Do You Support Forgiving $10,000 Of Student Loan Debt?

[Twilight Hue]

No. Would you be ok with taxpayer funded car ownership for everyone?

I like that already! Cept I want a truck, not a car. *grin*


Oh don't forget free fuel or volts as well!

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

I'd be okay with federally subsidized electric vehicles for working-class Americans, I'd like this taxpayer funded with fuel taxes and carbon taxes.

So you want me to pay for my education, my kids education and someone else education, you also want me to pay for my cars and someone else's cars as well.

At some point, don't you think this is immoral?

 

[Shaul]

Ask the people in Kentucky receiving FEMA benefits.

Did you really try to equate the bankrolling of indolent college students with unfortunate souls who lost everything due to natural disasters?

 

[Secret Chief]

It's kind of amazing to me how many people don't seem to understand how an educated population actually benefits everyone living in that society.

For some, society seems to just be the stage on which the individual performs (ideally unfettered).

 

[PureX]

What is your definition of education?

An education teaches you what philosophy is. What art is. What science is. What history is. And why they matter. Educated people know what logic is and how to use it to discern fact from fantasy and lies. Educated people understand politics and commerce and why these must be tightly controlled for the well-being and security of everyone. Educated people have learned how to think for themselves and so are not afraid of doing so. Or of standing up to those who think it's their job to think for everyone else.

An educated public will make good decisions based on freedom and justice and equality because THEY KNOW WHAT THOSE THINGS ARE. An educated public is the greatest asset any nation can have. And those who seek to undermine that are enemies of us all.

 

[F1fan]

"Based on a total of under 158 million taxpayers in 2019, that works out to $2,085.59 per taxpayer, the National Taxpayers Union found."

If you are in favor of this, the responsible thing to do is to tax each taxpayer the $2085 this year and pay off the debt. This would not drive up inflation and actually pay for the program. Are you willing to send in $2085 to pay others loans? I am not.

As I asked, how much have the taxpayers gotten in profits that offset this cost? It could be the average taxpayer have benefitted $3000 in profit, so even if the $2085 will be written off there is still a $915 profit.

This is the math that is missing from your scenario. You follow me here, the loans are FOR profit. The government has been profiting. Even cutting $10,000 off the top the government will still make profit. How much has the government profited so far? I'm curious.

I'm in favor of society helping educate citizens in a fair and affordable way. The Bush tax cuts meant less education funding, and that meant more cost to students, and that meant more loans given out by the government which meant the government actually profited from this scheme, and students pay more. Some face costs they can't afford. Some can handle the costs. In the big picture the wealthy got tax cuts and the average citizens, namely college students, ended up paying for it.

Don't forget a lot of this increased cost started in 2002 when Bush's tax cuts kicked in, and then we had to pay for wars, so education got cut. Students had to pay more. Then by 2009/10 the massive recession hit the USA hard, and students faced huge debt and few jobs. Many are still trying to recover during the slow recovery process. Even if students had a deferment on loan payments the interest kept going up and up, cost students more in the long run.

 

[Twilight Hue]

I'd be okay with federally subsidized electric vehicles for working-class Americans, I'd like this taxpayer funded with fuel taxes and carbon taxes.

How about the plants that generate the electricity?

 

[Twilight Hue]

I never said this.

Getting loans are not the best option.

Here is a better path:

Work hard in high school and apply for as many scholarships as you can. Five or ten $1000 scholarships add up, it takes some work but there is a lot of free money out there for college.

Two years at a community college. They are a great value. I just paid $1040 for 15 credit hours for my daughter.

Work as you go and pay as you go. Many companies will help with tuition such as Discount Tires. You are better off spending 6 years getting a 4 year degree than taking loans to get a degree in 4 years at major college.

Great planning!

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

An education teaches you what philosophy is. What art is. What science is. What history is. And why they matter. Educated people know what logic is and how to use it to discern fact from fantasy and lies. Educated people understand politics and commerce and why these must be tightly controlled for the well-being and security of everyone. Educated people have learned how to think for themselves and so are not afraid of doing so. Or of standing up to those who think it's their job to think for everyone else.

An educated public will make good decisions based on freedom and justice and equality because THEY KNOW WHAT THOSE THINGS ARE. An educated public is the greatest asset any nation can have. And those who seek to undermine that are enemies of us all.

All those things can be learned in k-12 education or on your own. If you want to learn these things at a university then you need to pay for it yourself.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

As I asked, how much have the taxpayers gotten in profits that offset this cost? It could be the average taxpayer have benefitted $3000 in profit, so even if the $2085 will be written off there is still a $915 profit.

This is the math that is missing from your scenario. You follow me here, the loans are FOR profit. The government has been profiting. Even cutting $10,000 off the top the government will still make profit. How much has the government profited so far? I'm curious.

They are not making a profit. In 2017 it cost the government $0.70 for every 100 dollars borrowed by students. In 2019 it was $4.49.

Here is the summary of the article:
If there were a profit on federal student loans, the net revenue would be used to defray the cost of other federal student aid programs, such as the Federal Pell Grant and Federal Work-Study programs. When federal legislation involves a reduction in the cost of federal student loan programs, Congress often uses the savings to justify increased spending in other parts of the U.S. Department of Education budget.

Does The Government Profit Off Of Student Loans?

I'm in favor of society helping educate citizens in a fair and affordable way.

What is this fair and affordable way?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

It appears that Biden is expected to announce Wed Aug 24th, 2022 that $10,000 of student a loan will be forgiven for those who make less that $150,000 a year.
So basicaly Biden is saying that if you or your family paid off a student loan that they were stupid, that U.S. taxpayers have to pay for someone who signed a contract and if they meet the requirements will have part of what they agreed to pay forgiven.
Wonder how this boondoggle will affect inflation.
Joe Biden expected to announce $10,000 student loan forgiveness program Wednesday: report

Only for the poor. If you make over $100,000, pay your own debts. I'm poor, never been to college and pay taxes, and shouldn't have to foot the bill for rich kids who have far more than I ever did (will?).

 

[PureX]

All those things can be learned in k-12 education or on your own.

So can every job skill in the world.

If you want to learn these things at a university then you need to pay for it yourself.

An educated populace knows why that's a load of selfish crap.

 

[Suave]

How about the plants that generate the electricity?

There's a nuclear power plant generating the electricity I use for charging my E,V,, which would not be impacted by a carbon tax I'd like imposed on those coal burning power plants.

 

[Truth in love]

It appears that Biden is expected to announce Wed Aug 24th, 2022 that $10,000 of student a loan will be forgiven for those who make less that $150,000 a year.
So basicaly Biden is saying that if you or your family paid off a student loan that they were stupid, that U.S. taxpayers have to pay for someone who signed a contract and if they meet the requirements will have part of what they agreed to pay forgiven.
Wonder how this boondoggle will affect inflation.
Joe Biden expected to announce $10,000 student loan forgiveness program Wednesday: report

While it will help me personally in the sort term this is going to create more inflation and the related problems in the long term. If he wanted to help students he would work to adjust the interest rate on the debt. That would provide some relief and not shift the burden onto tax payers. (It also really harms those who paid off their debts quickly vs those who did not.)

In the long term the Feds need to exit education

 

[Suave]

All those things can be learned in k-12 education or on your own. If you want to learn these things at a university then you need to pay for it yourself.

Advanced field studies are learned beyond high school in college which I'd like to be taxpayer funded in order to provide equitable learning opportunities inclusive of most anybody.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

So can every job skill in the world.

You just agreed that we do not need to pay for college education for people to be "educated".

An educated populace knows why that's a load of selfish crap.

I guess education to you means not knowing about personal responsibility, liberty, morality, equality or even financial fundamentals.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Selling your birthright for a bowl of stew, I see. You are an accomplice to malfeasance. I feel sorry for you.

What "birthright"?

I hope this poor attempt at rationalization gives you comfort. You are taking other people’s money for your own selfish ends. Don’t be deceived. You will answer for this somehow, someway, sometime.

Exodus 20:17

Your best is to now say I'll pay and rebuke me with a passage from the Tanahk? To a Gentile who rejects the entirety of it?
Surely you can do better.

Why should struggling Americans in the trades and who have no debt shoulder those who went into debt to major in some bull**** area with no practical application?

Some of us are using that to fill critical needs in society, like in the medical field. That's not a cheap field of study.
Why? Many if those tending to you at the doctors office or hospital are benefiting from this debt cancellation, especially those at the lower tiers of care who may even still be in school.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

Advanced field studies are learned beyond high school in college which I'd like to be taxpayer funded in order to provide equitable learning opportunities inclusive of most anybody.

You are not responding to what I was referring to. Advanced studies is different than what PureX listed.

Anyone can go to college. No matter what their financial status is.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

Did you really try to equate the bankrolling of indolent college students with unfortunate souls who lost everything due to natural disasters?

Yes.

You wrote, "Please give your rationalization “justification” for stealing taking money from complete strangers for your own selfish benefit." Both groups are taking money from complete strangers for their own benefit. You seem to object in only one of the two cases. I don't see a significant difference justifying that double standard.

I notice that neither you nor any of the other conservatives bemoaning government largess had much to say about forgiving the huge corporate loans made during the pandemic.
Nor any of the other examples I provided of the government benefitting a special interest at the taxpayers expense. This is what we consistently see from the right. Diverting public dollars to billionaires and corporations is a stimulus, but when money to ordinary people is the topic, THEN we hear about deficits and inflation.

Ask yourself why conservatives resent these people getting help with their loans while liberals tend to support it. The facts are the same for both: Yes, these students took out loans, and have a legal obligation to pay monthly for as long as they have a balance. Yes, loan forgiveness is at public expense. One personality type resents them being helped, the other supports it. These are fundamentally different kinds of people.

Here are some things on the Internet now that highlight and express rejection of that double standard:

 

[PureX]

You just agreed that we do not need to pay for college education for people to be "educated".

We don't NEED dentistry, either, but life is sure a lot better with it than without it for the vast majority of people.

I guess education to you means not knowing about personal responsibility, liberty, morality, equality or even financial fundamentals.

That's the lack of education. Which is why we need to make it available to all.