Do you believe in life after Death?

[Hermit Philosopher]

Facts ?

Not fact. Faith

 

[Trailblazer]

After death?

Consciousness "goes" when we are unconscious, anesthesia, coma, etc. So, the nature of consciousness must be different definition different in order to refer to it after the brain and body dies.

Baha'is believe that the soul is responsible for consciousness, so after the brain and body die, we retain full consciousness because the soul lives on.

 

[cataway]

Baha'is believe that the soul is responsible for consciousness, so after the brain and body die, we retain full consciousness because the soul lives on.

18 I also said in my heart about the sons of men that the true God will test them and show them that they are like animals, 19 for there is an outcome for humans and an outcome for animals; they all have the same outcome. As the one dies, so the other dies; and they all have but one spirit. So man has no superiority over animals, for everything is futile. 20 All are going to the same place. They all come from the dust, and they all are returning to the dust

 

[osgart]

Funny thing, when I'm inside of a building I feel no living energy. When I am outdoors I feel all kinds of comfort from living energy. Does anyone else have this sense?

Also if being alive is chemical energy then exactly what chem mixture is the alive of you. And how do you know that alive ends forever? So like some molecular configuration is your alive self, and once the configuration is broken you cease. What exactly is the alive of you? Honestly this stuff is assumption. How do you know that the chemical energy configuration isn't tapping into a living realm? Perhaps the chemical energy is a carrier wave of your living energy. So when the chem breaks down it loses the signal of your living energy.

What exactly is doing the feeling from the neuron receptors? Where in the brain are you contained?

 

[Trailblazer]

18 I also said in my heart about the sons of men that the true God will test them and show them that they are like animals, 19 for there is an outcome for humans and an outcome for animals; they all have the same outcome. As the one dies, so the other dies; and they all have but one spirit. So man has no superiority over animals, for everything is futile. 20 All are going to the same place. They all come from the dust, and they all are returning to the dust

Can you please cite the source of those verses?

 

[McBell]

Can you please cite the source of those verses?

I think it is Ecclesiastes 3:18-20
Though I have no idea what version it is.

Edit:
I suspect it is the New World Translation.
Though I can not say for sure.

Edit 2:
It is:

https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/ecclesiastes/3/​

 

[The Anointed]

18 I also said in my heart about the sons of men that the true God will test them and show them that they are like animals, 19 for there is an outcome for humans and an outcome for animals; they all have the same outcome. As the one dies, so the other dies; and they all have but one spirit. So man has no superiority over animals, for everything is futile. 20 All are going to the same place. They all come from the dust, and they all are returning to the dust

You.ve been reading Solomon's SATIRICAL work, aimed at those who believed in neither Life after the first death, which is that of the body, or in the resurrection of the dead, haven't you? You quote Ecclesiastes 3: 18.

From the book of Sirach, which is to be found in the Apocrypha of the Old Testament, coupled together with the book of Job, a number of the Psalms, Parables, Ecclesiastes, and the Wisdom of Solomon, all belong to the Hogmah or Wisdom Literature of the Hebrews, ‘Mashal’ means Similitude, parable, or proverb.----- In the book of Sirach, R, H, Charles translation chapter 47 verse 17, it is written concerning Solomon, “By thy songs, parables, dark speeches, and satires, thou didst cause astonishment to the peoples etc.”

From the Good News Bible Catholic Study edition; Eat, drink and be merry, for tomorrow we die. I envy those who are dead and gone; they are better off than those who are still alive. But better off than either, are those who have never been born etc.

A man may have a hundred children and live a long time, but no matter how long he lives, if he does not get his share of happiness and does not receive a descent burial, then I say that a baby born dead is better off.

Man and animal receive the same ultimate reward, total oblivion, from the dust they came and to the dust they shall return. A wise man is no better off than a fool, the reward for doing good is the same as that for doing evil, so don’t be too good or too wise, Why kill yourself?

We are all going to our final resting place, and although life is useless, the conclusion of the matter is, if you live a religious life you may at least experience some peace in the short span of consciousness that has been allocated to you in this useless life. So go ahead and eat, drink and be merry, drink your wine and be cheerful. It’s all right with God. Enjoy your life with the woman you love, as long as you live the useless life that God has given you in this world. Enjoy every useless day of it, because that is all that you’ll get for all your troubles.

Never again will you take part in anything that happens in the world, because there will be no action, no thought, no knowledge, no wisdom in the world of the dead to where the righteous, the wicked, the wise and the fools, animal and man, are all going. For the living know that they are going to die, but the dead know nothing.

Solomon’s songs are found in his book, ‘SONG OF SONGS,’ his parables are found in his book of PROVERBS, his dark speeches are in the ‘WISDOM OF SOLOMON’ and who can read the negative and even depressing words from the book of ‘Ecclesiastes without realizing that here is the 'SATIRICAL' work of Solomon, aimed at those people of the godless religion, who believed in neither life after death, or the resurrection from the dead.

If you believe that the book of Ecclesiastes is not Solomon's Satirical work, but is to be taken to be factual, then you can kiss goodbye to any chance of a resurrection in this world, "Because Solomon said to those who believe that the death of the physical is the end of their life; "Never again will you take part in anything that happens in the world."

 

[Trailblazer]

I think it is Ecclesiastes 3:18-20
Though I have no idea what version it is.

Edit:
I suspect it is the New World Translation.
Though I can not say for sure.

Edit 2:
It is:

https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/ecclesiastes/3/​

Thanks, I will take a look.

 

[Trailblazer]

I think it is Ecclesiastes 3:18-20
Though I have no idea what version it is.

Edit:
I suspect it is the New World Translation.
Though I can not say for sure.

Edit 2:
It is:

https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/ecclesiastes/3/​

Ecclesiastes 3:18-20
18 I also said in my heart about the sons of men that the true God will test them and show them that they are like animals, * for humans and an outcome for animals; they all have the same outcome.m As the one dies, so the other dies; and they all have but one spirit.n So man has no superiority over animals, for everything is futile. o They all come from the dust,p and they all are returning to the dust.q 21 Who really knows whether the spirit of humans ascends upward, and whether the spirit of animals descends down to the earth?

As I interpret this to be saying that animals have a spirit just like humans have a spirit and when the body dies both the animal body and the human body return to dust. Nobody really knows if the human spirit ascends upwards or whether the spirit of animals descends down to the earth.

Those verses do not refute what I said:
Baha'is believe that the soul is responsible for consciousness, so after the brain and body die, we retain full consciousness because the soul lives on.

 

[The Anointed]

Thanks, I will take a look.

Try reading from the GNB Catholic Study Edition as quoted in post #167

 

[Trailblazer]

Strange, but we were not told to expect anyone else after Jesus......not Muhammad, not the Bab and not Baha'u'llah...they are your prophets, not mine....and nothing whatever to do with Jesus.

Jesus told us to expect the Comforter and the Spirit of truth, sorry you missed that.

John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

John 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

John 16:12-14 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

You see God designed humans to live on earth...and he designed the earth for humans to take care of....it was their assignment.

God sure did design the earth for humans to live on, until they die and go to the spiritual world.

There is nothing in the Bible that says that dead humans would rise from their graves and live forever on earth.

Here is a post I posted to a Christian on another forum not long ago”

The Bible does not SAY any that “God does not create new bodies for us from scratch, but rather resurrects the body that dies.” That is what you believe having misinterpreted what the Bible SAYS.

There is no such thing as a Resurrection Body. It is NOT in the Bible anywhere. This is a Christian belief that came about because the Bible was misinterpreted. ALL these misconceptions about a Resurrection Body came about because Christians believe that Jesus rose from the dead.

There is no such thing as a physical body that is transformed into an immortal body. It is NOT in the Bible anywhere.

You say you believe in the Bible but you cannot even debate with a Baha’i who you say does not know the Bible, but it is clear and plain what the Bible SAYS.

There are physical bodies and spiritual bodies, as Paul said. The physical body is the source of all corruption as the Bible says, it is the source of dishonor, it is weak, and that is because the physical body is subject to sin.

The spiritual body is incorruptible because spirit cannot ever die. The soul (spirit) is glorified and has power because it was created by God. I do not have to read anything that Baha’u’llah wrote in order to KNOW this; I only have to read the Bible, because this is all in the Bible.

Jesus said that spirit and flesh are not equivalent. The spirit quickens, the flesh profits nothing. The flesh profits nothing because it is subject to sin and it is mortal, not everlasting.

John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

1 John 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

Baha’is believe that souls go to heaven and take on a spiritual body, which is the same thing as what Paul says in 1st Cor:

we are raised in a spiritual body and only spiritual bodies can enter heaven.

(1st Corinthians 15:35) "But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?"

36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:

42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:

44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

They were to "fill the earth and subdue it". There is no mention of any other place for humans to live...

Humans are not bodies with a soul (spirit), they are souls (spirits) who inhabit bodies for a short period of time while they are living on earth.

As the following passage says: “man is not a man because of his body but because of his spirit, for it is the spirit that thinks in man, and thought with affection is what constitutes man.” He then explains what happens to humans after the physical body dies.

421. When the body is no longer able to perform the bodily functions in the natural world that correspond to the spirit’s thoughts and affections, which the spirit has from the spiritual world, man is said to die. This takes place when the respiration of the lungs and the beatings of the heart cease. But the man does not die; he is merely separated from the bodily part that was of use to him in the world, while the man himself continues to live. It is said that the man himself continues to live since man is not a man because of his body but because of his spirit, for it is the spirit that thinks in man, and thought with affection is what constitutes man. Evidently, then, the death of man is merely his passing from one world into another. And this is why in the Word in its internal sense “death” signifies resurrection and continuation of life. Heaven and Hell, p. 351

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

 

[cataway]

Jesus told us to expect the Comforter and the Spirit of truth, sorry you missed that.

John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

John 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

John 16:12-14 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

God sure did design the earth for humans to live on, until they die and go to the spiritual world.

There is nothing in the Bible that says that dead humans would rise from their graves and live forever on earth.

Here is a post I posted to a Christian on another forum not long ago”

The Bible does not SAY any that “God does not create new bodies for us from scratch, but rather resurrects the body that dies.” That is what you believe having misinterpreted what the Bible SAYS.

There is no such thing as a Resurrection Body. It is NOT in the Bible anywhere. This is a Christian belief that came about because the Bible was misinterpreted. ALL these misconceptions about a Resurrection Body came about because Christians believe that Jesus rose from the dead.

There is no such thing as a physical body that is transformed into an immortal body. It is NOT in the Bible anywhere.

You say you believe in the Bible but you cannot even debate with a Baha’i who you say does not know the Bible, but it is clear and plain what the Bible SAYS.

There are physical bodies and spiritual bodies, as Paul said. The physical body is the source of all corruption as the Bible says, it is the source of dishonor, it is weak, and that is because the physical body is subject to sin.

The spiritual body is incorruptible because spirit cannot ever die. The soul (spirit) is glorified and has power because it was created by God. I do not have to read anything that Baha’u’llah wrote in order to KNOW this; I only have to read the Bible, because this is all in the Bible.

Jesus said that spirit and flesh are not equivalent. The spirit quickens, the flesh profits nothing. The flesh profits nothing because it is subject to sin and it is mortal, not everlasting.

John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

1 John 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

Baha’is believe that souls go to heaven and take on a spiritual body, which is the same thing as what Paul says in 1st Cor:

we are raised in a spiritual body and only spiritual bodies can enter heaven.

(1st Corinthians 15:35) "But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?"

36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:

42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:

44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

Humans are not bodies with a soul (spirit), they are souls (spirits) who inhabit bodies for a short period of time while they are living on earth.

As the following passage says: “man is not a man because of his body but because of his spirit, for it is the spirit that thinks in man, and thought with affection is what constitutes man.” He then explains what happens to humans after the physical body dies.

421. When the body is no longer able to perform the bodily functions in the natural world that correspond to the spirit’s thoughts and affections, which the spirit has from the spiritual world, man is said to die. This takes place when the respiration of the lungs and the beatings of the heart cease. But the man does not die; he is merely separated from the bodily part that was of use to him in the world, while the man himself continues to live. It is said that the man himself continues to live since man is not a man because of his body but because of his spirit, for it is the spirit that thinks in man, and thought with affection is what constitutes man. Evidently, then, the death of man is merely his passing from one world into another. And this is why in the Word in its internal sense “death” signifies resurrection and continuation of life. Heaven and Hell, p. 351

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

your words ''Of course nothing that the Baha'is believe comes from the Bible, it comes from the Writings of Baha'u'llah''.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Baha'is believe that the soul is responsible for consciousness, so after the brain and body die, we retain full consciousness because the soul lives on.

What is a soul apart from consciousness?

 

[Trailblazer]

your words ''Of course nothing that the Baha'is believe comes from the Bible, it comes from the Writings of Baha'u'llah''.

But that does not mean Baha'is do not believe that what is in the Bible is true.
Baha'is believe that all valid scriptures are true, including the Bible.

 

[Trailblazer]

What is a soul apart from consciousness?

A soul is not apart from consciousness... The soul is responsible for consciousness.... Maybe this will help.......

We only need physical bodies in this physical world because the soul works through the body while we are alive in a body, but it is the soul that directs human faculties, including consciousness. As outer circumstances are communicated to the soul by the eyes, ears, and brain, the soul communicates its desires through the brain to the physical body, which thereby expresses itself and leads to experiences and distractions and feelings and all kinds of things.

The soul is the sum total of the personality so it is the person himself; the physical body is pure matter with no real identity. The person, after he dies and leaves his physical body behind remains the same person, and he goes to the spiritual world where he continues the life he conducted in the physical world. The soul takes on some kind of a spiritual form made up of elements that exist in the spiritual world. Nobody can understand what that will be like before they die because the only reference point we have is the physical world and the physical body.

 

[cataway]

A soul is not apart from consciousness... The soul is responsible for consciousness.... Maybe this will help.......

We only need physical bodies in this physical world because the soul works through the body while we are alive in a body, but it is the soul that directs human faculties, including consciousness. As outer circumstances are communicated to the soul by the eyes, ears, and brain, the soul communicates its desires through the brain to the physical body, which thereby expresses itself and leads to experiences and distractions and feelings and all kinds of things.

The soul is the sum total of the personality so it is the person himself; the physical body is pure matter with no real identity. The person, after he dies and leaves his physical body behind remains the same person, and he goes to the spiritual world where he continues the life he conducted in the physical world. The soul takes on some kind of a spiritual form made up of elements that exist in the spiritual world. Nobody can understand what that will be like before they die because the only reference point we have is the physical world and the physical body.

The original-language terms (Heb., neʹphesh [נֶפֶשׁ]; Gr., psy·kheʹ [ψυχή]) as used in the Scriptures show “soul” to be a person, or animal. a cat is a soul a dog is a soul. every animal that draws breath is a soul.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

We are not even inside the body in the first place, but as human beings our consciousness are "locked" within this body. That in my understanding is why it feels like we are in the body. Our main entity is in a different dimensions or different realm

Uhu... ok. I guess.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

It is the soul working through the brain.

What is a soul and how can you demonstrate that it exists absent a brain, as well as "use" brains to manifest emotions?

 

[Trailblazer]

The original-language terms (Heb., neʹphesh [נֶפֶשׁ]; Gr., psy·kheʹ [ψυχή]) as used in the Scriptures show “soul” to be a person, or animal. a cat is a soul a dog is a soul. every animal that draws breath is a soul.

Can you quote those scriptures?

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

I believe that the soul can exist without the physical body after we die, but the body cannot exist without the soul, since the soul animates the physical body and allows it to function.

I believe that after we die the soul leaves the body and takes on a new form and we continue to function just as we did in this world. The only difference is that there is nothing material in the spiritual world and no time as we know it, because time is measured by the sun, so when there is no more sun, that kind of time no longer exists.

“The world beyond is as different from this world as this world is different from that of the child while still in the womb of its mother. When the soul attaineth the Presence of God, it will assume the form that best befitteth its immortality and is worthy of its celestial habitation.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 157

“The answer to the third question is this, that in the other world the human reality doth not assume a physical form, rather doth it take on a heavenly form, made up of elements of that heavenly realm.” Selections From the Writings of ‘Abdu’l-Bahá, p. 194

Since it is the soul that is responsible for our thinking, after we die we will continue to think just as we do now only with a heightened consciousness. Our consciousness will be heightened because the physical body is an impediment that prevents full consciousness.

First of all, it's off course absolute nonsense that time is measured by the sun or in any way dependend on the existance of this random star, which is just one among a couple bilion bazigillion trillions of stars in the universe.

Secondly, I see a lot of "I believe"s. Is there anything about this that is more then just mere beliefs?