Do you think Islam as a religion has a thing to do with having many Muslims contributed in science?

[Smart_Guy]

What do you guys think?

Do you think Islam as a religion has a thing to do with having many Muslims contributed in science?

And can we relate to it that Muslims, compared to other religious people, had so many known scientists to the whole world?

I'll leave this here as a reference:
List of Muslim scientists - Wikipedia

I'm not personally debating anything here. I have it here so other members could debate if they want.

Some verses of the Quran that could be related to this:
(20:14) :- "and say, 'My Lord, increase me in knowledge.'"
(58:11) :- "Allah will raise those who have believed among you and those who were given knowledge, by degrees. And Allah is Acquainted with what you do."
(3:190) :- "Who remember God while standing or sitting or [lying] on their sides and give thought to the creation of the heavens and the earth, [saying], "Our Lord, You did not create this aimlessly"
(39:9) :- "Are those who have knowledge equal to those who do not? Only they will remember are the people of understanding".
(35:27) :- "Among those who fear God are His servants who have knowledge."

 

[YmirGF]

What do you guys think?

Do you think Islam as a religion has a thing to do with having many Muslims contributed in science?

And can we relate to it that Muslims, compared to other religious people, had so many known scientists to the whole world?

When are you referring to @Smart_Guy . now or well over 500 years ago?

First, it is a bit rich to describe many of these folks as scientists. Most were more philosophers who dabbled in a wide array of less than scientific endeavors. Most were also religious "scholars" or Imams who had rather fine minds that looked at the world more clearly than their fellow Muslims and came up with some rather interesting things. The fact that they had fine minds is not because of Islam. That they used those fine minds is not because of Islam. That they discovered so little considering the wealth of information they had collected from other cultures is likely due to Islam and its inherent disdain of innovation.

 

[Smart_Guy]

Thru all the history of Islam.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

It would say partly, yes, as even a number of Christian scientists believed that to know the physical/material world and learn about it was to learn about and glorify god, but, at the same time, the Muslims in your list frequently hailed from cultures that thought very highly of the Greeks, who themselves advanced philosophy, medicine, and mathematics.

 

[YmirGF]

I'm not personally debating anything here. I have it here so other members could debate if they want.

Instead of mooning over former glories it might be much more rewarding to inquire what happened to science in Islam. Though there are currently a small collection of notable scientists who are Muslims, Muslim contribution to virtually all sciences has been pretty quiet for 500 years... Why? If there was such a deep respect for inquiry, what happened?

 

[Smart_Guy]

Good points, guys!

Waiting for more comments...

 

[George-ananda]

My thought is that early Islamic scholars and scientists were at the top of the world game but not so much at all in recent times. I thought Islam was a good thing for its intended timeframe and culture but Muslims need to move on and modernize their thinking. They have intellectually lost ground continually for the last 1,000 years and are kind of backwards thinking today.

 

[LuisDantas]

Before answering the OP, the question must be asked of what we would presume to exist as an alternative to Islaamic communities.

This may be helpful to attain a general awareness of Muslim history with the sciences.

List of Muslim scientists - Wikipedia

Timeline of science and engineering in the Islamic world - Wikipedia

At first glance, most of the Muslim World's contributions to science seem to gravitate around the fields of Astronomy, Mathematics, and Medicine. They also seem to have sharply declined even as the number of Muslims increased so impressively in the last few centuries. The days of the renowned House of Wisdom in Bagdhad seem to be long past and do not seem likely to return in the foreseeable future.

See for instance how mediocre a knowledge of basic science is betrayed in Gaddafi's Green Book, which was reverenced for decades in Lybia until very recently. Or how, other than the USA, the Muslim world is at present not too far from being the last stronghold of denial of biological evolution, which should say a lot in and of itself. Most of all, it strongly hints that science education among Muslims leaves a lot to be desired.

In centuries past it was considerably easier to be a "rogue talent" in science. These days it is a very big advantage to have a settled structure of teaching, research and discussion. Apparently a combination of social and economic realities and the insistence on measuring everything by the Qur'an have hurt the ability of Muslim communities in building and keeping those structures very badly.

So until some evidence to the contrary presents itself, I would have to assume that Islaam is very detrimental to the pursuit of scientific knowledge.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

They have intellectually lost ground continually for the last 1,000 years and are kind of backwards thinking today.

1,000 years ago they were ahead of "Christian Europe" who was busy burning heretics, condemning questions, terrified of birth marks, and butchering each other. The Ottomans even allowed for more religious freedom and tolerance than any Christian kingdom did.

 

[MD]

1,000 years ago they were ahead of "Christian Europe" who was busy burning heretics, condemning questions, terrified of birth marks, and butchering each other. The Ottomans even allowed for more religious freedom and tolerance than any Christian kingdom did.

Wtf the Ottomans conducted several genocides against Christian minorities, you sometimes just say anything.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

Before answering the OP, the question must be asked of what we would presume to exist as an alternative to Islaamic communities.

This may be helpful to attain a general awareness of Muslim history with the sciences.

List of Muslim scientists - Wikipedia

Timeline of science and engineering in the Islamic world - Wikipedia

At first glance, most of the Muslim World's contributions to science seem to gravitate around the fields of Astronomy, Mathematics, and Medicine. They also seem to have sharply declined even as the number of Muslims increased so impressively in the last few centuries. The days of the renowned House of Wisdom in Bagdhad seem to be long past and do not seem likely to return in the foreseeable future.

See for instance how mediocre a knowledge of basic science is betrayed in Gaddafi's Green Book, which was reverenced for decades in Lybia until very recently. Or how, other than the USA, the Muslim world is at present not too far from being the last stronghold of denial of biological evolution, which should say a lot in and of itself. Most of all, it strongly hints that science education among Muslims leaves a lot to be desired.

In centuries past it was considerably easier to be a "rogue talent" in science. These days it is a very big advantage to have a settled structure of teaching, research and discussion. Apparently a combination of social and economic realities and the insistence on measuring everything by the Qur'an have hurt the ability of Muslim communities in building and keeping those structures very badly.

So until some evidence to the contrary presents itself, I would have to assume that Islaam is very detrimental to the pursuit of scientific knowledge.

It seems like Islamic contributions to science took off after the Islamic Empire conquered Sassanid Persia as well as Byzantine Alexandria - both realms of knowledge & education - and have since declined. It wouldn't surprise me if the majority of early Muslim scientists were of Persian descent rather than Arab descent. What was it one Arab historian said of the conquered Persians? Something like "We (Arabs) have been governing them (Persians) for a century and cannot do without them for a day. They have been ruling empires for centuries and have never needed us for a minute."

 

[sovietchild]

Yes it's like a rocket. There is about 3 stages of a rocket. One thats pushes you off the ground, after separation the 2nd part pushes you dipper into space, and after another separation satellite pushes it self farther.

This is a cartoonish version, explaining how rocket stages work.

 

[Jumi]

Most of Europe was a backwater of strict religious interpretation during the Islamic Golden Age. After that, stricter religious interpretations pushed Islamic countries back. I remember reading about Islamic scientists and remember that one of them liked to drink wine before going to bed, an impossibility today? Today Islamic countries contribution to science is very small, according to Pakistani Nuclear physicist Pervez Hoodbhoy it was around 1% ten years ago.

It's not unusual that this happens. Almost the same thing happened with China when they embraced excess traditionalism. They were so much ahead of others they were in contact with, morally and scientifically that they got lazy and everyone went past them. Now they are coming back full speed after they gave more freedom to their population. Europe had also abandoned it's scientific legacy after the fall of Rome. It seems that now Europe is going the same way, at least here in Finland we are slowing down in education, science and freedom, perhaps China or the Americas will pick the torch of humanity for all of us. We can only hope.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Wtf the Ottomans conducted several genocides against Christian minorities, you sometimes just say anything.

I'm not just saying anything. I don't remember the exact term for it ("people of the Book"), but indeed Christians and Jews were allowed to practice their religion under Ottoman rule. They even allowed Millets of Christians and Jews to have judiciary discretion over their own. That alone was way ahead of what Europe was doing.

 

[GoodbyeDave]

It seems like Islamic contributions to science took off after the Islamic Empire conquered Sassanid Persia as well as Byzantine Alexandria - both realms of knowledge & education - and have since declined. It wouldn't surprise me if the majority of early Muslim scientists were of Persian descent rather than Arab descent.

The were indeed. For example the greatest scientist in the Middle Ages was Muhammad Al Biruni, an Iranian. Many weren't Muslims, either: Costa ben Luca was a Syrian Christian, Messahala an Iranian Jew, Thebit a Syrian Pagan, and so on.

 

[David1967]

What do you guys think?

Do you think Islam as a religion has a thing to do with having many Muslims contributed in science?

And can we relate to it that Muslims, compared to other religious people, had so many known scientists to the whole world?

I'll leave this here as a reference:
List of Muslim scientists - Wikipedia

I'm not personally debating anything here. I have it here so other members could debate if they want.

I think that as far as practitioners of religion in general over the centuries, they all have their peaks and valleys concerning science. It is noted that Muslim people have made valuable contributions to science as have Christian people and others. But just to put the religion verses science thing in perspective, remember that just afew hundred years ago it was very risky in Catholic lands to declare that the earth wasn't flat or the center of the universe. Our holy books are generally not science books although they touch on it albeit primitively. I believe that scientific subjects should be investigated by physical evidence and not reliant on a spiritual book for approval whether the Koran, the Bible etc.

 

[Augustus]

It wouldn't surprise me if the majority of early Muslim scientists were of Persian descent rather than Arab descent.

It's true, but perhaps worth noting that most people in the Muslim empire were not of Arab descent, they just became culturally Arab over time.

Why? If there was such a deep respect for inquiry, what happened?

Scientific progress has typically been tied to wealth of society.

Instead of comparing Islamic societies to the 'market leaders', an interesting comparison would be Islamic societies versus non-Islamic societies of similar wealth.

 

[MD]

I'm not just saying anything. I don't remember the exact term for it ("people of the Book"), but indeed Christians and Jews were allowed to practice their religion under Ottoman rule. They even allowed Millets of Christians and Jews to have judiciary discretion over their own. That alone was way ahead of what Europe was doing.

Assyrian genocide - Wikipedia
Armenian Genocide - Wikipedia
Greek genocide - Wikipedia
Great Famine of Mount Lebanon - Wikipedia

Liberal logic: Millions killed by Ottomans = pluralistic, great society

 

[MD]

Scientific progress has typically been tied to wealth of society.

Instead of comparing Islamic societies to the 'market leaders', an interesting comparison would be Islamic societies versus non-Islamic societies of similar wealth.

I disagree, it's more than just wealth. The Gulf states are insanely rich and **** poor when it comes to science or education in general.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Assyrian genocide - Wikipedia
Armenian Genocide - Wikipedia
Greek genocide - Wikipedia

Liberal logic: Millions killed by Ottomans = pluralistic, great society

I'm not a Liberal (great assumption, especially when I've pointed out numerous times here recently that I'm not a Liberal), and I am not going to deny history, and that is the Ottoman's were far more tolerant than Christian Europe during the same time. And I didn't say it was great, but I did say they practiced more religious tolerance than Europe. Perhaps you need to take a step back and rethink things if you get "great pluralistic society" from one comment regarding one aspect of the Ottoman empire.