Do they shake their heads?

[Theweirdtophat]

I've always thought how disappointed some of the gods and goddesses must be when they look at Earth. Whether it's Ganesha, Danu, Jesus, Yahweh, Allah ect, or even prophets, sages and gurus, like Guru Nanak or The Buddha. I wonder what do they think when they see Earth. They see violence and people going against each other's throats. Almost every religion preaches about peace, and you think it'd be unheard of to see groups who preach peace to be going against each other.

However groups are often manipulated by people who have their own agenda and have the people persecute and fight others. It shouldn't be this way and yet it is. The deities, prophets, gurus and sages gave us great directions on how to lead a peaceful life. Druidism Hinduism, Christianity, Islam Buddhism ect. give great guidelines and yet some people have thrown them away and allowed themselves to be manipulated by corrupt people.

If you're a Christian who bashes a Muslim or vice versa or if you're a Buddhist who bashes a Wiccan or vice versa or something, always think, what would your deity or sage think of you when you criticize one who belongs to another faith? Don't you think they'd be disappointed? Don't you think they'd be shaking their heads saying, "I thought you knew better." But not too many people think when they do these things, they just do it. One should think before they do something.

 

[Sultan Of Swing]

I've always thought how disappointed some of the gods and goddesses must be when they look at Earth. Whether it's Ganesha, Danu, Jesus, Yahweh, Allah ect, or even prophets, sages and gurus, like Guru Nanak or The Buddha. I wonder what do they think when they see Earth. They see violence and people going against each other's throats. Almost every religion preaches about peace, and you think it'd be unheard of to see groups who preach peace to be going against each other.

However groups are often manipulated by people who have their own agenda and have the people persecute and fight others. It shouldn't be this way and yet it is. The deities, prophets, gurus and sages gave us great directions on how to lead a peaceful life. Druidism Hinduism, Christianity, Islam Buddhism ect. give great guidelines and yet some people have thrown them away and allowed themselves to be manipulated by corrupt people.

If you're a Christian who bashes a Muslim or vice versa or if you're a Buddhist who bashes a Wiccan or vice versa or something, always think, what would your deity or sage think of you when you criticize one who belongs to another faith? Don't you think they'd be disappointed? Don't you think they'd be shaking their heads saying, "I thought you knew better." But not too many people think when they do these things, they just do it. One should think before they do something.

Jesus said He is the Way, the Truth and the Life. Jesus told His disciples to go out and preach to the nations the good news.

Caring for another person's salvation is something Jesus would approve of, for He has instructed us to go out and preach it ourselves.

The world is fallen, and God will make it new one day. Jesus has given us commandments, to love God and to love our neighbour. Of our own efforts we cannot follow them, in fact all of us deserve judgement for our rebellion against God, and only by His grace can we be saved in this broken world.

 

[Sapiens]

Jesus said He is the Way, the Truth and the Life. Jesus told His disciples to go out and preach to the nations the good news.

Caring for another person's salvation is something Jesus would approve of, for He has instructed us to go out and preach it ourselves.

The world is fallen, and God will make it new one day. Jesus has given us commandments, to love God and to love our neighbour. Of our own efforts we cannot follow them, in fact all of us deserve judgement for our rebellion against God, and only by His grace can we be saved in this broken world.

There's a whole passel of unsupported claims there, reads more like the outline for a fantasy novel that something a person should take seriously.

 

[Sultan Of Swing]

There's a whole passel of unsupported claims there, reads more like the outline for a fantasy novel that something a person should take seriously.

I was answering within the Christian worldview of course, there wasn't much of a need to substantiate claims when asked a question that already assumes the worldview in question.

The claims are not unsupported, the resurrection itself raises a large number of questions that historians cannot answer unless they accepted the resurrection itself.

EDIT: but let's not de-rail this thread

 

[Sultan Of Swing]

There's a whole passel of unsupported claims there, reads more like the outline for a fantasy novel that something a person should take seriously.

And on another note, simply because something reads like a novel, does that make it untrue? If everything was running according to a greater divine narrative, is that such a surprise? The reading like a novel objection really depends on the theistic claim being untrue to begin with. If the theistic claim is true, it isn't that surprising.

And there's all sorts of stuff that is true that sounds like fantasy. Things only become reality (or collapse the wave function ) when I look at them? We can use light to transmit our voices and our faces across the world and communicate with each other? In the past, there used to live these huge monstrous creatures which looked like dragons? Sounds like fantasy to me.

 

[Sapiens]

I was answering within the Christian worldview of course, there wasn't much of a need to substantiate claims when asked a question that already assumes the worldview in question.

The claims are not unsupported, the resurrection itself raises a large number of questions that historians cannot answer unless they accepted the resurrection itself.

EDIT: but let's not de-rail this thread

I don't know why you think that an unsupported Christian world view means diddly-squat in a multi religious and non religious site.

The resurrection supports nothing unless it can be demonstrated to have occurred, an impossible task my experience.

 

[Koldo]

I've always thought how disappointed some of the gods and goddesses must be when they look at Earth. Whether it's Ganesha, Danu, Jesus, Yahweh, Allah ect, or even prophets, sages and gurus, like Guru Nanak or The Buddha. I wonder what do they think when they see Earth. They see violence and people going against each other's throats. Almost every religion preaches about peace, and you think it'd be unheard of to see groups who preach peace to be going against each other.

However groups are often manipulated by people who have their own agenda and have the people persecute and fight others. It shouldn't be this way and yet it is. The deities, prophets, gurus and sages gave us great directions on how to lead a peaceful life. Druidism Hinduism, Christianity, Islam Buddhism ect. give great guidelines and yet some people have thrown them away and allowed themselves to be manipulated by corrupt people.

If you're a Christian who bashes a Muslim or vice versa or if you're a Buddhist who bashes a Wiccan or vice versa or something, always think, what would your deity or sage think of you when you criticize one who belongs to another faith? Don't you think they'd be disappointed? Don't you think they'd be shaking their heads saying, "I thought you knew better." But not too many people think when they do these things, they just do it. One should think before they do something.

If they existed, some of us would be severely disappointed with them, particularly the creator gods who created this mess to begin with. So I guess that makes us even, doesn't it?

 

[Theweirdtophat]

If they existed, some of us would be severely disappointed with them, particularly the creator gods who created this mess to begin with. So I guess that makes us even, doesn't it?

It depends if you believed they even created us or the world.Humans messed this up. Don't we have free will? Some of them abused it. Deities, prophets, sages and gurus offered advice as well but some turned it down.

I see the deities, prophets, sages and gurus to be like teachers. They helped teach humanity how one should live and how to be at peace. Some listened and some didn't.

 

[Koldo]

It depends if you believed they even created us or the world.Humans messed this up. Don't we have free will? Some of them abused it. Deities, prophets, sages and gurus offered advice as well but some turned it down.

I see the deities, prophets, sages and gurus to be like teachers. They helped teach humanity how one should live and how to be at peace. Some listened and some didn't.

The world is messed up to begin with. Regardless of war, violence and even humans themselves.
When the deities decide to become mere teachers, rather than fixing up the mess themselves, it just adds insult to injury.
And then we get a lot of different ( contradicting ) interpretations on their teachings, because they don't even talk directly to their students, and some of them allow for war and violence under certain conditions.

 

[bain-druie]

I think it depends on what one sees as the 'purpose' for this world [if one believes in purpose, that is]. Disappointment requires unmet expectation; this world has no inherent moral value, and therefore those of us who do not expect morality from it are not disappointed. We see beauty in the grace of a great cat leaping, all the while aware that same grace brings messy, ugly death to other creatures - often the sick, weak, or helpless that got left behind their herds. It's tragic, it offends our sense of justice and beauty, yet we do not hate the predator for being what it is.

Same with this world. We know death and tragedy wait behind every breathtaking vista or sublime moment; we know we will be in pain, we'll be full of rage over injustice, we will face devastating grief. That's part of what this world is about, and raging against it brings nothing but delusion and pain that is wholly unnecessary - why heap that on top of the pain that's inevitable?

For my part, I don't hold an expectation of morality from this world, since I believe this is a teaching place; a place for learning lessons important for making progress in the journey of the soul. I also don't believe my 'gods' and 'goddesses' created either this world or my soul; I believe they're more advanced souls who can function as teachers or guides. I don't ascribe any 'omni's to them, so I have no anger against them for failing to maintain their own standards of 'perfection' (as in the case of the christian god, for example).

I also subscribe to the increasingly popular theory of the Multiverse, in which the possibilities and potentialities are infinite. In that case, this is just one of many, many realms. Some physicists believe it to be a hologram; perhaps it is, perhaps that's just another side of the prism we're trying to understand as a whole.

Not all druids necessarily believe as I do, and that's fine. I formulate my beliefs based on the evidence available to me, and I have no expectation that my view is infallible or even applicable to everyone. But it does make sense to me, and I am content with that.

 

[Sultan Of Swing]

I don't know why you think that an unsupported Christian world view means diddly-squat in a multi religious and non religious site.

The resurrection supports nothing unless it can be demonstrated to have occurred, an impossible task my experience.

Have you even read the OP? The point is asking what God would think over what we do, and so the Christian worldview is very relevant.

The Apostles' sacrifice for their witness of the Resurrection shows they truly believed it happened, that they saw it with their own eyes. There's no explanation for that.

 

[Sapiens]

There is no god(s) so the question is moot and rather a waste of time.

 

[Theweirdtophat]

"There is no god(s) so the question is moot and rather a waste of time."

Why are you even on this thread? Don't you think you're wasting your time as well as everyone else's with such an inaccurate rude answer? You would have been better off if you didn't say anything.

 

[bain-druie]

The Apostles' sacrifice for their witness of the Resurrection shows they truly believed it happened, that they saw it with their own eyes. There's no explanation for that.

There are several explanations for that which are more credible than believing a supernatural event to have occurred with no other substantiation. Delusion springs to mind first; given first-century Palestine's cultural context, it's easy to see how a mass delusion involving messianic figures could easily have occurred with more than one of those figures. (Simon bar Kochba, for instance, off the top of my head.)

No one doubts that if in fact the Apostles did sacrifice their lives, they certainly were sincere in their beliefs; nonetheless, many people believe things and are sincerely wrong.

 

[Sultan Of Swing]

There are several explanations for that which are more credible than believing a supernatural event to have occurred with no other substantiation. Delusion springs to mind first; given first-century Palestine's cultural context, it's easy to see how a mass delusion involving messianic figures could easily have occurred with more than one of those figures. (Simon bar Kochba, for instance, off the top of my head.)

No one doubts that if in fact the Apostles did sacrifice their lives, they certainly were sincere in their beliefs; nonetheless, many people believe things and are sincerely wrong.

How would eleven men be deluded all witnessing the same thing, speaking to Jesus, even eating with Him?

People die for things all the time, even if their belief is sincere it doesn't make it true, but it depends what it is they are believing in. What makes the Apostles' case special is that they are dying for their own eye-witness, what they have seen before their eyes. Can you name some mass delusion that was in any way similar? Where the people didn't go crazy, but remained very much rational (read any of the Apostles' letters), and changed their lives to give up everything for their Lord and preach?

 

[viole]

How would eleven men be deluded all witnessing the same thing, speaking to Jesus, even eating with Him?

People die for things all the time, even if their belief is sincere it doesn't make it true, but it depends what it is they are believing in. What makes the Apostles' case special is that they are dying for their own eye-witness, what they have seen before their eyes. Can you name some mass delusion that was in any way similar? Where the people didn't go crazy, but remained very much rational (read any of the Apostles' letters), and changed their lives to give up everything for their Lord and preach?

Have you given up EVERYTHING for you Lord and preached?

If not. What not?

Ciao

- viole

P.S. That stratocaster is worth a lot of money.

 

[Theweirdtophat]

I think it depends on what one sees as the 'purpose' for this world [if one believes in purpose, that is]. Disappointment requires unmet expectation; this world has no inherent moral value, and therefore those of us who do not expect morality from it are not disappointed. We see beauty in the grace of a great cat leaping, all the while aware that same grace brings messy, ugly death to other creatures - often the sick, weak, or helpless that got left behind their herds. It's tragic, it offends our sense of justice and beauty, yet we do not hate the predator for being what it is.

Same with this world. We know death and tragedy wait behind every breathtaking vista or sublime moment; we know we will be in pain, we'll be full of rage over injustice, we will face devastating grief. That's part of what this world is about, and raging against it brings nothing but delusion and pain that is wholly unnecessary - why heap that on top of the pain that's inevitable?

For my part, I don't hold an expectation of morality from this world, since I believe this is a teaching place; a place for learning lessons important for making progress in the journey of the soul. I also don't believe my 'gods' and 'goddesses' created either this world or my soul; I believe they're more advanced souls who can function as teachers or guides. I don't ascribe any 'omni's to them, so I have no anger against them for failing to maintain their own standards of 'perfection' (as in the case of the christian god, for example).

I also subscribe to the increasingly popular theory of the Multiverse, in which the possibilities and potentialities are infinite. In that case, this is just one of many, many realms. Some physicists believe it to be a hologram; perhaps it is, perhaps that's just another side of the prism we're trying to understand as a whole.

Not all druids necessarily believe as I do, and that's fine. I formulate my beliefs based on the evidence available to me, and I have no expectation that my view is infallible or even applicable to everyone. But it does make sense to me, and I am content with that.

That's just about the same beliefs I have. I always thought they were really more like teachers to help guide us.

 

[bain-druie]

How would eleven men be deluded all witnessing the same thing, speaking to Jesus, even eating with Him?

People die for things all the time, even if their belief is sincere it doesn't make it true, but it depends what it is they are believing in. What makes the Apostles' case special is that they are dying for their own eye-witness, what they have seen before their eyes. Can you name some mass delusion that was in any way similar? Where the people didn't go crazy, but remained very much rational (read any of the Apostles' letters), and changed their lives to give up everything for their Lord and preach?

Where to start ...

As a matter of fact, I have read and studied the letters of the apostles - which, first of all, we're making a huge leap in even acknowledging as such, given the extremely sparse textual historical evidence (one fragment of the gospel of John, dating to 90-odd years after Yeshua was supposed to have ascended; hardly persuasive by any rational standard).

Look up mass delusions; far greater numbers than 11 have suffered the same delusional episodes, more times than can be counted. [I have patients to attend to, so I have no time right now to give you references you can easily find if you choose to be objective in your search.] Mass hysteria is a common phenomenon, nothing special about that; one person says 'THIS JUST HAPPENED, AND IT WAS LIKE THIS!' And the next person says, 'I KNOW! IN FACT, IT WAS EVEN MORE AMAZING, BECAUSE OF THIS-THIS!' And on and on around and around, each collaborating the elaborations of the last pronouncement and building upon it.

You insult every martyr from every other faith that has died with just as much passion and sincerity as any christian, when you insist on exclusivity. There is nothing more special (or less special) about any life or any death, because each one has intrinsic value. Some are avoidable tragedies, that's all.

 

[Sultan Of Swing]

Have you given up EVERYTHING for you Lord and preached?

If not. What not?

Ciao

- viole

P.S. That stratocaster is worth a lot of money.

Not all Christians were called to go around the world preaching and giving up all their possessions. There were those who were of course members of the local congregation, and while all Christians have a duty to spread the Gospel, not all are called to the sort of radical office that the Apostles were, as I'll show further down.

I do believe though that all my possessions are not mine, but are the Lord's and should be used, ultimately, for the glory of God.

Now, Paul teaches in his letter to the Ephesians "Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth."

Here it is shown that it is good to work, and to earn money, with the ultimate goal being to glorify God and helping others. The love of money is a root of evil, but at the same time hard work and diligence is virtuous.

It certainly isn't easy, there are a thousand other things you could pick out about my life that I don't do well, haha, though sanctification is a process and believers, while not perfect in their acts as of yet, are being transformed from glory to glory into the image of the Lord.