Do you need threats of hell

[Hermit Philosopher]

Do you need threats of hell and rewards/promises of heaven to be a good person?

Or are threats and rewards/promises what humans have always used to get others to see things their way.

No, but I personally needed to experience the internal consequences of being a “bad” person, to realise that I wanted to be a “good” one instead.

Humbly,
Hermit

 

[1213]

Do you need threats of hell and rewards/promises of heaven to be a good person?

Or are threats and rewards/promises what humans have always used to get others to see things their way.

I don't believe hell is a threat or heaven a reward to make people do right things, because in Bible eternal life is promised for righteous, which is more than just some right action. Faking to be righteous by doing righteous actions, just to earn a reward doesn't really work.

And these shall go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into everlasting life.
Matt. 25:46
For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is everlasting life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 6:23

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

I have mental health issues. Hell doesn’t scare people who live in it.

 

[Nakosis]

Do you need threats of hell and rewards/promises of heaven to be a good person?

Or are threats and rewards/promises what humans have always used to get others to see things their way.

What about the threat of prison or fines?
What about the threat of the government taking from you everything you own.

We can see what happens in cities where limited law enforcement exists. Whatever causes enough humans to run amok/afoul of other people's freedoms which requires enforcement. Fear of hell or God if you can get folks to believe in that can save on enforcement costs.

 

[PureX]

Do you need threats of hell and rewards/promises of heaven to be a good person?

No, but that's an internal issue.

Or are threats and rewards/promises what humans have always used to get others to see things their way.

Yes, and that's an external issue.

 

[mangalavara]

Do you need threats of hell and rewards/promises of heaven to be a good person?

As long as there are no promises of a paradise, I will gladly sacrifice to stone idols, kill my newborn daughters, cheat people out of their money, steal from other tents, and sleep with other men’s wives. Thankfully, there are promises of paradise, so I am refraining from doing those deeds merely because I want to live in a luscious garden where I will have female companions and an unending supply of the best gourmet food. This makes me a good person who everybody can trust.

I’m kidding, of course. I love what is right, and I do what is right as devotion to God. Paradises don’t matter to me.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

Do you need threats of hell and rewards/promises of heaven to be a good person?

No, I don't, and in my opinion, a person is far better off not allowing the fearmongering threat of hell or the hollow promise of heaven to rule their life and dictate their behavior. I consider the belief in sinning against God (who may or may not even exist) to be self-defeating and detrimental to a person's mental health. I've witnessed it happen to others, and it also happened to me. I don't want to derail your thread with a lengthy explanation, so I'll just post a link to a previous post in which I explained why my belief in God was emotionally harmful to me (read it here). As I mentioned in this other post, I think that Penn Jillette was really spot on when he said, "The question I get asked by religious people all the time is, without God, what’s to stop me from raping all I want?" And my answer is: I rape all I want. And the amount I want is zero. And I do murder all I want, and the amount I want is zero. The fact that these people think that if they didn’t have this person watching over them, they would go on killing and raping rampages is the most self-damning thing I can imagine."

Or are threats and rewards/promises what humans have always used to get others to see things their way.

I think that the threat of hell (coupled with rewards in heaven) is a classic illustration of "the carrot and the stick." I think that it's a fearmongering strategy that was designed to keep people in church and in line. I think it was used to control the masses and keep money coming into the church offering plate.

 

[Erebus]

Do you need threats of hell and rewards/promises of heaven to be a good person?

Or are threats and rewards/promises what humans have always used to get others to see things their way.

Speaking for myself, I usually feel good after I help somebody and bad after I hurt somebody. That's incentive enough for me to try to help people more than I hurt them. Whether that's enough to qualify as a good person is a matter of opinion of course.

Reward/punishment is only one of many techniques people use to get others to see things their own way. I'm not sure it's the most effective method either. Appealing to a sense of group identity probably gets the job done more easily.

 

[DNB]

For what it's worth, I agree. Hellfire preachers are often giving their sermons out of fear and compassion for their fellow human beings. They don't want anyone to go to Hell, so they spend most of their free time warning people about it.

If I believed in Hell, I might do something similar. It could hypothetically justify a wide range of atrocities in an effort to save as many souls as possible from Hell, because suffering on earth is temporary but Hell is eternal. There is a kind of logic to that line of thought.

I'm probably not going to thank the majority of people who warn me about Hell, though, because I've already investigated the possibility. I came to the conclusion that Hell does not exist and that the people who believe in it are wrong. At this point, people who warn me about Hell are merely repeating claims that I believe have already been debunked.

For such warnings to have enough weight for me to be grateful that someone gave them to me, they would need to accompany sufficient evidence for me to be convinced of them. This has yet to happen, so I withhold my thanks.

That's fine that you don't believe in hell, for the sake of this argument, as you have expressed that you can appreciate the intent behind the warning, despite the fact that there may be a misconception there, but not a misguided approach.

 

[sun rise]

Do you need threats of hell and rewards/promises of heaven to be a good person?

Or are threats and rewards/promises what humans have always used to get others to see things their way.

If I adore You out of fear of Hell, burn me in Hell!
If I adore you out of desire for Paradise,
Lock me out of Paradise.
But if I adore you for Yourself alone,
Do not deny to me Your eternal beauty.”
​

― Rabia al Basri

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

What about the threat of prison or fines?
What about the threat of the government taking from you everything you own.

We can see what happens in cities where limited law enforcement exists. Whatever causes enough humans to run amok/afoul of other people's freedoms which requires enforcement. Fear of hell or God if you can get folks to believe in that can save on enforcement costs.

But jail exists.

 

[Nakosis]

But jail exists.

Hell exists, for some folks. Even if only in their mind.

If you can you the fear of God to save on the cost of building more jails...
Use the money saved to feed the homeless.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

What about the threat of prison or fines?
What about the threat of the government taking from you everything you own.

We can see what happens in cities where limited law enforcement exists. Whatever causes enough humans to run amok/afoul of other people's freedoms which requires enforcement. Fear of hell or God if you can get folks to believe in that can save on enforcement costs.

People usually don't resort to crime unless there is a need. They don't like stealing or hurting people or destroying other people's things. Murder is a rarity for our species even if we are more dangerous than most ither animals.
If people's needs are met crime would be reduced largely and mostly down to those of a pathalogical psychology.

 

[The Hammer]

Do you need threats of hell and rewards/promises of heaven to be a good person?

Or are threats and rewards/promises what humans have always used to get others to see things their way.

Nope.

Not necessary for me.

 

[Quintessence]

Do you need threats of hell and rewards/promises of heaven to be a good person?

Considering the following:

• The cultures with exclusivists and extremists who would ask this type of question would already not consider me to be a good person because I am an infidel to them.
• Given I have no interest in converting to their cultural exclusivism and extremism, the only possible way for them make me a good person in their view would be to threaten me or bribe me (aka, forced cultural conformity and conversion).

So... I guess that makes it a yes?

Meanwhile, "hell" and "heaven" aren't really a thing in my religion, so... eh?

 

[We Never Know]

Well, obviously.


Think Santa Claus and the threat of coal and the reward of toys for behavior.

Yep. That's another good example of using threats and rewards to influence behavior.

 

[Nakosis]

People usually don't resort to crime unless there is a need. They don't like stealing or hurting people or destroying other people's things. Murder is a rarity for our species even if we are more dangerous than most ither animals.
If people's needs are met crime would be reduced largely and mostly down to those of a pathalogical psychology.

Who gets to decide if peoples needs are met?
That's a pretty tall order, to meet everyone's need. Nice idea but I suspect a pipe dream to meet everyone's needs.
But ok, lets do that.
Still actually a few like stealing and hurting others. Even if a minority, enough to cause the majority problems.

 

[Father Heathen]

Being made aware of the consequences of sin, should not be perceived as an idle threat, but as a fair and compassionate warning.
If God exists, do you think that it is a small matter to deny His efforts in creation, to disregard the ability to love and be loved that He gave all humans?
Do you believe that forgiveness is unconditional - let me see you do the same with a thief - he'll take you for everything that you have, if you don't punish him.

Showing contempt for your Maker is an egregious offense - try showing your parents the same defiance, and see if it doesn't prove to be consequential.

Only the wicked need to be warned of their behaviour, and there is a lot of them. So that any Biblical stipulations that define the ramifications of transgressing God's will, are, first of all, meant for the defiant and insolent, and two, should be considered as full disclosure and transparency.
In other words, you all should say thank you.

Nope, the whole thing is a manipulative, coercive protection racket.

 

[Father Heathen]

"If people are good only because they fear punishment and hope for reward, then we are a sorry lot indeed." - Albert Einstein

 

[Sand Dancer]

Do you need threats of hell and rewards/promises of heaven to be a good person?

Or are threats and rewards/promises what humans have always used to get others to see things their way.

No. I was actually a better person when I was a generic theist than when I was Christian.