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Do you as a Muslim believe in women's equality?

Robert.Evans

You will be assimilated; it is His Will.
You are not alone. :yellowheart:
haha.... so the gang-mentatlity begins to form does it. First know your enemy, attack him, and then you find your friends. We all have to have an enemy do we? That is how we off load our own problems onto others and bond with those around us... wonderful
 

Robert.Evans

You will be assimilated; it is His Will.
I'm the one who asked the question. Why wouldn't I understand?
Ok. Lets try something different here. Are you just pulling our legs? Are you serious? Joking? Or do you actually believe the way you portray yourself in your numerous posts?
Then you have not framed it correctly. Because there was a definite change in the statement from one insult in gest, to an insult not in guest. My grammer is not brilliant, but if I have to I will look it up.
 

Robert.Evans

You will be assimilated; it is His Will.
Families break up all the time, before and after feminism. Families still exist today, women and men still parent, raise, nurture and protect the young. Nothing has changed.
You know the vote rights is based on the idea that laws have to be obeyed. Since men got to choose which laws to support it seemed only fair that women got that say too. After all they had to obey said laws as well. Unless you think it fair that I come over and dictate law and you get no say, just obey?
I have given evidence to the contrary.
 

Robert.Evans

You will be assimilated; it is His Will.
Ahh such generalizations.
So? Every government starts with the many and then deals with the few.
Like I said, men blaming women for everything when it's not needed are weak as ****.
You are vulgar to the extreme. But a clever ploy. You turn mens machoness onto themselves, so now, to be tough, they have to be weak. Clever. Are they to dumb to work that out where you are, or do they just want a peaceful life. Manipulating women, like I say.
Presumably you are working class, Im guess the lower end, right?
If you read what I wrote I actually gave legitimate reasons for a man to leave and some of those included said that the women were at fault. (Abuse etc.) But I gave equal blame to scenarios where the man could have been the cause. Like I said you cannot say personally why specific families have broken up. All you have is correlation at best.
No one is saying that an abusive relationship should be endured if all else fails.
 

Robert.Evans

You will be assimilated; it is His Will.
I do. My Uncle was a Fundamentalist Preacher for over 40 years. He can quote verbatim all the Bibles. He is the one who taught me the Bibles in the first place. He also outlined in esquisite detail the various strategies that priests often employ to "control" their flock. It was an interesting behind the scenes look, I must say.
By your own admition, you don't. If you did you would not be arguing with me. To understand it , you would have to be able to discern it, and you can't, as you don't belong to the lord. That is obvious.
 

oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
I am arguing for what is best for the greater society, and I have given evidence for it. You have given none.
Hi Robert.....
Earlier, in another post, you wrote about 'the lower working classes'. For God's sake, Robert, we've been pulling that old dinosaur of a society apart and burying it for the last 50 years, and now we are actually getting somewhere.
And equality for women in education, opportunity, position, pay, society, sport, government etc etc is slowly taking hold.
And it's going to apply to religions who previously had other ideas. That includes some branches of Christianity, Judaism and Islam.
Some people, like you, disagree with this, but it's a huge gigantic colossal movement that cannot be stopped now, and it's going to barge aside anything or person that tries to stop it.
You think it was better 'back in the day', but most disagree and support equality. So your present mindset has to be really spoiling your life and upsetting you.
I tell you what. Honestly, go and get a free course of counselling from your GP (you are in the UK?) and your counsellor can do a very great deal to bring the colour back into your life in present times.
And try not to be upset if your counsellor is female...... they are all top class professionals.
 

Robert.Evans

You will be assimilated; it is His Will.
Lol I love men. I don't know why you assume such crap. I have yet to accuse you of hating women, which I don't think you do. Not really.
And I do my share to ensure the greater good for society. What you do, as I have witnessed, is whinge over having to compete harder for a job and that women no longer grovel at the feet of their husbands.
The last statement says you are a misandrist.
And as for the rst, you misunderstand because you don'[t really want to listen.
 

Robert.Evans

You will be assimilated; it is His Will.
Does anyone get it yet, that it is not about whether a woman can do the job or not, but that she has a greater job to do?
Does anyone see that?
Does anyone yet see that it is not about living in the past, but taking our ability in bringing up children to a higher level.
Does anyone yet see that you are entitled to an opinion, or is everyone too bigoted?
 

turk179

I smell something....
Because you really do seem to be serious I will address you seriously. I do not intend to nor do I have the desire to insult you. I assume we are both adults here.
Does anyone get it yet, that it is not about whether a woman can do the job or not, but that she has a greater job to do?
I can only answer these questions with the experience I have gained from my own culture(U.S.) but believe that all humans should have the right to pursue their dreams and live their lives the way they want to free from oppression, free to believe, chose and love. Society is changing Robert. Women have the right to vote and work and do anything a man can do (better or worse makes no difference.) There is really nothing you can do about it so you might want to buckle up because it is going to be a bumpy ride for you. You can climb the rooftops and yell at the women to go back home and make babies and take care of them but judging by the reactions from this thread, not very many people are going to do as you say.
Does anyone see that?
I would guess not very many.
Does anyone yet see that it is not about living in the past, but taking our ability in bringing up children to a higher level.
Children seem to be doing just fine.
Does anyone yet see that you are entitled to an opinion, or is everyone too bigoted?
Yes and you have been getting lots of opinions but do you not see your own bigotry in this situation?
 

Debater Slayer

Vipassana
Staff member
Premium Member
haha.... so the gang-mentatlity begins to form does it. First know your enemy, attack him, and then you find your friends. We all have to have an enemy do we? That is how we off load our own problems onto others and bond with those around us... wonderful

What a load of incoherent rubbish. Try to think before you post next time.

Given your posts throughout this thread, though, I'm not holding my breath.
 

Draka

Wonder Woman
You sound a little intimidated my men.

And it is irrelevant who can or cannot do something in the work place. I am arguing for what is best for the greater society, and I have given evidence for it. You have given none.
No, not intimidated by men at all. As I'm equal to them why should I be intimidated by them? Unless, of course, you want to argue that women should be intimidated by the "stronger sex"?

You are not arguing about "what is best for the greater society", you are simply arguing from the standpoint your religion has given you. Your beliefs, your preferences. It has nothing to do with reality, with real society, and everything to do with how Robert.Evans personally feels.
I don't like people who play games! It amounts to bullying.
I have given evidence to back up my words which you have ignored.

You are beginning to troll as well are you.
She asks a question and she is "playing games"? Rather than accuse her of "playing games" why don't you actually just answer her question? A question you have refused to answer for her for a while now.

So what? The argument is not whether a woman can do it (which appears to be your insecurity) but what is best for us as brothers and sisters on the same piece of land. It takes a certain amount of sacrifice to think of that, not selfishness.
Oh, and is the sacrifice a female doctor makes to become a doctor not worth the same as the sacrifice a man makes to become one? Is her sacrifice not a good one? The lives she may save? The contributions to the field of medicine not as much as a man's? If she develops the cure for a deadly disease it should be looked down upon her for doing such because what she really should have been doing is raising babies at home rather than saving thousands or even millions of lives with her cure? We should sacrifice lives because you would rather females stay home and raise children they may or may not have even though those children may already be well looked after by their fathers or other relation while these females dare to hold jobs?

Beginning to sound like a bully.
As I have said, it is not what the woman can do now, with all the modern training and infrastucture largely put in by men over countless generations and much spilt blood, it is about the greater good. It is about bringing up children, certainly of the lower classes, with great social skills, not leaving them to it because you have not got time. And for your information, we men were doing okay before you started taking these jobs. We would do okay if you left. I doubt it would work the other way.
So to you, all women must be responsible for continual child care, regardless of if they even have any, regardless of if their children are or can be looked after by anyone else, regardless of if their children are teens and can care for themselves for some hours after school while their mother works, regardless of if her children are grown and have left the nest so to speak? A woman should not work outside the home even if she is divorced, if she is widowed, if she is single?

Oh, and obviously men were not "doing okay" without women working, else women wouldn't have been in certain fields all along nor have moved into other fields. Women have been nurses, assistants in some fields for centuries. Sometimes they needed to step up and work in men's stead when the men weren't around (as who can be there all the time). Women were called to work even more during times of war. Men would leave to defend their land, their countries, their homes, and women would step up to work in their stead as well. Who do you think were tending the fields? Chopping the wood? Selling the wares while men, throughout centuries, went to defend their homes? Who worked in factories while men were away? Who stepped up when industrial boons were made and more workers were needed? Children didn't suffer, haven't suffered, all this time while women worked. And men were not "doing okay" without women. Women have always been relied upon to be able to work.

You sound very insecure and angry. Is that why you feel you have to have moeny and power? Do men bother you that much; the male presence?
This is just tripe. I think you know that.

Does anyone get it yet, that it is not about whether a woman can do the job or not, but that she has a greater job to do?
Do you not get it, after it has been explained to you time and time again, that this "greater job" is something that is being done by both parents? Men are just as responsible for their children and how they are raised as women. Or do you just want to ignore the role men play in their families?
Does anyone see that?
Does anyone yet see that it is not about living in the past, but taking our ability in bringing up children to a higher level.
Do you not see that this is men's responsibility as well? Not just women?
Does anyone yet see that you are entitled to an opinion, or is everyone too bigoted?
Why is it that everyone else here isn't expressing an opinion, but being a "bully" to you? You do not see that perhaps you are the one in the bullying position? The one shaking their finger, admonishing all women for daring to have their own dreams, for being so bold as to contribute to their household, for trying to survive and not let their children starve or go without? You, the judgmental one, the scorning one, the one who thinks they know better for half the world's population?
 

Robert.Evans

You will be assimilated; it is His Will.
Because you really do seem to be serious I will
address you seriously.
It would be nice if someone did.
I do not intend to nor do I have the desire to insult you.
Thankyou, I will try and extent the same courtesy... though I am not promising ;)
I assume we are both adults here.
I can only answer these questions with the experience I have gained from my own culture(U.S.)

but believe that all humans should have the right to pursue their dreams and live their lives the

way they want to free from oppression, free to believe, chose and love.
But with laws governing us, right? Are you saying complete anarchy? I guess not. So laws and rules. So I ask, whose laws? Obviously not mine.
Society is changing

Robert.
I had noticed ;) that does not make it right.
Women have the right to vote and work and do anything a man can do (better or worse

makes no difference.) There is really nothing you can do about it so you might want to buckle up

because it is going to be a bumpy ride for you. You can climb the rooftops and yell at the women

to go back home and make babies and take care of them but judging by the reactions from this

thread, not very many people are going to do as you say.
I would guess not very many.
Children seem to be doing just fine.
Just because something is happening which seems irreversible and yet wrong, does not mean I should not point that out. We could have said the same in the UK when women wanted the vote, could we not.
Yes and you have been getting lots of opinions but do you not see your own bigotry in this

situation?
Bigotry is to have an opinion that you stick to... stick to becasue you think it is right. By the way, I am not saying women go home and make babies. I am saying women WORK from home, including bringing up the children to a far higher level of social skills than they have now, so we don't have deliquents running round. I have given evidence for the crime statistics being worse under single parent families, and I have given some evidence of feminism being the root course of it.... pretty much acknowledged before at any rate by feminists themselves, as they went out soley to destroy the family. Why? Because that was the power of the man. Society does not benefit. With smaller learning facilities, we would not have the bullying that we see in large schools with mixed gender, which even leads sometimes to rape, rape of a teacher for one. None of that would happen if they did not have such large impersonal schools. Long story. Not going into it all unless your interested.
 

Draka

Wonder Woman
Woah woah woah, now girls and boys should be taught in separate schools? They can't even be educated together? Next, am I to assume, there would be the proposal that their educations should differ? Certain things taught to boys, certain things taught to girls?
 

Robert.Evans

You will be assimilated; it is His Will.
Woah woah woah, now girls and boys should be taught in separate schools? They can't even be educated together? Next, am I to assume, there would be the proposal that their educations should differ? Certain things taught to boys, certain things taught to girls?
That's not quite what I meant, but now that you mention it... have you never known boys and girls schools? Where are you from? That is how it used to be, even in my time. Now we get the usual harassing with the genders mixed. Do you not care about these children or something? Or are you still trolling.
 

MysticSang'ha

Big Squishy Hugger
Premium Member
I don't like people who play games! It amounts to bullying.
I have given evidence to back up my words which you have ignored.

Nah, forget it. I've tried these conversations with you many times in the past. There is the report function. If you feel there is a rule violation in my posts, it's prudent for members to report them.

You are beginning to troll as well are you.

Again, report if rule violations are disruptive to the conversation.

But no, there is no need for me to continue this attempt at dialogue with you. Have a good one.
 
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