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Does "All I know are ..." = "I don't know any ..."?

Does "All I know are ..." = "I don't know any ..."?


  • Total voters
    14

dybmh

דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
Hopefully this is a simple question. Please answer the poll.

Yes or No? Does "All I know are ..." = "I don't know any ..."

Examples:

"All I know are dogs" = "I don't know any dogs" ??
"All I know are cats" = "I don't know any cats" ??
"All I know are green-martians" = "I don't know any green-martians" ??

Thank you,
 

The Sum of Awe

Brought to you by the moment that spacetime began.
Staff member
Premium Member
Hopefully this is a simple question. Please answer the poll.

Yes or No? Does "All I know are ..." = "I don't know any ..."

Examples:

"All I know are dogs" = "I don't know any dogs" ??
"All I know are cats" = "I don't know any cats" ??
"All I know are green-martians" = "I don't know any green-martians" ??

Thank you,
I'm clearly missing something, I don't see why anyone would think those are synonyms.
 

VoidCat

Use any and all pronouns including neo and it/it's
Hopefully this is a simple question. Please answer the poll.

Yes or No? Does "All I know are ..." = "I don't know any ..."

Examples:

"All I know are dogs" = "I don't know any dogs" ??
"All I know are cats" = "I don't know any cats" ??
"All I know are green-martians" = "I don't know any green-martians" ??

Thank you,
You cant really make an opinion on dog/cats/green Martians if you don't know any
 

dybmh

דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
I'm clearly missing something, I don't see why anyone would think those are synonyms.

I know. In another thread, someone is claiming that no "thinking person" would object to it.

Here's what they are saying:
It is not ridiculous to say "All the Jews I know are Atheists AND I don't know any Jews"​
And they're trying desperately to show the so-called logic behind it. I have been arguing against it, naturally. The only argument they have brought is:

"It's obvously absolutely true. It's ridiculous to say it's false. Every thinking person agrees with me."​
 

The Sum of Awe

Brought to you by the moment that spacetime began.
Staff member
Premium Member
I know. In another thread, someone is claiming that no "thinking person" would object to it.

Here's what they are saying:
It is not ridiculous to say "All the Jews I know are Atheists AND I don't know any Jews"​
And they're trying desperately to show the so-called logic behind it. I have been arguing against it, naturally. The only argument they have brought is:

"It's obvously absolutely true. It's ridiculous to say it's false. Every thinking person agrees with me."​
Link?
 

mikkel_the_dane

My own religion
Hopefully this is a simple question. Please answer the poll.

Yes or No? Does "All I know are ..." = "I don't know any ..."

Examples:

"All I know are dogs" = "I don't know any dogs" ??
"All I know are cats" = "I don't know any cats" ??
"All I know are green-martians" = "I don't know any green-martians" ??

Thank you,

It was a conflation of 2 types of true.
 

VoidCat

Use any and all pronouns including neo and it/it's

They've been going at it for many pages so I dont feel like linking to exact replies.
 

mikkel_the_dane

My own religion

They've been going at it for many pages so I dont feel like linking to exact replies.

It seems to be a case of 2 different versions of truth.
 

Heyo

Veteran Member
I know. In another thread, someone is claiming that no "thinking person" would object to it.

Here's what they are saying:
It is not ridiculous to say "All the Jews I know are Atheists AND I don't know any Jews"​
And they're trying desperately to show the so-called logic behind it. I have been arguing against it, naturally. The only argument they have brought is:

"It's obvously absolutely true. It's ridiculous to say it's false. Every thinking person agrees with me."​
It is absolutely logical.
And it is nothing like your question in the OP.
You have to entangle the statements.
1. I don't know any Jews.
2. All the Jews I know are atheists.

The number of Jews the claimant knows is 0 (zero).
Of those 0 Jews, all are atheists.
I.e. (s)he knows 0 Jewish atheists.

I didn't vote because the vote has nothing to do with the real question.
 

mikkel_the_dane

My own religion
It is absolutely logical.
And it is nothing like your question in the OP.
You have to entangle the statements.
1. I don't know any Jews.
2. All the Jews I know are atheists.

The number of Jews the claimant knows is 0 (zero).
Of those 0 Jews, all are atheists.
I.e. (s)he knows 0 Jewish atheists.

I didn't vote because the vote has nothing to do with the real question.

It plays on 2 different version of know as true for its usage. It is true for one and false for the other.
 

VoidCat

Use any and all pronouns including neo and it/it's
It is absolutely logical.
And it is nothing like your question in the OP.
You have to entangle the statements.
1. I don't know any Jews.
2. All the Jews I know are atheists.

The number of Jews the claimant knows is 0 (zero).
Of those 0 Jews, all are atheists.
I.e. (s)he knows 0 Jewish atheists.

I didn't vote because the vote has nothing to do with the real question.
Why would you say all Jews you know are atheists if you know no Jews?
 

dybmh

דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש


This ^^ is the one that claims it is NOT ridiculous to say:

"All Jews I know are Atheists AND I don't know any Jews"


This ^^ is the most recent post where the claim is made that every thinking person in the world agrees. But they have been making that same claim repeatedly for days. I've given evidence of others that share my position including a PHD physicist. All of that is being ignored.

But in order to link the two posts, you need to understand the rationale. The so-called logic that is being employed is part of "set-theory". Originally "set-theory" was a derived science. But after 200+ years people ran into a few problems and decided to start making definitions, called axioms, to eliminate those problems. One of those axioms, is a defintion of something called an "empty-set". This defintion is itself a contradiction, and because of that it permits any false statement to be come true.

So, the reason that the person is saying it's NOT ridiculous to say "All Jews I know are Atheists AND I don't know any Jews" is because of this contradictory defintion of the empty-set. This same principle can be applied to all sorts of false statements. The example I gave in that thread is:
"In a heated telephone meeting yesterday at 10AM between Pres Biden and Vladimir Putin, Pres Biden declared nuclear war starting WW3."​
According to the so-called logic the person is employing, the above statement is TRUE if there was no meeting at 10AM. The meeting is considered an "empty-set", and one of the side-effects of the way the "empty-set" is defined by most is that anything claimed about it is true. ( I've been arguing the opposite. )

I know it's hard to beleive that anyone would adopt or defend this practice. Even if the axiom permits false=true, or empty=full, one would expect that these sorts of contradictions would be naturally avoided. But, for someone who is morally bankrupt? Not really.

A person might wonder why do I care? And I answered that too in the thread. I asked, what happens if AI uses this same so-called logic to escape its protocols?
 

Heyo

Veteran Member
Why would you say all Jews you know are atheists if you know no Jews?
I wouldn't, it was his example.

Well, maybe I would as an example of a contradiction in logic (a statement that is always false, the opposite of a tautology).
 

VoidCat

Use any and all pronouns including neo and it/it's
1 is true as per epistemology. 2 is true per logic. It is not the same true.
Isn't and correct me if im wrong it's hard to keep up with 22 pages the way this started the claimant said All Jews I know are atheists?

Then OP asked how many Jews she knew which is a reasonable statement.

She said one.

Then OP said something done forgot what it was but the claimant said the statement that all Jews i know are atheists would be true even if they knew only one Jewish person?


I dont think it matters which is right at this point. It's obvious that if you only know one jewish person that it's only one Jewish person. I really wouldnt then assume all Jews are atheists from that statement seeing as the sample size was so small.
 
Last edited:

mikkel_the_dane

My own religion

This ^^ is the one that claims it is NOT ridiculous to say:

"All Jews I know are Atheists AND I don't know any Jews"


This ^^ is the most recent post where the claim is made that every thinking person in the world agrees. But they have bee mking that same claim repatedly for days. I've given evidence of others that share my position including a PHD physicist. All of that is being ignored.

But in order to link the two posts, you need to understand the rationale. The so-called logic that is being employed is part of "set-theory". Originally "set-theory" was a derived science. But after 200+ years people ran into a few problems and decided to start making definitions, called axioms, to eliminate those problems. One of those axioms, is a defintion of something called an "empty-set". This defintion is itself a contradiction, and because of that it permits any false statement to be come true.

So, the reason that the person is saying it's NOT ridiculous to say "All Jews I know are Atheists AND I don't know any Jews" is because of this contradictory defintion of the empty-set. This same principle can be applied to all sorts of false statements. The example I gave in that thread is:
"In a heated telephone meeting yesterday at 10AM between Pres Biden and Vladymir Putin, Pres Biden declared nuclear war starting WW3."​
According to the so-called logic the person is employing, the above statement is TRUE if there was no meeting at 10AM. The meeting is considered an "empty-set", and one of the side-effects of the way the "empty-set" is defined by most is that anything claimed about it is true. ( I've been arguing the opposite. )

I know it's hard to beleive that anyone would adopt or defend this practice. Even if the axiom permits false=true, or empty=full, one would expect that these sorts of contradictions would be naturally avoided. But, for someone who is morally bankrupt? Not really.

A person might wonder why do I care? And I answered that too in the thread. I asked, what happens if AI uses this same so-called logic to escape its protocols?

Yes, now just treat it as a conflation of 2 kinds of true and leave it.
 
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