Do you really have a choice?

[CG Didymus]

And who designed the human capable of committing evil?

Yes, built into the design. And the designer, the God believed in by some religions, knew what designing people like that would cause... and he did it anyway?

 

[Trailblazer]

And who designed the human capable of committing evil?

the same one who designed the one capable of doing good.

 

[Trailblazer]

Yes, built into the design. And the designer, the God believed in by some religions, knew what designing people like that would cause... and he did it anyway?

With free will comes BOTH good and evil, it is unavoidable, but if everyone followed the Laws of God, there would be no evil in the world.
That is the only viable solution, always has been.

“God hath in that Book, and by His behest, decreed as lawful whatsoever He hath pleased to decree, and hath, through the power of His sovereign might, forbidden whatsoever He elected to forbid. To this testifieth the text of that Book. Will ye not bear witness? Men, however, have wittingly broken His law. Is such a behavior to be attributed to God, or to their proper selves? Be fair in your judgment. Every good thing is of God, and every evil thing is from yourselves. Will ye not comprehend? This same truth hath been revealed in all the Scriptures, if ye be of them that understand.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 149-150

 

[CG Didymus]

It doesn't mean that .. it doesn't mean that we have no control over our destiny.
What it DOES mean, is that we perceive time differently to G-d.

Sure, in your beliefs, it doesn't mean that. Luckily... we are free to believe something different... Something that makes more sense to us.

 

[ChristineM]

the same one who designed the one capable of doing good.

There ya go. Thank you,

 

[muhammad_isa]

And who designed the human capable of committing evil?

The problem with "the blame game" is that it attempts to shift blame from one to another.
I would have thought it obvious, that human beings can be responsible for things..
eg. a teacher is responsible for teaching their pupils and behaving in a suitable manner

That is not to say that they are SOLELY responsible eg. the headteacher is responsible for their staff

etc. etc.

 

[CG Didymus]

There ya go. Thank you,

I just looked at another thread and here is what another Baha'i said...

This world, as it is now, with all its conditions, are created as per God's Will.
There is nothing that happens in the world, if God does not want it to happen.

Both TB and IT are just taking the teachings from their religion and saying stuff. Is any of it the things, in some mystical spirit world, real?

In another religion, it teaches that God made everything good, then that doggone Satan messed it all up. Now that's a real good way to get God off the hook for screwing up.... except.... Why did he create Satan?

Anyway, it seems like it's just religious people trying to make sense of how their God can be all-knowing and all-good and loving and to have still created a world as messed up as this. Blame Satan? Blame people? But definitely... don't blame God. He's perfect.

 

[ChristineM]

The problem with "the blame game" is that it attempts to shift blame from one to another.
I would have thought it obvious, that human beings can be responsible for things..
eg. a teacher is responsible for teaching their pupils and behaving in a suitable manner

That is not to say that they are SOLELY responsible eg. the headteacher is responsible for their staff

etc. etc.

The blame exists. Who is responsible to take the blame depends just how much one wants to excuse their god whom they say designed everything but are not willing to assign accountabilitie for errors in the design.

Alternatively you can believe no gods exist and the blame lies solely with the human.lp

 

[muhammad_isa]

The blame exists. Who is responsible to take the blame depends just how much one wants to excuse their god..

No "the blame game" exists, because people are petty and irresponsible, and wish to pass the buck, imo.
In a few cases, it is appropriate to seek legal action against those who refuse to take responsibility.

..but against a possible Creator? Ridiculous!
Nothing to be gained .. only loss, from following satan's footsteps.

errors in the design..

I've already explained .. there are no "errors" as such.
Right .. life can be extremely uncomfortable, often through no fault of our own..
..but blaming G-d for this cannot ease our pain .. on the contrary .. satan only makes false promises,
whilst G-d's promises CANNOT fail !
Alhamdullilah. (All praise is due for G-d)

'Now' must pass .. tomorrow is another day.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

I just looked at another thread and here is what another Baha'i said...

Both TB and IT are just taking the teachings from their religion and saying stuff. Is any of it the things, in some mystical spirit world, real?

In another religion, it teaches that God made everything good, then that doggone Satan messed it all up. Now that's a real good way to get God off the hook for screwing up.... except.... Why did he create Satan?

Anyway, it seems like it's just religious people trying to make sense of how their God can be all-knowing and all-good and loving and to have still created a world as messed up as this. Blame Satan? Blame people? But definitely... don't blame God. He's perfect.

Yes, but according to those religions, who created the Satan? And why the powerful Lord, does not just kill Mr. Satan?

See, if we take those stories literal, they are nothing but childish stories. They are good to read them to your little children before sleeping.

 

[ChristineM]

No "the blame game" exists, because people are petty and irresponsible, and wish to pass the buck, imo.
In a few cases, it is appropriate to seek legal action against those who refuse to take responsibility.

..but against a possible Creator? Ridiculous!
Nothing to be gained .. only loss, from following satan's footsteps.

Why must god believers want it both ways? What you want is god did it all but but the bad stuff.

I've already explained .. there are no "errors" as such.
Right .. life can be extremely uncomfortable, often through no fault of our own..
..but blaming G-d for this cannot ease our pain .. on the contrary .. satan only makes false promises,
whilst G-d's promises CANNOT fail !
Alhamdullilah. (All praise is due for G-d)

Who made Satan?

Oops another mistake ;-)

 

[muhammad_isa]

Who made Satan?

Oops another mistake ;-)

Same thing .. satan was once a pious individual .. but he fell from grace through pride.

We have been taught that as an example, so happily we will avoid going down "that road".
If not, we can't say we haven't been warned.
i.e. Pride comes before a fall

 

[Trailblazer]

I just looked at another thread and here is what another Baha'i said...

Both TB and IT are just taking the teachings from their religion and saying stuff. Is any of it the things, in some mystical spirit world, real?

In another religion, it teaches that God made everything good, then that doggone Satan messed it all up. Now that's a real good way to get God off the hook for screwing up.... except.... Why did he create Satan?

Anyway, it seems like it's just religious people trying to make sense of how their God can be all-knowing and all-good and loving and to have still created a world as messed up as this. Blame Satan? Blame people? But definitely... don't blame God. He's perfect.

InvestigateTruth said:
This world, as it is now, with all its conditions, are created as per God's Will.
There is nothing that happens in the world, if God does not want it to happen.

What thread was that on? As I vaguely recall, I responded to something like that, and I said that there are many things that happen in this world that God does not want to happen. What God wants to happen and what God allows to happen are not the same. God does not want evil people to do evil things but God allows that since God honors free will.

@InvestigateTruth is a Baha'i who believes that everything that happens is predestined by God, but that is not what the Baha'i Writings say.

Question.—Is man a free agent in all his actions, or is he compelled and constrained?

Answer.—This question is one of the most important and abstruse of divine problems. If God wills, another day, at the beginning of dinner, we will undertake the explanation of this subject in detail; now we will explain it briefly, in a few words, as follows. Some things are subject to the free will of man, such as justice, equity, tyranny and injustice, in other words, good and evil actions; it is evident and clear that these actions are, for the most part, left to the will of man. But there are certain things to which man is forced and compelled, such as sleep, death, sickness, decline of power, injuries and misfortunes; these are not subject to the will of man, and he is not responsible for them, for he is compelled to endure them. But in the choice of good and bad actions he is free, and he commits them according to his own will..

Some Answered Questions, p. 248

You can read the whole chapter on free will on this link; 70: FREE WILL

 

[ChristineM]

Same thing .. satan was once a pious individual .. but he fell from grace through pride.

We have been taught that as an example, so happily we will avoid going down "that road".
If not, we can't say we haven't been warned.
i.e. Pride comes before a fall

Pious or not, it is said he was still created by an omni everything god.

Are you saying that god was not aware of what he was making?

 

[Trailblazer]

Yes, but according to those religions, who created the Satan? And why the powerful Lord, does not just kill Mr. Satan?

As I am sure you know, Baha'is do not believe there is an entity called Satan.

“…… according to the will of Satan, by which we mean the natural inclinations of the lower nature. This lower nature in man is symbolized as Satan—the evil ego within us, not an evil personality outside.”
Abdu’l-Baha, The Promulgation of Universal Peace, pp. 286-287

“The reality underlying this question is that the evil spirit, Satan or whatever is interpreted as evil, refers to the lower nature in man. This baser nature is symbolized in various ways. In man there are two expressions, one is the expression of nature, the other the expression of the spiritual realm…. God has never created an evil spirit; all such ideas and nomenclature are symbols expressing the mere human or earthly nature of man. It is an essential condition of the soil of earth that thorns, weeds and fruitless trees may grow from it. Relatively speaking, this is evil; it is simply the lower state and baser product of nature.”
Abdu’l-Baha, Promulgation of Universal Peace, pp. 294–295

 

[danieldemol]

I know from direct experience. And psychiatrist are the first to question why you chose what you chose.

Questioning why you chose what you chose is not the same as answering that it was a choice free of internal constraints in my view.

There are still options. I "know"

Ah the usual strawman generator of freewill asserters I see in my view.

 

[Trailblazer]

Pious or not, it is said he was still created by an omni everything god.

Are you saying that god was not aware of what he was making?

Baha'is do not believe that there is a being called Satan. See post #95 .

 

[ChristineM]

Baha'is do not believe that there is a being called Satan. See post above this one.

I wasn't talking to you, @muhammad_isa does

 

[muhammad_isa]

Are you saying that god was not aware of what he was making?

Obviously not.

He was well aware of what He created.
..and the jury is still out .. will evil triumph over righteousness?

..satan wants you to think so .. but anybody who follows him, likewise becomes a fool.
We can always repent .. better that we do now, because we can't be sure about tomorrow.

..at least make the intention to be righteous, even if we struggle to put it into practice.

 

[Trailblazer]

I wasn't talking to you, @muhammad_isa does

I knew you were not talking to me. Do you only talk to people who talked to you?