War is an obscenity. But we just don't seem to accept that.
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Do You Believe In War?
- Thread starter horizon_mj1
- Start date
horizon_mj1
Well-Known Member
Taking a human life for defense of life to me is an unfortunate reminder of why I find humanity embarrassing. We should have by now evolved enough to see there are enough threats in Nature with us not needing to be one ourselves. Our minds have evolved technologies to find find planets in other solar systems, yet have not found a way to use our minds to resolve issues without demise of one party or the other. This I see also as being included how we are a continual demise to our very plant there for IMO being a very high threat to ourselves. It is but a lame excuse to resort to fist just because you find no other way to prove your point.
Caladan
Agnostic Pantheist
If you really wish to enjoy the boom of future technology, including prospects of space travel you also need to be ready because it can and will fall into the wrong hands. In which case future soldiers might have to go to great lengths to hunt down terrorists or engage rogue states who acquire game changing technologies. In addition, to claim we should be more evolved than many other creatures who compete both with other members of their own group and with other species for either alpha position or territory (and plenty of other reasons) is patronizing. We are not yet the generation who will render [human] nature obsolete. We have much to work out before having the privilege of pretending to live in a utopia instead of addressing our challenges constructively and realistically.
Not as lame as the ones made by those who drop the responsibility to prevent the demise of their societies or even global society at large on others who defend them (or attack others) and on those getting dirty doing ungrateful routines. Things other people cannot stomach doing, or simply have no desire to get dirty and make such an effort. Or perhaps those who are truly numb in the face of grave injustices and would stand idle as others around them are attacked.
AmbiguousGuy
Well-Known Member
For whatever it might be worth, I hardly believe in humanity or any other species boundaries. Each person is a unique creature. I think there will always be aggressive individuals who break the cultural rules and require either imprisonment or killing.
It might even be a good thing, such people, if we value diversity in the gene pool. Right now, we are culling away the super-aggressive males.
Alceste
Vagabond
What if you were out of bullets? What if the rapist was using your daughter as human shield? What if the rapist turned out to be your own brother, or your best friend, or your father, etc? (Far more likely than a stranger, statistically speaking) What if God Himself appeared and told you you'd burn in hell if you pull the trigger?
See? Posing leading hypotheticals to try to force your opponent to make a particular statement is stupid.
Alceste
Vagabond
I accept it. War is a racket run by and for profiteers and power-mongers, and we're all suckers for believing otherwise.
YmirGF
Bodhisattva in Recovery
Oh good grief, Alceste. That is barely intelligible codswallop.
Alceste
Vagabond
It's pretty succinct, I confess. See if this is any more intelligible - same concept, more words. You might actually enjoy it.
War Is A Racket, by Major General Smedley Butler, 1935
AmbiguousGuy
Well-Known Member
Then I wouldn't be able to shoot him and my daughter would probably be raped.
I'm a crack shot. I could probably hit him without harming my daughter. If not, my daughter would probably be raped.
Dead from gunshot.
I'd assume I was hallucinating from the stress and go ahead and shoot the attacker.
Huh? I didn't have the least problem answering your hypotheticals. (Of course they were only my best guesses. Who knows what would happen in real life.)
What do you have against being questioned about your probable moral decisions and behaviors?
War is meaningful, except that the meaning is rather shortsighted and quite ridiculous. Who wants to transcend? There is much greater meaning to life than what most traditional paradigms dictate. Wars are like debating, it's not about who possesses the actual truth, but rather who has the best (argument) to convince others.
horizon_mj1
Well-Known Member
I find it quite the unstable mind who finds war constructive, but realistic being the unfortunate Truth. Although we claim to understand what Pride is we still find a need to forgo the value of a Human Life to fulfill vapid hungers as such. I agree that Future technologies will give us not only a wider array of Security issues, but as long as ignorance and excuses are see as proper definitions of our actions, we may be biting off more than we can choose.
Courage is a rare quality which allows a person to face realities and responsibilities. My point of this post is not to condemn or blame others, or even ask someone to get dirty doing something for me I myself would not do. As far as grave injustices are concerned, I personally have a few that would I am quite sure surprise you beyond what you think imaginable
sandandfoam
Veteran Member
Tumah
Veteran Member
Actually, I don't believe there ever has been a war and I don't believe there is any ontological evidence that empirically points to the existence of war.
Come on, really? War is an inevitable aspect of society. Sure, today we sit all cozy in our homes in peaceful societies. We pretend that we are hyper-moral, uber-humanists. Do you think that if you weren't being persecuted you wouldn't fight back, for yourself, for your family?
As long as there will be diversity of opinion there will be war. No amount of sitting around the campfire next to your flower-painted van smoking pot and extolling the virtues of peace is going to change that. Diversity of opinion is what separates us from animals. That is not something we can "evolve past", until "Humanity" refers to one lone being. We are billions of people with diversity inscribed in their genes. That diversity will inevitably lead to war again and again. The only solution is to take away the right to think for yourself, to hold your own ideals. Or kill everyone who disagrees with you.
No. War is not the problem, it is an unfortunate yet intrinsic extension of being human. War is the right to choose.
Come on, really? War is an inevitable aspect of society. Sure, today we sit all cozy in our homes in peaceful societies. We pretend that we are hyper-moral, uber-humanists. Do you think that if you weren't being persecuted you wouldn't fight back, for yourself, for your family?
As long as there will be diversity of opinion there will be war. No amount of sitting around the campfire next to your flower-painted van smoking pot and extolling the virtues of peace is going to change that. Diversity of opinion is what separates us from animals. That is not something we can "evolve past", until "Humanity" refers to one lone being. We are billions of people with diversity inscribed in their genes. That diversity will inevitably lead to war again and again. The only solution is to take away the right to think for yourself, to hold your own ideals. Or kill everyone who disagrees with you.
No. War is not the problem, it is an unfortunate yet intrinsic extension of being human. War is the right to choose.
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sandandfoam
Veteran Member
Tumah
Veteran Member
If I direct my weapons at you until you agree with me, will you war with me, or will you let me take over you and your household and impose my views?
sandandfoam
Veteran Member
Like I said, look at Gandhi - the most effective answer to those who would use violence is nonviolent resistance.
Tumah
Veteran Member
That is wishful thinking. My jets have already scrambled, my soldiers are at your border. You want to fast in protest? Human barrier? Enjoy the feeling as my bullets plow through your body. Nonviolence can only work against a society already committed to non(or minimizing)-violence.
sandandfoam
Veteran Member
The facts are against you - look at the conduct of the Khudai Khidmatgar composed of Muslim, Pashtun tribesmen in Afghanistan in their successful struggle against the British Empire.
If the alternative is to encourage you to keep doing that, then sure, I just might.
The fact is that war mobilization just does not lead to anything worth pursuing, nor does it provide the means to limit its own growth. It just keeps scaring others and being scared back in a destructive cycle.
Alceste
Vagabond
That isn't war. If directly attacked, I will defend myself against the individual doing the attacking. What I won't do is slavishly throw my life away (or anyone else's) - or sacrifice own my free will and moral conscience to follow orders - for some BS "cause", because war is a racket and I'm not a sucker.