• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Do You Support Forgiving $10,000 Of Student Loan Debt?

Do you support Biden's plan to forgive $10,000 of student debt

  • Yes

    Votes: 25 61.0%
  • No

    Votes: 11 26.8%
  • Unsure

    Votes: 5 12.2%

  • Total voters
    41

Clizby Wampuscat

Well-Known Member
Me either. I have my own bills to pay.

Perhaps in recompense, we should send our utility and mortgage payments back in kind so they can return the favor by paying it off for us.
Why not. There is no difference between a student loan or a car loan. It is all debt agreed to because you want something you cannot pay for at the moment.
 

pearl

Well-Known Member
Too my surprise even paying student debt may be biblically motivated.

Jesus’ reference to debt forgiveness was not rote. It was a reference to a growing economic crisis in the Galilee of his day. That crisis involved very wealthy citizens loaning money to the young, poor and desperate, observed Martin Goodman, an Oxford historian on the political, social and religious history of the Jews in Roman Palestine. These loans were often impossible to repay, and so land was confiscated from the poor and transferred to the rich.

While college students are, understandably, enthusiastic about the prospects of massive debt relief, many conservatives are skeptical about the wisdom of forgiving the debts of countless college students, who presumably knew what they were getting themselves into when they applied for the loans—or so the logic goes. For these conservatives, forgiving student debt creates a “moral-hazard problem” that rewards poor financial decisions and provides incentives for the intemperate behaviors that created the crisis in the first place.

Betsy DeVos, the secretary of education, has dismissed out of hand any forgiveness of college debts. “We’ve heard shrill calls to cancel, to forgive, to make it all free,” said Ms. DeVos in a speech she gave at a Federal Student Aid Training Conference on Dec. 1. “Any innocuous label out there can’t obfuscate what it really is: Wrong.” In this view, forgiving student debt would be immoral.

Ms. DeVos is a Christian and has often spoken of her activism and policy goals in religious terms. She once claimed that her primary motivation in education reform is to “advance God’s kingdom.

But taking God’s kingdom seriously means more. It requires returning to the Scriptures.
Jesus’ reference to debt forgiveness was not rote. It was a reference to a growing economic crisis in the Galilee of his day. That crisis involved very wealthy citizens loaning money to the young, poor and desperate, observed Martin Goodman, an Oxford historian on the political, social and religious history of the Jews in Roman Palestine. These loans were often impossible to repay, and so land was confiscated from the poor and transferred to the rich.

Observant Jews in this period, however, were well aware that the Mosaic laws included something known as the Sabbatical laws—laws requiring, among other things, thatall debts be canceled once every seven years (Dt 15:1).
Enterprising wealthy lenders appealed to Rabbi Hillel during this time for a suspension of the laws. They claimed this was necessary to unfreeze credit, which would allow the poor access to the resources they need to survive bad harvests. Because debtors would be released from payment in a maximum of seven years, the moneylenders argued, as long as Sabbatical laws were in place there was no incentive to lend money. Persuaded by the argument, the rabbi suspended the Sabbatical laws in a proclamation known as the Prosbul.

Thus when Jesus declared that it was “year of the Lord’s favor” (Lk 4:19), which indicated it was time to release Jews from their debts, among other provisions, he naturally found a receptive audience among the debtors—and a less receptive audience among the city’s elite, some of whom ultimately arranged for his execution.

Along these lines, there is a passage from Luke, in which Jesus dines in the house of Simon, one of the Pharisees. Shortly after sitting down to eat, a beggar appears. She proceeds to weep, bathe Simon’s feet, dry them with her hair and anoint them with oil. The Pharisee, outraged by this disruption, calls her a “sinner” (Lk 7:39). But Jesus replies with a story:

A certain creditor had two debtors; one owed five thousand denarii, and the other fifty. When they could not pay, he canceled the debts for both of them. Now which of them will love him more? (Lk 7:40-41).

The question Jesus poses to Simon is almost rhetorical, but Simon acknowledges that the greatest love comes from the debtor who is forgiven the largest debt. This parable is especially important not only because it recalls the Sabbatical law of debt remittance, but because it also hints at the social benefits of following that law. It builds good will.

One may argue, as people did in those days, that remitting debts is bad for the credit industry. But its social benefits are significant. Not only does it reduce the radical inequalities between the poorest and wealthiest citizens; it also fosters a culture of forgiveness and love. Under such conditions, wealthier citizens no longer look to their neighbors as a source of their own potentially enhanced wealth, but rather as human beings deserving of love and forgiveness. Similarly, the poor no longer view the wealthy as oppressors, but rather as generous and loving fellow citizens.

Jesus’ insistence on adherence to the Mosaic laws is often forgotten; more likely, it is never really learned. Yet it may well prove to be especially pertinent for our political moment. Where many Christian conservatives have stressed the threat of moral hazard, they would do well to give equal, if not greater, consideration to the lessons stressed by Jesus.
The Biblical case for forgiving student loan debt | America Magazine
 

Suave

Simulated character
Paying off a loan that you took out is not a hardship. It is being a moral responsible person. Is it a hardship to take out loans for cars and homes? If you don't want the debt then don't take out the loans.

Then we can perhaps agree college tuition should be taxpayer funded eliminating the need for student loan debt,
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Ya know, we spend billions of dollars in government subsidies every single year, so is it really asking too much to spend a good-sized chunk of that on our young people to help them get an education? And I am not talking just about college as I do believe we should also be helping with those going to business schools, trade schools, etc.

After all, if it helps them, it also helps our country as well. So, are we going to invest in our future or just subsidize business? Hey, they also benefit by having an educated body of students to draw from.

So, ...?

Like granting universities and colleges more money in form of a taxpayer windfall?

Watch what happens to tuition costs now!
 

Clizby Wampuscat

Well-Known Member
That's not entirely true, but if it were, how would that be relevant?

"Out of the options available to this person when they were a young adult, they chose one that sucked but was still the best one available, therefore, they don't deserve our sympathy or support."
I never said this.

Getting loans are not the best option.

Here is a better path:

Work hard in high school and apply for as many scholarships as you can. Five or ten $1000 scholarships add up, it takes some work but there is a lot of free money out there for college.

Two years at a community college. They are a great value. I just paid $1040 for 15 credit hours for my daughter.

Work as you go and pay as you go. Many companies will help with tuition such as Discount Tires. You are better off spending 6 years getting a 4 year degree than taking loans to get a degree in 4 years at major college.
 

Suave

Simulated character
It's also illegal apparently.


The HEROES Act provides a legal basis and historical precedent allowing our POTUS to cancel student loan debt.

"Higher Education Relief Opportunities for Students Act of 2003 - Authorizes the Secretary of Education to waive or modify any requirement or regulation applicable to the student financial assistance programs under title IV of the Higher Education Act of 1965 as deemed necessary with respect to an affected individual who: (1) is serving on active duty during a war or other military operation or national emergency; (2) is performing qualifying National Guard duty during a war, operation, or emergency; (3) resides or is employed in an area that is declared a disaster area by any Federal, State, or local official in connection with a national emergency; or (4) suffered direct economic hardship as a direct result of a war or other military operation or national emergency."

H.R.1412 - 108th Congress (2003-2004): Higher Education Relief Opportunities for Students Act of 2003 | Congress.gov | Library of Congress

The national emergency in this case being the C,O,V,I,D.-19 pandemic justifies our P,O,T.U.S. cancelling student debt,
 
Last edited:

It Aint Necessarily So

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Taking public funds to benefit a special interest group is mean spirited and morally wrong. Shame on you for going along with it

Does this mean that you support withdrawing the special tax status for religions, a special interest group? And we'll want to those tax breaks given to special interests such as billionaires and mega-corporations back. And I'm sure that you objected to bailing out the banks, another special interest group. Or is it only money going to ordinary people that you view this way?

Your argument falls on deaf ears. The right has transformed government into a cashbox for itself on the backs of ordinary taxpayers, and is now lamenting any of that money going in any other direction. I celebrate ANY time public dollars are spent on helping ordinary people rather than being diverted to wealthy special interests. I'm not interested in any discussion of deficit spending with those not supportive of substantial tax hikes on the wealthy to return to something more like the middle of last century, when America enjoyed a healthy middle class.

Please give your rationalization “justification” for stealing taking money from complete strangers for your own selfish benefit.

Ask the people in Kentucky receiving FEMA benefits.
 

Shaul

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Too my surprise even paying student debt may be biblically motivated.

Jesus’ reference to debt forgiveness was not rote. It was a reference to a growing economic crisis in the Galilee of his day. That crisis involved very wealthy citizens loaning money to the young, poor and desperate, observed Martin Goodman, an Oxford historian on the political, social and religious history of the Jews in Roman Palestine. These loans were often impossible to repay, and so land was confiscated from the poor and transferred to the rich.

While college students are, understandably, enthusiastic about the prospects of massive debt relief, many conservatives are skeptical about the wisdom of forgiving the debts of countless college students, who presumably knew what they were getting themselves into when they applied for the loans—or so the logic goes. For these conservatives, forgiving student debt creates a “moral-hazard problem” that rewards poor financial decisions and provides incentives for the intemperate behaviors that created the crisis in the first place.

Betsy DeVos, the secretary of education, has dismissed out of hand any forgiveness of college debts. “We’ve heard shrill calls to cancel, to forgive, to make it all free,” said Ms. DeVos in a speech she gave at a Federal Student Aid Training Conference on Dec. 1. “Any innocuous label out there can’t obfuscate what it really is: Wrong.” In this view, forgiving student debt would be immoral.

Ms. DeVos is a Christian and has often spoken of her activism and policy goals in religious terms. She once claimed that her primary motivation in education reform is to “advance God’s kingdom.

But taking God’s kingdom seriously means more. It requires returning to the Scriptures.
Jesus’ reference to debt forgiveness was not rote. It was a reference to a growing economic crisis in the Galilee of his day. That crisis involved very wealthy citizens loaning money to the young, poor and desperate, observed Martin Goodman, an Oxford historian on the political, social and religious history of the Jews in Roman Palestine. These loans were often impossible to repay, and so land was confiscated from the poor and transferred to the rich.

Observant Jews in this period, however, were well aware that the Mosaic laws included something known as the Sabbatical laws—laws requiring, among other things, thatall debts be canceled once every seven years (Dt 15:1).
Enterprising wealthy lenders appealed to Rabbi Hillel during this time for a suspension of the laws. They claimed this was necessary to unfreeze credit, which would allow the poor access to the resources they need to survive bad harvests. Because debtors would be released from payment in a maximum of seven years, the moneylenders argued, as long as Sabbatical laws were in place there was no incentive to lend money. Persuaded by the argument, the rabbi suspended the Sabbatical laws in a proclamation known as the Prosbul.

Thus when Jesus declared that it was “year of the Lord’s favor” (Lk 4:19), which indicated it was time to release Jews from their debts, among other provisions, he naturally found a receptive audience among the debtors—and a less receptive audience among the city’s elite, some of whom ultimately arranged for his execution.

Along these lines, there is a passage from Luke, in which Jesus dines in the house of Simon, one of the Pharisees. Shortly after sitting down to eat, a beggar appears. She proceeds to weep, bathe Simon’s feet, dry them with her hair and anoint them with oil. The Pharisee, outraged by this disruption, calls her a “sinner” (Lk 7:39). But Jesus replies with a story:

A certain creditor had two debtors; one owed five thousand denarii, and the other fifty. When they could not pay, he canceled the debts for both of them. Now which of them will love him more? (Lk 7:40-41).

The question Jesus poses to Simon is almost rhetorical, but Simon acknowledges that the greatest love comes from the debtor who is forgiven the largest debt. This parable is especially important not only because it recalls the Sabbatical law of debt remittance, but because it also hints at the social benefits of following that law. It builds good will.

One may argue, as people did in those days, that remitting debts is bad for the credit industry. But its social benefits are significant. Not only does it reduce the radical inequalities between the poorest and wealthiest citizens; it also fosters a culture of forgiveness and love. Under such conditions, wealthier citizens no longer look to their neighbors as a source of their own potentially enhanced wealth, but rather as human beings deserving of love and forgiveness. Similarly, the poor no longer view the wealthy as oppressors, but rather as generous and loving fellow citizens.

Jesus’ insistence on adherence to the Mosaic laws is often forgotten; more likely, it is never really learned. Yet it may well prove to be especially pertinent for our political moment. Where many Christian conservatives have stressed the threat of moral hazard, they would do well to give equal, if not greater, consideration to the lessons stressed by Jesus.
The Biblical case for forgiving student loan debt | America Magazine
AFAIK Jesus never advocated take money from one servant to pay the debts of another servant. So this analogy is wrong. Beside I for one don’t consider the government my master or god.
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
The HEROES Act provides a legal basis and historical precedent allowing our POTUS to cancel student loan debt.

"Higher Education Relief Opportunities for Students Act of 2003 - Authorizes the Secretary of Education to waive or modify any requirement or regulation applicable to the student financial assistance programs under title IV of the Higher Education Act of 1965 as deemed necessary with respect to an affected individual who: (1) is serving on active duty during a war or other military operation or national emergency; (2) is performing qualifying National Guard duty during a war, operation, or emergency; (3) resides or is employed in an area that is declared a disaster area by any Federal, State, or local official in connection with a national emergency; or (4) suffered direct economic hardship as a direct result of a war or other military operation or national emergency."

H.R.1412 - 108th Congress (2003-2004): Higher Education Relief Opportunities for Students Act of 2003 | Congress.gov | Library of Congress

The national emergency in this case being the C,O,V,I,D.-19 pandemic justifies our P,O,T.U.S. cancelling student debt,
Makes me wonder why Pelosi said what she said.

Guess you do have to pass something to see what's in it.
 
Top