Do you tell children that Santa is real?

[freethinker44]

The is a difference between telling them a story and leading them to believe a story is true. I am not implying that a belief in santa will somehow harm a childs mental developement, it is just a personal thing for me where I don't want to knowingly lie to my children. So I'm not, but like I said earlier, my wife and I are at odds about it so she will lie and I will help them question it and look for truth.

Your argument is a straw man. There is more to the santa myth than a little white lie.

 

[EtuMalku]

Why would you indoctrinate your young child into your philosophical beliefs when they are neither of the age of understanding them, nor ready to have to understand them? Why would you tag their minds with thinking later "daddy told the truth, and mommy is a liar"? Does your wife share your atheist views? I hope she is not a religious person and this is some preconceived vendetta to prove her Beliefs are probably wrong?

**Strawman! egads, that pathetic Skeptics 101 word!!

 

[linwood]

Why would you indoctrinate your young child into your philosophical beliefs when they are neither of the age of understanding them, nor ready to have to understand them?

No way around it, a child will emulate that which he/she respects most.
The best you can do is mitigate the process.

Why would you tag their minds with thinking later "daddy told the truth, and mommy is a liar"?

Perhaps some people simply do not wish to lie to their children.
Lying to your children about reality weakens them.
Why purposely weaken your child?

As for "tagging" the child`s mind that "Mommy lied" that would be mommies fault for doing the lying.

Does your wife share your atheist views? I hope she is not a religious person and this is some preconceived vendetta to prove her Beliefs are probably wrong?

Why would it matter?
Does the atheist not have the same right to teach his/her child their views?

**Strawman! egads, that pathetic Skeptics 101 word!!

I`ve never met a pathetic skeptic.

 

[blackout]

My kids and I make up our own myths all year round.

I'm not fond of either literalism or 'mass' my'thologies.

I think both miss the mark.
(as mythology is concerned)

 

[Penumbra]

I don't have kids, but I wouldn't tell them that Santa is real. I'm not going to tell the children of other people that Santa isn't real, though.

 

[EtuMalku]

No way around it, a child will emulate that which he/she respects most.
The best you can do is mitigate the process.

We're talking about a child here 0-9-ish . . . not a little Rimbaud!

Perhaps some people simply do not wish to lie to their children.
Lying to your children about reality weakens them.
Why purposely weaken your child?

I don't think you read the thread. This is about parenting & psychology. Do not collect $200, go back a posts.

As for "tagging" the child`s mind that "Mommy lied" that would be mommies fault for doing the lying.

See above

Why would it matter?
Does the atheist not have the same right to teach his/her child their views?

Atheists certainly do have the right. When it is appropriate though, not when they are children, indoctrination of any sort at this point in their lives is unfair to them.

I`ve never met a pathetic skeptic.

Is there any other kind? :slap:

 

[blackout]

I've actually known 12 and 13 year olds
who had not yet reasoned that Santa was a non-literal character.
:areyoucra

And, of course, their parents were still UPHOLDING the myth,
with vigilance.

For WHO, I wonder.

This melts my mind.

 

[EtuMalku]

I've actually known 12 and 13 year olds
who had not yet reasoned that Santa was a non-literal character.
:areyoucra

And, of course, their parents were still UPHOLDING the myth,
with vigilance.

For WHO, I wonder.

This melts my mind.

Deluding a child as (s)he grows older is simply a matter of parental Ego and not putting the child's psychological growth first, but rather their desire to sustain this infant stage.

 

[Katzpur]

There has been a lot of discussion on whether telling a child that Santa is real is a horrible thing to do and you shouldn't lie to your children. I know a lot of Christians don't want their children believing in Santa, but I see no problem with it. I believed in him and it did me no harm, I didn't find out the truth and wonder why my parents lied to me - I see it as a magical part of Christmas and being a child, but it doesn't have to take over the true meaning of Christmas. I know churches who include Santa, but also explain it isn't about wanting everything for yourself.

What do you guys tell your children?

My kids are grown now (31 and 28) and we did the whole Santa Claus thing. Now that all is said and done, I wish we hadn't. I wish we had told them the truth from the beginning, not for the reason you have suggested, but because it would have just been a whole lot easier. My kids thought there was absolutely nothing that was beyond Santa's ability to to, and if they wanted a particular toy, there was nothing to stop Santa from providing it. Explanations like, "There are only so many Battle Cats in the world, honey, and Santa doesn't have enough of them for every little boy in the world who wants one," didn't work with them. If we couldn't find a particular toy, couldn't afford it or didn't feel it was a good choice of toy, there was nothing we could do to prepare our kids for the possibility of disappointment on Christmas morning. I wish we had presented Santa as a fun, make-believe character and told them how the legend began and let them know from the first that it was mom and dad who gave them the toys. I also wish we had focused more on the reason we celebrate Christmas in the first place. Oh well, so much for hindsight.

 

[linwood]

We're talking about a child here 0-9-ish . . . not a little Rimbaud!

Yes, I know.
I`ve raised three of them.
Do you have a point?

I don't think you read the thread. This is about parenting & psychology. Do not collect $200, go back a posts.

See above

Oh trust me, I`ve read this thread.
I`ve read it well enough to know you`re in over your head.

Care to actually reply to my point?
In your own words for a change perhaps.

Why is it wrong for a child to believe a parent who lies to them is a liar?

Atheists certainly do have the right. When it is appropriate though, not when they are children, indoctrination of any sort at this point in their lives is unfair to them.

It`s obvious to me you have limited if any experience with children.

Indoctrination of a child is a matter of course as a child will emulate that which he/she respects regardless of intention.
The only way to make this "fair" is to give the child the tools to work their way out of any indoctrination (even unintended) when the are old enough to evaluate their beliefs for themselves.
A healthy dose of skepticism and critical thinking skills are usually more than enough to insure this.

Is there any other kind? :slap:

Most definately.

 

[Nerthus]

I don't have kids, but I wouldn't tell them that Santa is real. I'm not going to tell the children of other people that Santa isn't real, though.

But if one child knows it isn't true, what is stopping them going into school and telling all the other children?

Either that, or the child may believe that everyone else has been told the truth.

I also wish we had focused more on the reason we celebrate Christmas in the first place. Oh well, so much for hindsight.

I think this can be done even if children are told Santa is real. I said before that I believed in him but still knew the reason for Christmas. We were always told that Santa is a good, selfless person bringing gifts for children - but as there are so many children in the world, we should only ask for a couple. I don't see what is bad about that.

My belief in Santa never weakened me.

 

[zenzero]

Friend Nerthus,

Do you tell children that Santa is real?

Though personally have no children rgds Santa its so much fun for children that they should be allowed to enjoy till they wish to as like everyone they too will learn when their time comes.

Love & rgds

 

[blackout]

My kids are grown now (31 and 28) and we did the whole Santa Claus thing. Now that all is said and done, I wish we hadn't. I wish we had told them the truth from the beginning, not for the reason you have suggested, but because it would have just been a whole lot easier. My kids thought there was absolutely nothing that was beyond Santa's ability to to, and if they wanted a particular toy, there was nothing to stop Santa from providing it. Explanations like, "There are only so many Battle Cats in the world, honey, and Santa doesn't have enough of them for every little boy in the world who wants one," didn't work with them. If we couldn't find a particular toy, couldn't afford it or didn't feel it was a good choice of toy, there was nothing we could do to prepare our kids for the possibility of disappointment on Christmas morning. I wish we had presented Santa as a fun, make-believe character and told them how the legend began and let them know from the first that it was mom and dad who gave them the toys. I also wish we had focused more on the reason we celebrate Christmas in the first place. Oh well, so much for hindsight.

EDIT: my previous post was very personal
and did not seem to be valued for discussion,
so I deleted it.

In short,
in light of today's expectations,
it really is not a fun thing
to try to uphold the Santa Myth
when you have no money for presents.

If all the myth serves to do
is cause saddness, dissapointment,
stress, frustration
(for both child and parent)
due to economic inability
"to pull it off"
I really fail to see what the point of it all is.

So much easier for everyone
to just be honest and real.


After thought: It's also much nicer IMO
to know that Real People
are providing you with things
to make you happy,
just because they want to,
whether it's someone you know
or someone you don't.

 

[Penumbra]

But if one child knows it isn't true, what is stopping them going into school and telling all the other children?

Nothing. If I had a child, I would not tell her lies just so that she won't spoil the lies for other children. Do you think every child believes in Santa anyway, especially in multi-cultural schools?

Either that, or the child may believe that everyone else has been told the truth.

If she independently comes to the conclusion that Santa is real, then so be it. Although if she tries to investigate it and asks me questions, I'll tell her the truth that her presents are coming from me and not from Santa.

 

[SageTree]

Watched "Elf" last night. I think as an allegory the hope that Santa brings to live is 'real'.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I don't have kids, but I wouldn't tell them that Santa is real. I'm not going to tell the children of other people that Santa isn't real, though.

That's pretty much my position as well.

I kinda like how my parents did it: they didn't push the Santa thing too much on me, but I picked it up from everything around me. Presents would "magically" be in the living room on Christmas morning, but my parents never actually lied to me. They didn't correct my false beliefs, but they didn't tell me anything false themselves.



On the radio this morning, they interviewed an author of a quasi-apologetics book for Santa aimed at kids who were of the age where they're starting to question it, where he goes into detail about how belief in Santa is supposedly reasonable. That kinda stuff drives me nuts.

 

[Penumbra]

That's pretty much my position as well.

I kinda like how my parents did it: they didn't push the Santa thing too much on me, but I picked it up from everything around me. Presents would "magically" be in the living room on Christmas morning, but my parents never actually lied to me. They didn't correct my false beliefs, but they didn't tell me anything false themselves.

On the radio this morning, they interviewed an author of a quasi-apologetics book for Santa aimed at kids who were of the age where they're starting to question it, where he goes into detail about how belief in Santa is supposedly reasonable. That kinda stuff drives me nuts.

My parents went out of their way to ensure that I believed in Santa, including trying to explain to me why his North Pole manufacturing and distribution system could not be found, how he could go to so many houses in one night, how he acquires the name-brand toys, etc. There was one night where I purposely awoke to "catch" him and I was physically blocked and led back to bed by a parent because she was in the process of putting the presents under the tree and didn't want me to see. Eventually when I was old enough I found out it was untrue.

It's a pretty benign lie, but I see it as unnecessary. I don't see the need to support the myth that a commercialized version of a 4th century Catholic saint is sneaking in to a house to put presents under a tree.

 

[EtuMalku]

Parents have not only the right, but the obligation, to teach their children the things they believe to be true. You have both the right and the obligation to be honest with your children about what you believe and so do I.

IMO children and adolescents should not be indoctrinated into any system beyond rational comprehension, philosophy, faiths or superstitions of conventional religions.

Youth is a time for rational training and education, by which as adults, they then have a sound and meaningful basis to 'choose' a philosophy or Belief system that is most meaningful to Them (not You).

This is the Gift of Free Will in the Light of Parenting.

 

[EtuMalku]

It`s obvious to me you have limited if any experience with children.

And you would be wrong, again.

The only way to make this "fair" is to give the child the tools to work their way out of any indoctrination (even unintended) when the are old enough to evaluate their beliefs for themselves.

I think we have all seen the damage that can occur from brainwashing a child with religion and superstition. Give them the TOOLS to work their way out of the mess that YOU created for them? Gee thanks dad!

Wouldn't it be better to have never made the mess in the first place?

 

[EtuMalku]

Watched "Elf" last night. I think as an allegory the hope that Santa brings to live is 'real'.

Finally a voice of Reason :cold: