Do the teachings of Jesus promote poverty?

[savagewind]

From another thread two posters are in disagreement.

I have to say there is no way Jesus' teachings promote poverty! The reason why is poverty is a word for shortage and many other negative things.

I think he does promote a simple life. A simple life and a life lacking life's necessities are not the same.

 

[Estro Felino]

I totally agree

 

[Sees]

I think the "sell off everything you have" and "eye of a needle" type of verses are obviously teaching tools to "shock the senses, sink in the brain"...but we non-Christians still like to occasionally give Christians a hard time over it

It definitely has opened the door to forms of self-induced poverty per interpretation over the years.

 

[4consideration]

From another thread two posters are in disagreement.

I have to say there is no way Jesus' teachings promote poverty! The reason why is poverty is a word for shortage and many other negative things.

I think he does promote a simple life. A simple life and a life lacking life's necessities are not the same.

I agree.

 

[dawny0826]

From another thread two posters are in disagreement.

I have to say there is no way Jesus' teachings promote poverty! The reason why is poverty is a word for shortage and many other negative things.

I think he does promote a simple life. A simple life and a life lacking life's necessities are not the same.

I agree.

 

[jetset2]

Ever heard of Caesar"s messiah? and this quote, Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's. And they marveled at him.
Who was Jesus?
Why is there no historic archaeological evidence of his existence?

Who wrote the Gospels?
Why were they written in Greek, rather than Hebrew or Aramaic?

How did the Christian religion come to be centered in Rome? Why were the
first Christian pope and earliest saints all members of the Flavius Caesar
ruling family?

 

[savagewind]

Ever heard of Caesar"s messiah? and this quote, Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's. And they marveled at him.
Who was Jesus?
Why is there no historic archaeological evidence of his existence?

Who wrote the Gospels?
Why were they written in Greek, rather than Hebrew or Aramaic?

How did the Christian religion come to be centered in Rome? Why were the
first Christian pope and earliest saints all members of the Flavius Caesar
ruling family?

You are new. You have offered me three subjects for discussion that are not related to the question of this thread.

I'll take one because no one else is talking to me much. You will be sorry.

Caesar is that which controls commerce. God doesn't.
Jesus is he who knows YHVH. YHVH is most related to God, if not God.

I do not know that there is no archaeological evidence of his existence. There might be, but it is hidden. Who would spend their life looking for it and why?

 

[outhouse]

For those who agree.

It is doing nothing but taking the original statements of the unknown authors out of context for the cultural anthropology of the time.


It was not teaching poverty.

It was trying to cut off the Hellenistic overlords in Galilee who worked these people as slave labor, and to the point of starvation.


They were all in poverty ALREADY!, and Jesus methods made it so they might not all starve to death, and it would cut off the money flow to the Hellenist and Roman taxation.

He was trying to make it better not worse.

 

[savagewind]

For those who agree.

It is doing nothing but taking the original statements of the unknown authors out of context for the cultural anthropology of the time.


It was not teaching poverty.

It was trying to cut off the Hellenistic overlords in Galilee who worked these people as slave labor, and to the point of starvation.


They were all in poverty ALREADY!, and Jesus methods made it so they might not all starve to death, and it would cut off the money flow to the Hellenist and Roman taxation.

You are so cute!

He was trying to make it better not worse.

Really? He was?

 

[CMike]

Jesus said that you should share everything you have and give it to the poor. That promotes poverty.

 

[Estro Felino]

For those who agree.

It is doing nothing but taking the original statements of the unknown authors out of context for the cultural anthropology of the time.


It was not teaching poverty.

It was trying to cut off the Hellenistic overlords in Galilee who worked these people as slave labor, and to the point of starvation.


They were all in poverty ALREADY!, and Jesus methods made it so they might not all starve to death, and it would cut off the money flow to the Hellenist and Roman taxation.

He was trying to make it better not worse.

That's why I insist on saying that Cleopatra and the Hellenistic conception of common welfare anticipated the birth of Christianity.
The war between Mark Anthony and Octavian is much more than stupid relative's rivalry. It was the battle between two economic ideologies:
- The Hellenistic one. Based upon monarchy, in which a tyrant protected the poor and prevented the rich from becoming richer than they already were.

-The Roman one. Based upon senatorial oligarchy, in which the private law allowed the rich and the nobles to become richer at cost of people's poverty. Through societates publicanorum, taxation, latifundism.


You are right when you say that the Hellenists founded Christianity. It is absolutely true. And I am sure that Mary, mother of Christ was an admirer of Cleopatra.

 

[savagewind]

Jesus said that you should share everything you have and give it to the poor. That promotes poverty.

No. Poverty is a condition of need. He was teaching against things. Actually I believe he never said sell your things and then give the money made from them to the poor. I think he said sell whatever you can, the rest, give it away. We all know our things take time to accumulate and to take care of. If a person has valuables he must worry about them being stolen and even being killed for them.

Please see the synonyms for poverty. The apostle who wrote do not give your surplus to help others did not believe Jesus said anything about living with less than you need which is the real definition of poverty.

 

[Estro Felino]

Jesus said that you should share everything you have and give it to the poor. That promotes poverty.

Even in the Old Testament it is written: Nobody shall be poor among you.
It doesn't mean that we have to give all that we have to the poor, so they can live decently.
It means that we are supposed to take care of the poor, so they can get a job and earn the money the work for.
We are supposed to bring social justice. But given that money is not inexhaustible, we cannot allow that rich people become richer than they already are.
Because they unavoidable become rich at cost of people's poverty.

 

[CMike]

From Luke 18:22

One thing you still lack; sell all that you possess and distribute it to the poor, and you shall have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me."

 

[CMike]

Even in the Old Testament it is written: Nobody shall be poor among you.
.

Citation please?

 

[savagewind]

From Luke 18:22

One thing you still lack; sell all that you possess and distribute it to the poor, and you shall have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me."

That is someone's translation. See the most original. Luke 18:22 Greek Text Analysis

"all" all (731), all the things (7), all...things (1), all kinds (1), all men (14), all people (4), all respects (3), all things (126), all* (1), always* (3), any (16), any at all (1), anyone (3), anything (3), anything* (1), continually* (6), entire (4), every (128), every form (1), every kind (9), every respect (1), every way (2), everyone (71), everyone's (1), everyone* (1), everything (45), forever* (1), full (2), great (2), no* (15), none* (1), nothing (1), nothing* (1), one (4), perfectly (1), quite (1), whatever (3), whatever* (1), whoever (7), whole (18).

To me it means whatever prevents you from following me.

"as much as" all (9), all...who (5), all things (1), all who (6), all* (1), degree (1), extent* (2), great (1), how much (2), inasmuch* (3), long (2), many (11), more (1), much (3), so (1), so much (1), those who (3), those whom (1), very...while (1), what (2), what great things (4), whatever (14), whatever* (4), which (3), while (1), who (6).

It means every kind of thing, don't worry, to the extent that you are free.

Not everything. To assume he meant sell it all is assuming. And many people assume so for some people he was promoting living with nothing, but it is not what he said.

 

[Sapiens]

As an atheist I have no dog in this particular fight. It does seem to me that the Bible and other writings that I've gone through, that relate to Christian thinking, promote simplicity and argue against the 1% rather than suggest that being destitute is the way to go.

 

[savagewind]

Citation please?

Deuteronomy 15:4 However, there need be no poor people among you, for in the land the LORD your God is giving you to possess as your inheritance, he will richly bless you, Deuteronomy 15:4

Proverbs 3:10
then your barns will be filled to overflowing, and your vats will brim over with new wine.

 

[outhouse]

You are so cute!

Really? He was?

How much of this poverty promoting do you think, poverty stricken people would promote?


How much of these sayings are related to John the Baptist movement or Jesus, and how much are the Hellenist authors reflecting?

 

[CMike]

That is someone's translation. See the most original. Luke 18:22 Greek Text Analysis

"all" all (731), all the things (7), all...things (1), all kinds (1), all men (14), all people (4), all respects (3), all things (126), all* (1), always* (3), any (16), any at all (1), anyone (3), anything (3), anything* (1), continually* (6), entire (4), every (128), every form (1), every kind (9), every respect (1), every way (2), everyone (71), everyone's (1), everyone* (1), everything (45), forever* (1), full (2), great (2), no* (15), none* (1), nothing (1), nothing* (1), one (4), perfectly (1), quite (1), whatever (3), whatever* (1), whoever (7), whole (18).

To me it means whatever prevents you from following me.

"as much as" all (9), all...who (5), all things (1), all who (6), all* (1), degree (1), extent* (2), great (1), how much (2), inasmuch* (3), long (2), many (11), more (1), much (3), so (1), so much (1), those who (3), those whom (1), very...while (1), what (2), what great things (4), whatever (14), whatever* (4), which (3), while (1), who (6).

It means every kind of thing, don't worry, to the extent that you are free.

Not everything. To assume he meant sell it all is assuming. And many people assume so for some people he was promoting living with nothing, but it is not what he said.

I don't understand Greek so seeing it in original greek really doesn't help.

However, if you do the to me it means whatever thingie, then it really belittles what he said.

If it can mean anything, then it really means nothing.