Do You Really Believe that?

[Heyo]

We can't see into peoples heads (yet). So we have no way to argue peoples believes and must therefore assume that what they say about their believes is true. Do we though?

Do we believe someone truly and confidently believes that the 2nd coming is near when they have 401(k) plan?
Do we think that the fire-and-brimstone preacher really believes in hell when he's embezzling money from his own church (or worse)?
Do you really believe there is no free will but you vehemently refuse to do what you have been ordered to do?

I've always taken the position that we should take peoples position as granted when they say they believe X. But what when their actions refute their words?

 

[Twilight Hue]

People throw money at their entertainment.

I used to get all riled up over it, but I concluded that people actually deserve each other and any rose colored world they decide to live in.

I'd say let them knock themselves out.

It's a truly fascinating watch. Particularly when you realize you were one of them at one time and will be educated enough to keep a fair distance away from those kind of people.

 

[bobhikes]

We can't see into peoples heads (yet). So we have no way to argue peoples believes and must therefore assume that what they say about their believes is true. Do we though?

Do we believe someone truly and confidently believes that the 2nd coming is near when they have 401(k) plan?
Do we think that the fire-and-brimstone preacher really believes in hell when he's embezzling money from his own church (or worse)?
Do you really believe there is no free will but you vehemently refuse to do what you have been ordered to do?

I've always taken the position that we should take peoples position as granted when they say they believe X. But what when their actions refute their words?

What I have noticed is that Beliefs and Actions hardly ever coordinate. Beliefs tend to be spoken and drive emotions. Actions are driven by emotions and logic and are not fully supporting the beliefs. A person that can control their emotions usually has better coordination between beliefs and actions.

 

[Stevicus]

We can't see into peoples heads (yet). So we have no way to argue peoples believes and must therefore assume that what they say about their believes is true. Do we though?

Do we believe someone truly and confidently believes that the 2nd coming is near when they have 401(k) plan?
Do we think that the fire-and-brimstone preacher really believes in hell when he's embezzling money from his own church (or worse)?
Do you really believe there is no free will but you vehemently refuse to do what you have been ordered to do?

I've always taken the position that we should take peoples position as granted when they say they believe X. But what when their actions refute their words?

I've often thought along the same lines, that belief or disbelief is proven by one's actions more than one's words. It's a good indicator.

Of course, beliefs themselves aren't always etched in stone. They can sometimes fluctuate and change over time.

Do we believe someone believes in climate change if they drive SUVs and use private airplanes? Can someone claim to believe in liberty if they support the Patriot Act or the War on Drugs?

 

[osgart]

I tend to hold people accountable to their beliefs and convictions they speak with their out front face. But I always get real patient when it comes to their actions. If a person is speaking literal Christianity I will consider them to be self deceived and emotionally driven, and desperate for something; that could be really bad, or just blind to reality. Often enough it is insincere self serving garbage, but sometimes it's sincere fidelity to something very stupid.

I'm always amazed that literal Christianity is taken seriously with an out front face. Overall it's just a waste of my time. I won't stick around for any further involvement. If I have to be involved with it, I'm most miserable.

 

[vijeno]

I've always taken the position that we should take peoples position as granted when they say they believe X. But what when their actions refute their words?

I had an interesting dream once. In that dream, there were satanists, recognizable because they trusted Satan so much, they confidently crossed the street without looking left or right, ignored the traffic light. And it worked for them.

I think it was a comment on my stance that christians profess they trust god, but obviously they rather rely on their own senses in practice. I love how my subconscious mind works sometimes!

Anyway, I think people are complicated. We're not very consistent. None of us. I think it makes sense to keep that in mind.

I don't really think that actions speak louder than words... but that we tend to utter words of confidence, in situations in which our core values are not under threat. Sitting in the armchair at home. In the trenches, we don't talk that much.

When you ask someone what they believe, what you really get is what they WANT to believe - what their values are. Their ideals. What they think they should profess. What they think you want to hear. Not even of malice, just because it's polite, or because they want something from you, or they want to help you.... millions of possible reasons. Some of which are bad, but some are very understandable.

What do I believe in? Well, rationality and empathy. Those are my core values. Do I always live to reflect those values? Hell no. I can be angry and destructive just like the next guy. I try to improve myself, I try to get closer to my ideals, that's all. I think I'm much better now than I was 10 years ago, and that's what I try to look at. But a perfect embodiment of my beliefs, I am not, and never will be.

I think that "cutting people some slack, because I realize I'm not better than you" is a much needed, much underappreciated thing.

 

[McBell]

We can't see into peoples heads (yet). So we have no way to argue peoples believes and must therefore assume that what they say about their believes is true. Do we though?

Do we believe someone truly and confidently believes that the 2nd coming is near when they have 401(k) plan?
Do we think that the fire-and-brimstone preacher really believes in hell when he's embezzling money from his own church (or worse)?
Do you really believe there is no free will but you vehemently refuse to do what you have been ordered to do?

I've always taken the position that we should take peoples position as granted when they say they believe X. But what when their actions refute their words?

Seems to that a lightning rod a top a church shows lack of faith.

 

[Stevicus]

I think that "cutting people some slack, because I realize I'm not better than you" is a much needed, much underappreciated thing.

I think that may be part of the underlying goal when people point out when someone's words and beliefs don't match their actions. There are some people who are quick to harshly judge and admonish others for supposed immoral or sinful behavior, while engaging in the same behavior privately. The televangelist might not be given slack if he has a track record of not giving slack to others.

 

[PureX]

People believe whatever suits their desires. And they act in pursuit of those desires when they are able. But they are not always able. And anyway, their desires can change according to the whim of the moment. So thinking that we can 'read people' and predict their actions based on their proclaimed beliefs, or based on some previous activity is going to be shown wrong a lot of the time.

 

[an anarchist]

We can't see into peoples heads (yet). So we have no way to argue peoples believes and must therefore assume that what they say about their believes is true. Do we though?

Do we believe someone truly and confidently believes that the 2nd coming is near when they have 401(k) plan?
Do we think that the fire-and-brimstone preacher really believes in hell when he's embezzling money from his own church (or worse)?
Do you really believe there is no free will but you vehemently refuse to do what you have been ordered to do?

I've always taken the position that we should take peoples position as granted when they say they believe X. But what when their actions refute their words?

Often times, the charge will be laid against me that I'm a filthy statist as opposed to a glorious anarchist because I use government services (like welfare). There might be some truth in that. A "true" anarchist is self sufficient without government. I am not.