Do you think I should?

[Aupmanyav]

Absolutely wrong.

Do you mean to say that the mystical sects of Islam are just as violent as the others?

 

[firedragon]

I'd like to personally thank the both of you. I learned so much from this exchange.

Hey hey. You dont have to be that sarcastic. Its embarrassing.

You are right. It was just rhetoric. Like the beer baron exchange from the balcony. Nevertheless what you should know is that one guess work will need a lot of historical information to be corrected. It would require another thread of its own. I can show the irony from this OP itself. But then it becomes a derailment. If you want, no worries.

 

[firedragon]

Do you mean to say that the mystical sects of Islam are just as violent as the others?

Nope. I think you have particular dream you want everyone else to sync in with.

 

[firedragon]

Depends on what kind of spectacles one is wearing.

Maybe it is you who is wearing a specific type of spectacles you see on others.

 

[Sand Dancer]

Are you in the belief that because I chose to convert to Sufi islam i should become a hater, rapist, woman hater, sexist, liar, criminal, murderer?

This is the feeling i get from a very few people, that because I personally chose to become a Muslim I would automatically become a Taliban who hate everything except them selves and their ego?

That is not the islam i see. That is not the purpose of the teaching.

Isnt it the people who do those horrible things to others that is the issue? Those who use the verses made during time of war to justify their own evil deeds?

Mostly all muslims are peace loving people who want the best for others.

Why let the few who are not, destroy the many who want you happiness and love?

May it be that it takes time and effort daily to understand the teaching, but those who do not study can only see the words, but not the truth?

Some rigid, black and white thinkers don't like to see the good in other religions, because they want to pretend theirs is the only good and true one. They fear that people might like other religions.

 

[Sand Dancer]

Christianity had issues with violence before the Evangelicals, such as <points to a history book>.

So why don't people feel the same way about someone converting to Christianity?

Also, all religions appear to have a problem with violence because humans are human. The biggest problem is when religion gets mixed up with politics.

That doesn't justify humans being violent or the atrocities that due occur from religion. But fair is fair: if you are going to chastise a person for joining a group that has other members committing violence in the name of that religion, be aware that the same may also be true for other religions, political ideals, sports, ethical stances, and just about anything else humans get all flag-bearing about.

Muslim countries tend not to believe in separation of church and state like the US does, so the extremists in the US don't tend to do more than vote in draconian laws, treat people they don't like badly, and tip with Chick tracts at Denny's on Sunday.

 

[Fool]

Are you in the belief that because I chose to convert to Sufi islam i should become a hater, rapist, woman hater, sexist, liar, criminal, murderer?

This is the feeling i get from a very few people, that because I personally chose to become a Muslim I would automatically become a Taliban who hate everything except them selves and their ego?

That is not the islam i see. That is not the purpose of the teaching.

Isnt it the people who do those horrible things to others that is the issue? Those who use the verses made during time of war to justify their own evil deeds?

Mostly all muslims are peace loving people who want the best for others.

Why let the few who are not, destroy the many who want you happiness and love?

May it be that it takes time and effort daily to understand the teaching, but those who do not study can only see the words, but not the truth?

so I see a huge problem with most of your threads. you're focused on yourself, the beast, the personality, the ego and not on what simply works for everyone. you want the union sufi's seek and some will never find. you didn't find it in christianity so you abandoned ship and tried buddhism. you didn't find it in buddhism and if i'm not mistaken, correct me if I am, you met a moslem woman and converted to islam. Now you're a sufi. You've wore many masks but you don't even recognize the spirit behind the masks.


but the union requires two to become one. you're focusing on yourself trying to become something else. this image of becoming sufi. the image of being buddhist. another image of this vs that.


jacob found god when he turned in. jesus said the kingdom of god comes from within. the psalsm says be still(silent) and know I AM exalted in the earth, the body. glorify god in your body.


you keep changing your clothes, your outward appearance, in this case your religion. it isn't the clothes that make the man.

 

[stvdv]

It is definitely horrible, but I do not think it can be corrected. Blast in Kunduz, at least 50 dead, 90 injured. It was a Shia mosque in a Sunni majority country.
90% Sunni, 7% Shia. So Shias have no right to exist there.

Incredible, that people kill other "just over difference of opinions" in the year 2020 eve, if it were the "year of Barbarian kingdom" I could understand. Humanism totally lost or never found

 

[Fool]

Sufism is actually a liberal version of Islam like the Ahmediyas which denounce violent jihad and promotes scholarship and nonviolence.

But both these sects are under attack and persecution by Islamic extremists who consider them unislamic.

sufiism was probably derived from the whirling dervishes; which were probably originally persian.

what is old is new again and in some other form


tmoslem's took a lot of knowledge from their conquests. its usually the less enlightened, nomadic, learning from the more agrarian cultures, or cultivated cultures.


kinda like the jesus guy said, some take heaven by violence


Dance of the Soul - Farima Dance

 

[RestlessSoul]

The problem all religions, and all secular ideologies have, is that their adherents are invariably human.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

Absolutely wrong.

I could be.

 

[Spirit of Light]

I agree, it must be very frustrating for you. All you can do, unless you want to get politically involved, is to show an example to those around you and let them see the other side to islam.

But in the end, muslims need to do more to combat the negative image that the Wahhabi-style extremists convey to the world by their violence and intolerance. I have read that in Britain one of the problems is that the imams at the mosques tend to be first generation immigrants, sometimes with little English, and liable to be alienated from the society around them. They quite often preach a message of rejection. Since they are the chief influencers in their community, this does not promote integration or tolerance. In this situation, even more moderate muslims who disagree will feel inhibited. In Britain, things have seemed to be going backwards in recent years. More muslim men grow long beards and more muslim women are under pressure to wear headscarves, black clothing and even burqas. All these things telegraph their (chosen) status as disapproving outsiders.

We need a movement for reformed mosques, in my opinion, that can preach a message of tolerance and integration and are prepared to see the good in the societies in which they live.

Thank you @exchemist There has to be a form of calming down in the Muslim world yes

 

[Spirit of Light]

The problem all religions, and all secular ideologies have, is that their adherents are invariably human.

That is probably true

 

[Spirit of Light]

Depends on what kind of spectacles one is wearing.
I have my doubts about that.No one else hates Sufis but most Muslims. Sufism is sugar-coated Islam. Allah still is One and Mohammad is still the last messenger.

I understand your view, A Sufi does not try to sugarcoat the problems But focusing on the good and change the bad

 

[Spirit of Light]

so I see a huge problem with most of your threads. you're focused on yourself, the beast, the personality, the ego and not on what simply works for everyone. you want the union sufi's seek and some will never find. you didn't find it in christianity so you abandoned ship and tried buddhism. you didn't find it in buddhism and if i'm not mistaken, correct me if I am, you met a moslem woman and converted to islam. Now you're a sufi. You've wore many masks but you don't even recognize the spirit behind the masks.


but the union requires two to become one. you're focusing on yourself trying to become something else. this image of becoming sufi. the image of being buddhist. another image of this vs that.


jacob found god when he turned in. jesus said the kingdom of god comes from within. the psalsm says be still(silent) and know I AM exalted in the earth, the body. glorify god in your body.


you keep changing your clothes, your outward appearance, in this case your religion. it isn't the clothes that make the man.

This thread did, unfortunately, become an outburst of frustration from me, that is true. The change that happens within me sees the outer world in a different light, I commented on the question, why the critique has to become so personal when only a "few" are the ones who do evil.

 

[Fool]

This thread did, unfortunately, become an outburst of frustration from me, that is true. The change that happens within me sees the outer world in a different light, I commented on the question, why the critique has to become so personal when only a "few" are the ones who do evil.

unfortunately the few seem to get the limelight vs those who do the work.

also, we don't really have control over others and should never judge anyone on anything but their actions. doesn't matter what we wear, it won't cover up the obvious.

best wishes in your journey

 

[Spirit of Light]

One thing is brother, you know nothing about the Taliban.

Anyway I think some ignorant bigots have kind of set you off. Most of them are just bigots anyway so they look for what can help them with their racism and bigotry. This is there in all communities, but due to the industry built upon hating islam, the information these people receive is all assistance to further their agenda. Lol. Just a day or two ago, two islam hating individuals were pretending to arabic experts. They will even pretend to be like that just to spread a little more hatred.

The problem is their epistemology. The few atheists who act like that study islam from Anti Islamic, Christian websites with no scholarship. I can give names but I won't. I mean of these websites and sources. But they dont know about other Christian scholars who have studied Islam to such a deep level that even Muslim scholars value them above other Muslim scholars. There are atheists who have become Islamic scholars. Or at least in the history of Islam, the Arabic language, the Quran, palaeography, arabic philology, manuscript criticism, etc etc etc. So an atheist, Christian or anyone else should look for scholarship from sources like that.

When their sources are so poor as some website, and some even "pretend" to be experts in the language when it seems like basic ABC's lacking, this is what you should expect. Don't get affected. Be yourself. Consider this a good opportunity to understand and analyse all the fallacies people are capable of doing. Write a book.

Peace.

Again I finding my self not disagreeing with you
I do not know enough about Taliban, but i used them as an example since they are in my view not true Muslims, in my belief and faith a Muslim should never harm others. But i know the scripture has a part where it seems it say Go ahead do evil. But that to me is not so.

You are a lot more skilled in the scriptures, you know different languages and different scholars who have translated the Islamic teachings, and all of this i do not know much about. So I learn many things from you.

I believe my weakest point is that i dislike when someone hate just to hate.

 

[Spirit of Light]

unfortunately the few seem to get the limelight vs those who do the work.

also, we don't really have control over others and should never judge anyone on anything but their actions. doesn't matter what we wear, it won't cover up the obvious.

best wishes in your journey

It may show that there is more to work on for me as a Muslim and as a man who wants peace in this world, I might have created disturbances myself.

 

[Link]

Salam

Concsious thoughts. Some kind of gift to God aside from spiritual battle to see him and believe in him in form of striving in his way (Jihad) is an obligation. This doesn't mean you a join an army or support one, but it does not mean you don't either. You have to assess political ground and participate.

This is the sermon of Imam Hussain (a):

O people, take lessons from the matters that God has cited as warnings for His disciples when he dispraised the rabbis in His saying:

Why did the men of God and rabbis not forbid them from following their sinful words and their consuming of unlawful gains? [159]

The unbelievers among the Israelites, because of their disobedience and transgression, were condemned by David and Jesus, the son of Mary, for their disobedience; they were transgressors. They did not prevent each other from committing sins nor would they themselves stay away from them. Evil was what they had done! [160]

God dishonored them because they did not forbid the wrongdoers from doing evil and committing sins while they were among them, for they had desired for gaining more gifts from the wrongdoers and they had feared them. God says:

Do not be afraid of people but have fear of Me. [161]

The believers, both male and female, are each other's guardians. They try to make others do good and prevent them from committing sins. [162]

God has begun with enjoining good and forbidding evil because He has known that if these two matters are carried out thoroughly, all the other obligatory duties, including the easy and the difficult, will be carried out thoroughly. This is because enjoining good and forbidding evil is advocacy to Islam, restoration of the grievances, opposition of the wrongdoer, (just) allotment of the booty and the spoils, and taking the alms to put them in their proper places.
You are the company that are famous for knowledge, mentioned in goodness, renowned with advice, and respected by people through God. The masters stand in awe of you, the weak honor you, and those whom you have not done favors and who do not need you prefer you to others. You intercede for settling people’s needs when they are deprived. You walk in the ways with gravity of kings and dignity of celebrities. You have attained all these just because you are expected to fulfill the rights of God; yet, you omitted most of His rights when you disregarded the rights of the Imams, threw away the rights of the weak, and sought only your claimed rights. You have not spent any wealth, risked your souls for their Creator, or opposed your clan for sake of God. You are looking forward to gaining Paradise, the neighborhood of God’s apostles, and the salvation from His punishment. I anticipate you, who hope God, will suffer a form of God’s retribution because you, through the favors of God, have attained such a rank by which you are preferred to other. You are respected among people by means of God. However, you notice that the traditions of God are omitted, but you do not move for it, while you may move when any of your fathers’ traditions is violated. The traditions of the Prophet (peace be upon him and his family) are broken. The blind, the deaf, and the chronically ill are left without help in the cities. You neither behave mercifully nor do you use your positions. You do not aid those who assume such deeds and you achieve your safety from the wrongdoers (or the unjust rulers) by means of flattery and cajolery. God has warned you against all these conducts but you are negligent while you will be responsible more than the others because you enjoy the positions of scholars. Had you only felt of so! Moreover, the courses of affairs and rulings are under the control of the scholars who are the keepers of the legal and the illegal affairs of God. This standing is surely seized from you just because you have gone in different direction away from the right and disagreed about the Sunna after the clear exposition of the evidences. If you tolerated the harm and bore the burdens for God’s sake, all the affairs of God would arrive at your hands, emanate from you, and devolve upon you. But you have made the unjust rulers occupy your positions and handed over the affairs of God to them. They are acting suspiciously and pursuing their passions. Your escape from death and adherence to this life, which will sooner or later leave you, gave them a free hand on doing so. Thus, you forsook the weak ones some of whom were enslaved compulsorily and others were suffering under the control of the straits of livelihood. The unjust rulers therefore are rolling in royalty with their own opinions and disgracing others by their own passions as they follow the examples of the evil and dare the All-omnipotent (God). In every country, they are assigning an eloquent orator on the pulpits of God. Lands are vacant for them as their hands are prevailing everything and people are taken as their slaves because they lack the power to defend themselves. They are either a transgressing tyrant or a domineering, coarse to the weak, and obeyed who does not acknowledge the Initiator the Recreator. How strange this is! I should astonish at such affairs when the lands are prevailed by tyrannical cheaters, wrongful bribers, or unmerciful governors. God is the judge in our question of disputation and His judgment will pass over our controversy.

O Allah, You know that it was not a matter of conflict for power or request of the worldly wreckage (that made me say so), but it was just for showing the signs of Your religion and spreading betterment on Your lands so that the wronged servants will be secured and Your ordinances, traditions, and laws will be acted.

Because you had not supported or treated us fairly, the wrongdoers overcame you and wrought towards extinguishing the illumination of your Prophet (peace be upon him and his family). God is sufficient protector for us. Upon Him we depend, to Him we refer, and to Him will be our return.[163]

 

[firedragon]

I believe my weakest point is that i dislike when someone hate just to hate.

Well. I hate you for being such a good guy Just kidding brother.

Muslim or alien, you will have good people surrounding you. Peace.