Do You Support Forgiving $10,000 Of Student Loan Debt?

[Secret Chief]

Do you really think the US will actually emulate those over the pond in terms of pay and quality of work ?


I'm convinced there is a different mindset over here. Both involving employers and employees.

There certainly is a different mindset!

 

[Secret Chief]

Yeah, here in the US we hate the idea of anyone getting something for nothing. Even when the results are good for everyone. Greed rules our minds and perverts all our opinions and decisions. Mostly it turns us all against each other by making us all life and death competitors. We are a very wealthy nation and yet we live like we're all on the edge of extinction.

"Society" is just a leftwing lie.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Erm...I don't get your point.

Consider;
There are 100 spaces for medical degrees, and they are provided to the best 100 students who can afford $200,000 in course fees/loans

vs

There are 100 spaces for medical degrees, and they are provided to the best 100 students, free of charge

You're actually INCREASING competition for the spaces, based on merit (at least loosely) rather than affluence. And giving out exactly the same number of medical degrees. And no-one is being handed a damn thing.

Problem with oversaturation is one, it will generally lower salaries and wages because there will always be someone to fill the gaps.

Two, there probably is a massive pool of people with the same degree who can't find a job that is well paying and available.

This only benefits the corporation side of things as they can shell out less money and pocket more profits.

That's where I'm coming from.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Problem with oversaturation is one, it will generally lower salaries and wages because there will always be someone to fill the gaps.

Two, there probably is a massive pool of people with the same degree who can't find a job that is well paying and available.

This only benefits the corporation side of things as they can shell out less money and pocket more profits.

That's where I'm coming from.

If you made more degrees accessible, I get your point.
But making the same number of degrees accessible, simply for low/no cost completely avoids this issue of oversaturation and redundancy.

You seem to be assuming that making a doctor's degree cheaper leads to more doctors.

 

[Twilight Hue]

If you made more degrees accessible, I get your point.
But making the same number of degrees accessible, simply for low/no cost completely avoids this issue of oversaturation and redundancy.

You seem to be assuming that making a doctor's degree cheaper leads to more doctors.

Are doctor degrees going to now be among the free choices?

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

Why should debt be forgiven??

Why should anything be forgiven? Why should there be bankruptcy instead of debtor's prison?

It spits in the face of those who took out loans and payed it back over time in good faith.

That depends on what kind of a person he is. If he's loving and empathetic, values education in others, and wishes to facilitate its spread, he won't feel that way.

You're describing the bitter resentment that characterizes the growing class of selfish Americans, people who think only of themselves. If debt forgiveness doesn't benefit them, they are opposed to it and resent others getting it, even if they don't pay taxes to help underwrite it.

Who remembers Goofus and Gallant, a morality teaching cartoon seen in Highlights for Kids magazines? Here are a couple of typical cartoons, with Goofus on the left:

Not surprisingly, Goofus resents debt forgiveness as much as he resents his brother or somebody getting an extra apple, whereas Gallant is the opposite in every respect.

Are doctor degrees going to now be among the free choices?

Why not? Apart from providing society with an essential service, doctors will pay a lot more in taxes over a career than may others costing just as much to educate. The government will get its investment back in spades.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

It appears that Biden is expected to announce Wed Aug 24th, 2022 that $10,000 of student a loan will be forgiven for those who make less that $150,000 a year.
So basicaly Biden is saying that if you or your family paid off a student loan that they were stupid, that U.S. taxpayers have to pay for someone who signed a contract and if they meet the requirements will have part of what they agreed to pay forgiven.
Wonder how this boondoggle will affect inflation.
Joe Biden expected to announce $10,000 student loan forgiveness program Wednesday: report

It is sad to see 60% voted yes on this poll. Not sure the specifics yet but this just puts more burden on low income families. The lower the family income the lower the college attendees. So the group with the lowest college participation will pay for tuition for higher income groups through their taxes. What an immoral act by Biden and the democrats. People that take out a loan should have a plan to pay off that loan. That is right and moral.

This just gives the big finger to the people like me who paid for my college and planned and am currently paying for my kids education without loans. That takes responsibility and sacrifice for 18 years. I also have paid back all the loans I have ever taken out for cars and a home. This is an obvious pander to the middle class to get votes in the midterms.

Instead of paying people loans we should give the money to families making less than $50k/year to get vocational training so they can get higher paying jobs.

 

[PureX]

I prefer making college more affordable like it used to be.

Colleges have become corporate money pumps, like everything else has in the land of capitalist greed. All the top 'administrators' are pulling down big salaries while they are eliminating tenured professors and replacing them with low paid 'student teachers' and revolving 'visiting professors' that will never get tenure or a decent wage. Leaving all the more profit for the top administrators. Big universities swallow up the smaller ones and eliminate the smaller one's administrators so they can get that money, too. Leaving those smaller universities way under-managed and often left to die of neglect.

Greed poisons everything it touches and in the US it touches everything. Including higher education.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Why should anything be forgiven? Why should there be bankruptcy instead of debtor's prison?

Bankruptcy isn't forgiveness and its not free either. There are well specified consequences for going that route.

What are the consequences of filing for bankruptcy? | District of Oregon | United States Bankruptcy Court

Also people are not always in an economic hole.

Many who go to college are able to pay back comfortably. If a person can do that, there is no need for someone else to pay their bills.

If a person is actually smart enough to enter college, then they ought to have enough brains to prepare and think ahead rather than recklessly enter into a debt over their head. Most save for their education first. That's the difference between a smart person and one who cannot think before leaping.
.
Remember the Boy Scout motto? Be prepared.

 

[PureX]

Instead of paying people loans we should give the money to families making less than $50k/year to get vocational training so they can get higher paying jobs.

If there were more "vocationally trained" people in the job market their pay would be cut. And they'd be right back where they started. Because some college educated bean-counter with no moral compass will know that he can exploit that "weakness" for a fat profit.

 

[Suave]

It appears that Biden is expected to announce Wed Aug 24th, 2022 that $10,000 of student a loan will be forgiven for those who make less that $150,000 a year.
So basicaly Biden is saying that if you or your family paid off a student loan that they were stupid, that U.S. taxpayers have to pay for someone who signed a contract and if they meet the requirements will have part of what they agreed to pay forgiven.
Wonder how this boondoggle will affect inflation.
Joe Biden expected to announce $10,000 student loan forgiveness program Wednesday: report

I urged my daughter for us to not pay off her student debt, because I figured this should be forgiven, I really appreciate this government stimulus debt relief for us straddled with student loan debt, but I am disappointed this debt cancellation is limited to only $10,000. I'd like this to be $20,000 in order for my daughter's entire student loan debt to be cancelled. If we owed nothing for student loans, we could afford to buy our daughter a nice slightly used Chevy Bolt E,V,

 

[Twilight Hue]

If there were more "vocationally trained" people in the job market their pay would be cut. And they'd be right back where they started. Because some college educated bean-counter with no moral compass will know that he can exploit that "weakness" for a fat profit.

Look at what happened with Data Processing Degrees.

It was a big thing when it first was introduced.

High pay.....

Plenty of growth.....

Set for life.....

The memories of that pitch.

Then the oversaturation of graduates grew and grew...

14.62 an hour in my area. That's the result of a two year education in the field now. Below the proposed minimum wage of 15.00.

NYC is about 20.00 hour.

 

[PureX]

Look at what happened with Data Processing Degrees.

It was a big thing when it first was introduced.

High pay.....

Plenty of growth.....

Set for life.....

The memories of that pitch.

Then the oversaturation of graduates grew and grew...

14.62 an hour in my area. That's the result of a two year education in the field now. Below the proposed minimum wage of 15.00.

Greed never sleeps. Those folks played right into the 'master's' hands and the masters got exactly what they wanted; skilled labor that they could pay peanuts for. All they had to do is promise a pot of gold and watch everyone run for the computer school doors.

 

[Suave]

Not at all. Why should debt be forgiven??

A person applied for a loan, and agreed to pay it back.

It spits in the face of those who took out loans and payed it back over time in good faith.

Is there something, anything special about this generation or class of people that warrants it as an exception from others before them? Are they exceptional somehow? I'd sure like to know.

We perhaps can agree with student loan debt forgiveness as being fair social justice, because there should have been tuition free college in the first place. Furthermore, those of us who are afforded student loan debt forgiveness will now have more money to spend on consumer goods and services, which will stimulate the economy,

 

[Twilight Hue]

Greed never sleeps. Those folks played right into the 'master's' hands and the masters got exactly what they wanted; skilled labor that they could pay peanuts for. All they had to do is promise a pot of gold and watch everyone run for the computer school doors.

And now they are returning to college. More loans, more money, getting a BS or Masters because a two year degree in that field has become essentially 'worthless'.

 

[Rival]

If a person is actually smart enough to enter college, then they ought to have enough brains to prepare and think ahead rather than recklessly enter into a debt over their head. Most save for their education first. That's the difference between a smart person and one who cannot think before leaping.

You are mostly talking about 18 year olds though. These folks barely know how to cook a steak, let alone manage finances and picture what debt really means.

 

[Shaul]

I think all those in favor of decreasing student debt should take up collections among themselves from their own money and pay off as much student debt as they want. But they should keep their paws off of anyone else’s hard earned money .

Exodus 20:17

 

[Secret Chief]

If a person is actually smart enough to enter college, then they ought to have enough brains to prepare and think ahead rather than recklessly enter into a debt over their head. Most save for their education first.

No-one pre-18 can possibly save up enough money to get them through university. Three years of course fees and living expenses? A lot of adults couldn't do that! Hence they all leave university in debt. So maybe this isn't what you mean?

 

[Twilight Hue]

We perhaps can agree with student loan debt forgiveness as being fair social justice, because there should have been tuition free college in the first place. Furthermore, those of us who are afforded student loan debt forgiveness will now have more money to spend on consumer goods and services, which will stimulate the economy,

I'm for making payments manageable, easier on a tight budget, and even complete forgiveness on interest. Free is nice but there are shortcomings and effects from freebies that can and will bite people down the road.

I have lived long enough to note that nothing in life is ever free. Best you can expect is a protracted loan under the guise that it's free.

 

[Twilight Hue]

No-one pre-18 can possibly save up enough money to get them through university. Hence they all leave university in debt. So maybe this isn't what you mean?

That's what entry level jobs are for. Nobody starts out life as a CEO.