Does a Satanist/Luciferian first need to be a Christian?

[Halcyon]

I read a quote recently, although I can't recall where, that a [theistic] Satanist or Luciferian must first be a Christian.
Presumably because a belief in Satan and/or Lucifer goes hand in hand with a belief in God and probably Jesus too.

What are your thoughts on this idea?

 

[Random]

I read a quote recently, although I can't recall where, that a [theistic] Satanist or Luciferian must first be a Christian.

Presumably because a belief in Satan and/or Lucifer goes hand in hand with a belief in God and probably Jesus too.

What are your thoughts on this idea?

Sure, yes; generally.

But it's all so messed up, isn't it? Some say Lucifer isn't Satan, defying most who say they are the same being, then others remind us Lucifer was a Roman god and consort of Venus, the goddess of Love, then others say Freemasons worship Lucifer and if they do then they can't all be Christians, since they are not all Christians...etc etcetera....

Jews and Muslims have varying beliefs about Satan, he's in their Scriptures; but how can a belief in Satan/Lucifer be theistic when he is NOT A GOD? He is, as the Muslims, Jews and Christians say - a FALLEN ANGEL, that is a created being, not a god. Yet for him to be worshipped as God or a god, this would then mean that one would not have to be a Christian or believe in Christ, because their Scriptures don't support the idea of Lucifer/Satan as a deity. Right?

Basically, it's musing over questions like this that made a nonsense of Catholicism for me. Nothing adds up...

Paradise Lost and other Middle-Ages folk tales are more responsible for the identification of Lucifer with Satan than the oft-quoted passages in Isaiah.

But then the Roman Christians had already demonized him as the consort of the goddess, a pagan icon, so...it was perhaps natural to ID him as the Devil? OK, but the question remains; is that very Christian in essence?

So I guess, in closing, the answer is the same; generally if one puts Lucifer/Satan on the pedestal as a god or The God, then one would generally take his story from the Christian tradition, but not necessarily be a Christian.

Perhaps the best thing would be for Lucifer/Satan to be the archetypal God-figure in a new religion devoid of Abrahamic mythology.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Not necessarily. I would guess that would come from the culture one is born in. In America for instance, there is a good chance that someone of any religion other than Christianity used to be a Christian.
Someone could choose to follow Satan rather than worship God from the start though.

 

[darkendless]

Not necessarily. I would guess that would come from the culture one is born in. In America for instance, there is a good chance that someone of any religion other than Christianity used to be a Christian.
Someone could choose to follow Satan rather than worship God from the start though.

My first "choice" of religion was satanism. Choice was highlighted as i had no choice but to go to church with my grandparents as a child. Its why im so against Christianity.

Remember though, not all of us belive in satan/luficer at all.

 

[Watchmen]

I a person can be a Christian without first being a Satanist then why not vice versa? I don't think a person needs to be a Christian before being a Satanist.

 

[evolve2love]

Hello. Again. It's evolve2love.

I love this debate.

My reasoning goes like this.
-Lucifer is in the bible therefore you have to buy into the bible before you can buy into satan therefore you have to be a Christian to beleive in him.

Unless you think he's got enough support to make a seperate deity.

This cross-pollination between Witchcraft and Satanism is riduculous and quite frankly offensive to most Witches.
Historically Witches worship 2 deities -1 male, 1 female -they work in perfect harmony to make one God (ying-yang!) Personification of the male is the representation of the spark the female is like the light-bolb. Chicken and egg thing goin on there. HIstorically Christians tried to shame them into signing over by saying that to worship another God was to worship Satan therefore your God must be Satan. Don't you love logic? Anyway the DEMONISATION of Pagan male deities was another attempt in the popularity contest which had some quite catostrophic results.

 

[Azakel]

Hello. Again. It's evolve2love.

I love this debate.

My reasoning goes like this.
-Lucifer is in the bible therefore you have to buy into the bible before you can buy into satan therefore you have to be a Christian to beleive in him.

Unless you think he's got enough support to make a seperate deity.

This cross-pollination between Witchcraft and Satanism is riduculous and quite frankly offensive to most Witches.
Historically Witches worship 2 deities -1 male, 1 female -they work in perfect harmony to make one God (ying-yang!) Personification of the male is the representation of the spark the female is like the light-bolb. Chicken and egg thing goin on there. HIstorically Christians tried to shame them into signing over by saying that to worship another God was to worship Satan therefore your God must be Satan. Don't you love logic? Anyway the DEMONISATION of Pagan male deities was another attempt in the popularity contest which had some quite catostrophic results.

But Lucifer also appears as a Per-Christian Roman God, so one doesn't not have to believe in the Bible, he does have enough support to be his own God. Though I will agree that must that believe in Lucifer be they Christian or Luciferians have him as an Christian type being(fallen angel and all).

 

[Shadow Wolf]

-Lucifer is in the bible therefore you have to buy into the bible before you can buy into satan therefore you have to be a Christian to beleive in him.

How can one be a Christian if one sides with the "enemy" of Christianity? Also both Lucifer and Satan appear pre-Christianity. Further, the Satan of Judiasm is not even the same Satan of Christianity.

 

[DiabloNightcraft]

Greetings
Rather odd question to be put forward I must say.

I would think that it would be a Christian who would convert to Satansim, which is on the rise today. If the Christian would stop to look and take in there interesting back ground in there enlightned history. Then I feel that not all things would so rosey I would say.

Regards

DiabloNightcraft

 

[Halcyon]

How can one be a Christian if one sides with the "enemy" of Christianity? Also both Lucifer and Satan appear pre-Christianity. Further, the Satan of Judiasm is not even the same Satan of Christianity.

But the majority of people who identify as Satanists today arose from a predominantly Christian culture, wouldn't you say?

I think the thought process behind the quote was that a person would need to have the Christian belief system in their mind prior to becoming a Satanist, simply because without the Christian belief system there isn't a frame of reference.
Sure you could be a Luciferian without having knowledge if Christianity, but you'd be worshipping the Roman God of the morning star, who was nothing like the Lucifer portrayed in the Christian tradition, which is the Lucifer most Luciferians and many theistic Satanists follow today.

 

[darkendless]

But the majority of people who identify as Satanists today arose from a predominantly Christian culture, wouldn't you say?

I think the thought process behind the quote was that a person would need to have the Christian belief system in their mind prior to becoming a Satanist, simply because without the Christian belief system there isn't a frame of reference.
Sure you could be a Luciferian without having knowledge if Christianity, but you'd be worshipping the Roman God of the morning star, who was nothing like the Lucifer portrayed in the Christian tradition, which is the Lucifer most Luciferians and many theistic Satanists follow today.

The common conception of Satanism is rebelling from Christianity, although it is often not the case.
You make a good point, but people are against autority, against god concepts, against theism and a whole range of other things that are classified under the banner of satanism. My perspective is similiar to what you have outlined and im not alone, but there are always exceptions to the rules. Like all religions satanism is made to fit, its not like you will believe this or be banished to heaven to dance around holding hands in a circle all day.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

But the majority of people who identify as Satanists today arose from a predominantly Christian culture, wouldn't you say?

Not necessarily. I would guess that would come from the culture one is born in. In America for instance, there is a good chance that someone of any religion other than Christianity used to be a Christian.
Someone could choose to follow Satan rather than worship God from the start though.

It might make an interesting poll to see how many people here on RF that are not Christian, used to be Christian.

 

[DiabloNightcraft]

How can one be a Christian if one sides with the "enemy" of Christianity? Also both Lucifer and Satan appear pre-Christianity. Further, the Satan of Judiasm is not even the same Satan of Christianity.

Christians would be surpised to know that in there origin they where very much pagan, only in recent times I guess they have developed a new approach which strange "must have missed something! to cover the truth of what it is like to be Christian and just about all other religions.

Christian ideas do not go back much futher than Constantine of Rome, Lucifer/Satanism ideas go way back much further to there origins, to the Black Magicans of the Pre-Atlantis era the dark path is very old indeed.

Regards

DiabloNightcraft

 

[ViaSinistra]

No.. you don't need to be a "Christian" first, but it is a good guide of what "not-to-be. Therefore said.. No

 

[Darkwater]

I am Protestant,Pro-testis.I testify.......If I can't testify then I treat it with suspicion.

I also like to protest against the flawed *teachings* of Rome,which is just a by the way .Same as satanist is not just somebody regurgitating enforced pistis which may have been rammed down his throat.

Not overly influenced by any arrogance,see through it very quickly whereas the truth becomes stronger the more it is tested.

Namaste

Andy

 

[darkendless]

I am Protestant,Pro-testis.I testify.......If I can't testify then I treat it with suspicion.

I also like to protest against the flawed *teachings* of Rome,which is just a by the way .Same as satanist is not just somebody regurgitating enforced pistis which may have been rammed down his throat.

Not overly influenced by any arrogance,see through it very quickly whereas the truth becomes stronger the more it is tested.

Namaste

Andy

Doctrine never did anyone any good, unless of course you like being told you're always wrong and told what to do by some old man with a cane :S

Lack of doctrine but encouragement to think outside the square draws me in, i like to reason, and explore reason.
However don't be fooled, some satanic sects im sure love to spread the word of Uncle LaVey as law, the same way the Pope does. This is not constructive and conforms to the style of teaching practiced by Abrahamic religions, i thought it was our goal not conform to ancient methods with outdated effects on humanity?

 

[Darkwater]

I am very careful about the books I read,so as not to damage my very keen sense of perspective on all things.
I like the Satanic Bible,it just presents views in a humorous way so far,I like the view of the upside pallindrome Lavey does have.He just calls it as he sees it.

You do not have to be christian or former christian to be satanist.Just self realised by whichever method that is chucked at you..

 

[Majin Buu]

I was never a Christian of any sort, I was "Born a Satanist". I believe that if you are here because of the pain that was caused to you during your Christian upbringing then you should probably seek some professional help to first ease that pain. Once your pain has been eased and you have an understanding of where you actually stand in this world then it might be a little easier to look inside yourself and ask to whom or what do I owe my existence to.

 

[ViaSinistra]

I am very careful about the books I read,so as not to damage my very keen sense of perspective on all things.
I like the Satanic Bible,it just presents views in a humorous way so far,I like the view of the upside pallindrome Lavey does have.He just calls it as he sees it.

You do not have to be christian or former christian to be satanist.Just self realised by whichever method that is chucked at you..

Yes Darkwater...We all must take in everything but understand the concequences of adopting others beliefs or teachings by way of book, media or word of mouth. We must always ask ourselves: "what thoughts and beliefs are my own...and what thoughts and beliefs has society programmed into me?"

 

[DiabloNightcraft]

Greetings
In answering this the problem from the critics such as Christianity and the like always come from the demand that there be only one world view point. One perspective one belief system to work from according to the religion. In other words one size fits all belief system. That is the trouble always the trouble.

Regards

DiabloNightcraft