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Do you really have a choice?

ChristineM

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
muhammad_isa said:
Obviously not. :rolleyes:

He was well aware of what He created.
..and the jury is still out .. will evil triumph over righteousness?

..satan wants you to think so .. but anybody who follows him, likewise becomes a fool.
We can always repent .. better that we do now, because we can't be sure about tomorrow.

..at least make the intention to be righteous, even if we struggle to put it into practice.
Click to expand...

Yet he still created Satan.

Interesting eh?

FYI..

ExfqpnRWEAEpqiB.jpg

And those 10 were at gods command.

So who's the bad guy?.
 
Trailblazer

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
ChristineM said:
Yet he still created Satan.

Interesting eh?
Click to expand...
No, God did not create Satan since Satan doesn't exist.
ChristineM said:
FYI..

View attachment 90412

And those 10 were at gods command.

So who's the bad guy?.
Click to expand...
God did not command any such things...
Men wrote stories about what God did and there is no reason to even pay attention to those, not unless you are an atheist who insists on using the Bible stores to blame God for everything. It's too bad you have nothing else to try to build a case against God except the Bible.
 
ChristineM

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
Trailblazer said:
No, God did not create Satan since Satan doesn't exist.

God did not command any such things...
Men wrote stories about what God did and there is no reason to even pay attention to those, not unless you are an atheist who insists on using the Bible stores to blame God for everything. It's too bad you have nothing else to try to build a case against God except the Bible.
Click to expand...

Thats your believe from a small religion and pretty much irrelevant to my answer

i was answering @muhammad_isa who belongs to one of the major religions and that is his belief.
 
InvestigateTruth

InvestigateTruth

Veteran Member
Trailblazer said:
InvestigateTruth said:
This world, as it is now, with all its conditions, are created as per God's Will.
There is nothing that happens in the world, if God does not want it to happen.

What thread was that on? As I vaguely recall, I responded to something like that, and I said that there are many things that happen in this world that God does not want to happen. What God wants to happen and what God allows to happen are not the same. God does not want evil people to do evil things but God allows that since God honors free will.

@InvestigateTruth is a Baha'i who believes that everything that happens is predestined by God, but that is not what the Baha'i Writings say.

Question.—Is man a free agent in all his actions, or is he compelled and constrained?

Answer.—This question is one of the most important and abstruse of divine problems. If God wills, another day, at the beginning of dinner, we will undertake the explanation of this subject in detail; now we will explain it briefly, in a few words, as follows. Some things are subject to the free will of man, such as justice, equity, tyranny and injustice, in other words, good and evil actions; it is evident and clear that these actions are, for the most part, left to the will of man. But there are certain things to which man is forced and compelled, such as sleep, death, sickness, decline of power, injuries and misfortunes; these are not subject to the will of man, and he is not responsible for them, for he is compelled to endure them. But in the choice of good and bad actions he is free, and he commits them according to his own will..

Some Answered Questions, p. 248

You can read the whole chapter on free will on this link; 70: FREE WILL
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It was in the "what is your belief" thread.

Actually, what I said is very similar to a quote in the Ruhi Book 1.
 
Trailblazer

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
InvestigateTruth said:
It was in the "what is your belief" thread.

Actually, what I said is very similar to a quote in the Ruhi Book 1.
Click to expand...
I never took any of the Ruhi classes. Where does it say that:

This world, as it is now, with all its conditions, are created as per God's Will.
There is nothing that happens in the world, if God does not want it to happen.

In my opinion, the problem with Ruhi books is that it is someone's interpretation of the Writings.
That would be a like a Christian going to Church and getting told by a preacher what the Bible means.
 
muhammad_isa

muhammad_isa

Veteran Member
ChristineM said:
Yet he still created Satan...
Click to expand...
..but not in isolation..
There are many "satans" .. but you refer to the "original accuser" with Adam & Eve.

ChristineM said:
So who's the bad guy?.
Click to expand...
Fortunately, statistics is a favorite subject of mine, and am not impressed easily.
Also, I've been trying to follow a righteous path for long enough to know a few of satans' (plural)
tricks.

..and get it right .. G-d is not "a guy" .. neither is G-d "a gal" .. in fact, G-d is not a person,
as is usually understood.
Human beings are often flippant .. I know because I am one.
..and yet, if we realized how Great G-d actually is, we would take it seriously.

..and before you ask, G-d has created all we see with a reason .. and life is more than idle amusement.
G-d hides many things from our perception, while on this journey on earth .. it is but a part of
an eternal journey .. like it or not.
 
InvestigateTruth

InvestigateTruth

Veteran Member
Trailblazer said:
I never took any of the Ruhi classes. Where does it say that:

This world, as it is now, with all its conditions, are created as per God's Will.
There is nothing that happens in the world, if God does not want it to happen.

In my opinion, the problem with Ruhi books is that it is someone's interpretation of the Writings.
That would be a like a Christian going to Church and getting told by a preacher what the Bible means.
Click to expand...

Some of them are actually quotes. But yes, some of it are opinions of the righters.

I dont remember the exact quote.
 
Trailblazer

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
InvestigateTruth said:
Some of them are actually quotes. But yes, some of it are opinions of the righters.

I dont remember the exact quote.
Click to expand...
"This world, as it is now, with all its conditions, are created as per God's Will."

I would say that this world was created as per God's Will.
I would not say that the world, as it is now, with all its conditions, is God's will, since it because what it became by virtue of human free will choices and actions.

"There is nothing that happens in the world, if God does not want it to happen."

I would say that is debatable and it depends upon what is meant by 'want.'
For example, God might want certain bad things to happen because they serve a higher purpose.
 
InvestigateTruth

InvestigateTruth

Veteran Member
Trailblazer said:
"This world, as it is now, with all its conditions, are created as per God's Will."

I would say that this world was created as per God's Will.
I would not say that the world, as it is now, with all its conditions, is God's will, since it because what it became by virtue of human free will choices and actions.

"There is nothing that happens in the world, if God does not want it to happen."

I would say that is debatable and it depends upon what is meant by 'want.'
For example, God might want certain bad things to happen because they serve a higher purpose.
Click to expand...

That's true too.
But, we also have in the Writings that, everything becomes meaningful against its opposite. If there was no darkness, light was meaningless. So, every good attribute only exist, against the opposite.
If there was no injustice, then justice did not make sense. So, for these attributes to Manifest in this world, the opposite must exist. This is how God created this world.

There is a verse in the Quran:

"And of every thing We have created pairs: That ye may receive instruction" 51:49

I understand this to mean, "light and darkness", "kindness and cruelty", "justice and injustice",..etc.
So, this world is exactly as God wanted to be. It is not like, God wanted it to be a nicer place, but it is not.
 
CG Didymus

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
InvestigateTruth said:
Yes, but according to those religions, who created the Satan? And why the powerful Lord, does not just kill Mr. Satan?

See, if we take those stories literal, they are nothing but childish stories. They are good to read them to your little children before sleeping.
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Yes, there is a problem taking some Scriptures of some religions literally. Yet... people do. Whether they are children or adults, they are told Satan is real and that hell is real.

And why would they be "good" to read to children?
ChristineM said:
Thats your believe from a small religion and pretty much irrelevant to my answer

i was answering @muhammad_isa who belongs to one of the major religions and that is his belief.
Click to expand...
We all know size does matter. But it's also true "How you use it." A small cult can make big problems. The Baha'i Faith needs size to become more relevant. Right now, they are easily ignored.
 
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