Do you really have a choice?

[Trailblazer]

I think free will is not same as the ability to do whatever one wants. By what I have understood, free will means only that one can want whatever he wants.

I think free will means we have volition and the ability to choose what we will do.
We make choices according to our desires, but that does not mean we can choose anything we desire, since free will has many constraints.

 

[Trailblazer]

I think it is about learning to be happy with want you have. I do about 20 miles on a bike just being out enjoying nature makes me happy. Other people out and about, most I don't really know often smile and wave as I go by. Sometimes I remind my self to just observe nature and life around me. I find peace in that.

When I worked in the office, before Covid, I rode my bike to work and back every day, a 24 mile round trip, but I gradually stopped riding my bike after I started to work from home, and now I go on long walks in the country, which is where I live. I might go back to riding my bike someday, I am playing that by ear.

I am trying to learn to be happy, but it is difficult, because I have so many things in my life that make me depressed and anxious.

My unhappiness is mostly the result of material things, namely the three houses that I own and have to manage all alone, now that my husband has died, and I have no other help from family or friends. Sometimes people say that I have a choice, I can sell the houses, but I do not think I can make that choice, because there are reasons to keep them than to sell them. I have enough money to pay anyone to help me and if it is something that has to be taken care of like a home repair I do hire a contractor, but I am still stuck managing everything else on my own, which can be overwhelming at times.

I also have eight Persian cats I have to care for on my own, and that requires a lot of grooming. At least when I was married I had help with the cats, even though I did not have help with the houses. On top of all that, I still have a full time job, and there are a lot of technology changes coming my way at work which are causing a lot of anxiety.

Since the only things that give me joy in this life are the cats and nature, getting rid of the cats is not an option, and where I live in the country is smack dab in the middle of nature, so moving somewhere else would take that away from me. Moreover, it would make no sense to move, which is why I don't move. It would make more sense to get someone to help me take care of the house, but my feelings prevent me from doing that, since I don't like strangers in my house unless there is a repair that has to be done. You might think I put myself in a Catch-22 situation, but I don't think this is how it is, since I alone know what I am able to do.

So my solution has been to try to learn to live with what is and appreciate what I have, since I don't feel like I can change most things in my life.
Since my husband died I have decided to do a few things I enjoy, simple things like watching TV programs and making some meals that I enjoy.
The problem is that there are many things I know I cannot do as a single woman, like traveling, and I don't enjoy eating out or doing other activities by myself, except walking and biking.

 

[Trailblazer]

I've been taking the kids out to the woods more frequently since its warmed up here. I'm noticing being out amongst the trees to bring me a bit of happiness as well.

I know your family situation can be difficult to manage, but I think that you derive happiness for your husband and the kids.
Not to bemoan my plight, but that is a happiness I don't think I will ever have. At least once I had a husband, even though we had no kids, but now it is not looking like I will ever get married again. I am trying to accept that but it's hard, after being married for 37 years.

 

[Trailblazer]

No. Free will is having the choice to go against your better judgment, aka, your conscience.

That would be like a person who commits a murder, knowing it is not the right thing to do.
Of course, many murderers don't even think what they are doing is wrong because they don't have a conscience.
Still, they are responsible for the murders that they commit and they are held accountable in courts of law.

 

[Spice]

That would be like a person who commits a murder, knowing it is not the right thing to do.

True

Of course, many murderers don't even think what they are doing is wrong because they don't have a conscience.

They have one, unless they're truly psychopaths, but they can, and do, ignore it.

Still, they are responsible for the murders that they commit and they are held accountable in courts of law.

That they are!

 

[Trailblazer]

Here is something I want to put out here:

Can we just believe something is true just because we want to believe it?
Using the Bible as an example, can we believe the Bible is true just because we want to believe that?
I know that I cannot make myself believe that much of what is in the Bible is true.

Can people believe that God exists just because they want to believe that?
I know that I cannot make myself believe that God doesn't exist, even though I sometimes want to believe that.

Is a religious belief or belief in God a choice people can make?

 

[Trailblazer]

They have one, unless they're truly psychopaths, but they can, and do, ignore it.

That's true, but there are degrees of conscience. Some people feel a little guilty but not guilty enough to stop them from committing the crime.

Even psychopaths are held accountable for rapes and murders, as they should be.

 

[Nakosis]

When I worked in the office, before Covid, I rode my bike to work and back every day, a 24 mile round trip, but I gradually stopped riding my bike after I started to work from home, and now I go on long walks in the country, which is where I live. I might go back to riding my bike someday, I am playing that by ear.

I am trying to learn to be happy, but it is difficult, because I have so many things in my life that make me depressed and anxious.

My unhappiness is mostly the result of material things, namely the three houses that I own and have to manage all alone, now that my husband has died, and I have no other help from family or friends. Sometimes people say that I have a choice, I can sell the houses, but I do not think I can make that choice, because there are reasons to keep them than to sell them. I have enough money to pay anyone to help me and if it is something that has to be taken care of like a home repair I do hire a contractor, but I am still stuck managing everything else on my own, which can be overwhelming at times.

I also have eight Persian cats I have to care for on my own, and that requires a lot of grooming. At least when I was married I had help with the cats, even though I did not have help with the houses. On top of all that, I still have a full time job, and there are a lot of technology changes coming my way at work which are causing a lot of anxiety.

Since the only things that give me joy in this life are the cats and nature, getting rid of the cats is not an option, and where I live in the country is smack dab in the middle of nature, so moving somewhere else would take that away from me. Moreover, it would make no sense to move, which is why I don't move. It would make more sense to get someone to help me take care of the house, but my feelings prevent me from doing that, since I don't like strangers in my house unless there is a repair that has to be done. You might think I put myself in a Catch-22 situation, but I don't think this is how it is, since I alone know what I am able to do.

So my solution has been to try to learn to live with what is and appreciate what I have, since I don't feel like I can change most things in my life.
Since my husband died I have decided to do a few things I enjoy, simple things like watching TV programs and making some meals that I enjoy.
The problem is that there are many things I know I cannot do as a single woman, like traveling, and I don't enjoy eating out or doing other activities by myself, except walking and biking.

You know there are companies that will manage your houses for you. You pay them so I don't know if it'd be worth it to you but if it gets too much.

I used to have cats. Couldn't handle it when they were killed though. So no more cats but I do miss having them around.

 

[Spice]

That's true, but there are degrees of conscience. Some people feel a little guilty but not guilty enough to stop them from committing the crime.

Yes, that's their free will in action.

Even psychopaths are held accountable for rapes and murders, as they should be.

Absolutely, that's the free will of citizenry in action at the polls when electing lawmakers.

 

[soulsurvivor]

I believe that God knows everything that will ever happen to everyone throughout their lives and all that is written on the Tablet of Fate.

I believe that some things that happen to us in this life are predestined (fated) by God, and we have no control over these things.

God knows everything only in the sense that time does not exist for God - part, present and future are all taking place simultaneously - the future has already occurred as far as God is concerned. However, seen from a human's perspective the future (which God has already seen) is not fixed or predestined.

Although we are limited by our circumstances in life - the place we live, the jobs we have and so on, within those constraints we have complete free will to do what we want. Of course, we cannot control the results of our actions which can depend on many external conditions and events.

 

[Trailblazer]

God knows everything only in the sense that time does not exist for God - part, present and future are all taking place simultaneously - the future has already occurred as far as God is concerned. However, seen from a human's perspective the future (which God has already seen) is not fixed or predestined.

Very well stated. I agree with everything you said.

Although we are limited by our circumstances in life - the place we live, the jobs we have and so on, within those constraints we have complete free will to do what we want. Of course, we cannot control the results of our actions which can depend on many external conditions and events.

I think we are limited by more than our present circumstances in life - the place we live, the jobs we have and so. I think we are also limited by our our heredity, our education, and all of our past childhood and adult experiences who made us who we are. I believe in a kind of deterministic free will.

 

[Trailblazer]

You know there are companies that will manage your houses for you. You pay them so I don't know if it'd be worth it to you but if it gets too much.

Yes, I know that, and I could certainly afford it, but no management would tolerate what I let my tenants get away with since they have rules, so I never seriously considered it. Besides, it would just involve another player which would make it more complicated for me to manage.

I used to have cats. Couldn't handle it when they were killed though. So no more cats but I do miss having them around.

Yes, I recall you telling me this before, and I certainly understand how you feel, given I used to be suicidal over the loss of my cats, I spent many a night in urgent care, and was in counseling primarily for grief owing to cat loss for 15 years. Sometime about 10 years ago I started to turn a corner so I handle it better now than in the past, although it is always really difficult.

 

[1213]

I think free will means we have volition and the ability to choose what we will do.
We make choices according to our desires, but that does not mean we can choose anything we desire, since free will has many constraints.

It seems to me that you think free will is basically the same as being omnipotent. If so, why do you think so?

 

[Trailblazer]

It seems to me that you think free will is basically the same as being omnipotent. If so, why do you think so?

No, I do not think that free will means we are omnipotent.
Since humans are not omnipotent, we cannot choose to do and do anything that we want to do.
Only God can choose to do anything He wants to do because only God is omnipotent.

“Say: O people! Let not this life and its deceits deceive you, for the world and all that is therein is held firmly in the grasp of His Will. He bestoweth His favor on whom He willeth, and from whom He willeth He taketh it away. He doth whatsoever He chooseth.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 209

Humans are free to desire anything they want to desire but they are not free to do anything they want to do.
That is why I said:
"We make choices according to our desires, but that does not mean we can choose anything we desire, since free will has many constraints."

 

[1213]

Humans are free to desire anything they want to desire but they are not free to do anything they want to do.
That is why I said:
"We make choices according to our desires, but that does not mean we can choose anything we desire, since free will has many constraints."

Sorry, that still sounds to me that you think, having free will means that a person could do (choose) anything. I think free will means we can desire anything, but it does not mean we can choose or do everything we desire.

 

[Trailblazer]

Sorry, that still sounds to me that you think, having free will means that a person could do (choose) anything. I think free will means we can desire anything, but it does not mean we can choose or do everything we desire.

That is what I said.
"We make choices according to our desires, but that does not mean we can choose anything we desire, since free will has many constraints."

 

[1213]

That is what I said.
"We make choices according to our desires, but that does not mean we can choose anything we desire, since free will has many constraints."

Hmmm... I still don't think my will has any constraints, because I can freely want or desire. To me will means to want something. And I can freely want what ever I want.

 

[PureX]

What God knows is God's problem.

What I know is that I have very little control over what happens to me in this life. I do, however, have some control over how I respond to what happens to me. And I can perhaps use how I respond to what happens to me to determine what will happen to me, next.

So that is where I try to focus my attention.

I am also aware that how I respond to what happens to me is likely to effect what happens to those around me. So I want to try and mitigate causing unnecessary tharm to anyone else.

But in all of this I will fail. And so will others. So I need to learn to forgive others and to forgive myself. And to forgive God if God is in fact controlling all of this.

Apart from this there is nothing I can do.

 

[ChristineM]

I believe that God knows everything that will ever happen to everyone throughout their lives and all that is written on the Tablet of Fate.

I don't believe a god or gods exist so i don't believe that the future is known by anyone or anything.

I believe that some things that happen to us in this life are predestined (fated) by God, and we have no control over these things.

Again i don't

However, I believe that most of what happens in our lives is chosen by us and then acted upon. God knows what those choices will be because God has perfect foreknowledge, but God’s foreknowledge has no bearing upon what we choose to do, nor does it limit our choices in any way.

I can walk out of our front door for a walk and decide to turn left or right or go straight ahead, free will in action.

I believe that our choices are determined by many factors that we have no control over, so I think that free will is very limited.

True that there are many factors involved on making a free will decision, we would not be human if for example, we didnt take note of the weather or traffic or availability of whatever product is needed to make an informed decision.

Such foreknowledge by your god as suggested in your OP raised many questions on the morality of any such god.

 

[Trailblazer]

Hmmm... I still don't think my will has any constraints, because I can freely want or desire. To me will means to want something. And I can freely want what ever I want.

You are free to want whatever you want but you are not free to do whatever you want to so. What you are able to do is constrained.