate the Electoral College, would this indicate a fundamental shift in our national philosophy regarding the existence of "States"?
 

It Aint Necessarily So

Veteran Member
Premium Member
State meant nothing to me when I lived in the US, and even less now that I have no state - no American address, and no American drivers license.

Actually, country doesn't mean much either any more. It's pretty much down to local community and planet.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
I voted <yes> to the question posed in the thread's title.
States can extend us greater rights when the fed fails.
They place a limit on how far bad federal policies can harm us.
It's to not put all our eggs in one basket.

Example.....
When the USSC weakened the 5th Amendment in Kelo v New London,
many states stepped up to enhance property rights.
 

Kilgore Trout

Misanthropic Humanist
It doesn't apply to me, but it seems to apply to many people I've known to a greater or lesser degree. I've lived in a number of states and moved every couple of years growing up, so I never developed a sense of "home" connected to a particular location like most people.
 

Kemosloby

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
State meant nothing to me when I lived in the US, and even less now that I have no state - no American address, and no American drivers license.

Actually, country doesn't mean much either any more. It's pretty much down to local community and planet.

Yeah, it's like if the Empire won on Star Wars...
 

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
I voted <yes> to the question posed in the thread's title.
States can extend us greater rights when the fed fails.
They place a limit on how far bad federal policies can harm us.
It's to not put all our eggs in one basket.

Example.....
When the USSC weakened the 5th Amendment in Kelo v New London,
many states stepped up to enhance property rights.

Good point, although a lot of that depends on the individual State government. State and local governments can be just as much of a hindrance to rights as anything else, although one always has the option to move to another State.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Good point, although a lot of that depends on the individual State government. State and local governments can be just as much of a hindrance to rights as anything else, although one always has the option to move to another State.
An advantage is that states all watch what the others are up to.
This was the case in strengthing the 5th Amendment at the state level.
It was also true with gay marriage. I'll go further to say that state support
was what finally got the USSC on board, enabling gays to suffer marriage too.

So one state can experiment with a policy, & if successful, others can be inspired.
But all things originated with the fed, then alternative results couldn't be compared.
Worse yet, bad ideas would be implemented nationally, making for a costly learning curve.
 

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
State meant nothing to me when I lived in the US, and even less now that I have no state - no American address, and no American drivers license.

Actually, country doesn't mean much either any more. It's pretty much down to local community and planet.

Sometimes, I think along the same lines, although country does seem to have meaning on some level. At least for practical purposes, if I travel abroad, my US passport would be a necessary document. Even if it didn't mean anything for me personally, it does seem to have meaning for our government and for other governments around the world.

I do have an Arizona drivers license, though.
 

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
It doesn't apply to me, but it seems to apply to many people I've known to a greater or lesser degree. I've lived in a number of states and moved every couple of years growing up, so I never developed a sense of "home" connected to a particular location like most people.

Yes, that's another point I was thinking about. People move around a lot more these days and don't stay settled in one particular state or another. Their families may be scattered about all over the US, not all concentrated in a single area.
 

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
While reading the latest thread in which people are arguing over the Electoral College, it occurred to me that the real underlying issue is how many Americans relate to the concept of an individual "State" within the larger "United States" of which we are all part.

Kind of hostile towards my current state. The state government have personal agendas that their biggest concern is how to fund, so they keep trying to figure out was to increase state revenue.

It's not that easy to move, but I would if I had a chance to. I think if I found a state I could support, I'd be more likely to be loyal.
 

Jeremiahcp

Well-Known Jerk
In the dead of winter, in a cold you can feel in your bones, looking up at that big night sky of endless dark and innumerable stars over a world of snow and ice glistening in a soft moonlight, you know it means something to be a Montanan. I have never felt a peace more deep than standing in a field of waltzing snowflakes with no street lights, power-lines, roads or houses in sight. I think a connection to the land like that takes time to grow, years perhaps, and while visitors can marvel at the beauty, the land does not exist in their soul in the same way. You can look at a "state" as arbitrary lines on a map if you like, but I consider Montana my home.
 

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
An advantage is that states all watch what the others are up to.
This was the case in strengthing the 5th Amendment at the state level.
It was also true with gay marriage. I'll go further to say that state support
was what finally got the USSC on board, enabling gays to suffer marriage too.

So one state can experiment with a policy, & if successful, others can be inspired.
But all things originated with the fed, then alternative results couldn't be compared.
Worse yet, bad ideas would be implemented nationally, making for a costly learning curve.

I've noticed that with some issues, states get involved generally if there's enough national media attention to generate enough public support within individual states. In addition, the major political parties are not all that self-sufficient at the state level and still rely on support and guidance from their national leadership.

I've often wondered what it would be like if each state had their own political parties, such as the "Arizona Party" or the "California Party."
 

Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
A major focus of my religious path is cultivating relationships with what is local to me. I have a deep connection with the spirits here, and thus the spirit of this place. In the sense that "loyalty to my state" means "loyalty to the spirit of place," yes, absolutely relevant for me. I identify by the state I dwell in and by the city that I dwell in. I do not identify by the nation I dwell in.

All that said, this identification scheme doesn't necessarily have relevance when it comes to politics. I don't really care much about these human constructs, and could only be said to have political loyalty to my homeland insofar as the policies affect the spirit of the place. Something like the Electoral College seems entirely irrelevant to the spirits of place, but maybe it is relevant and I'm just not seeing it.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
I've noticed that with some issues, states get involved generally if there's enough national media attention to generate enough public support within individual states. In addition, the major political parties are not all that self-sufficient at the state level and still rely on support and guidance from their national leadership.

I've often wondered what it would be like if each state had their own political parties, such as the "Arizona Party" or the "California Party."
I don't see parties fracturing that way.
Aggregating gives them more power.
 

bobhikes

Nondetermined
Premium Member
I don't feel loyalty to any government whether it be Country or State but I feel a kinship to the state. State in this form means the culture, the geography and friends. When I go to another state or country I notice the differences and if I am gone for an extended time I miss certain aspects. As an adult I have lived in 4 states and only NJ is the one that I miss when left.
 
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