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Does Atheism Lead to Immoral Behavior?

Sgt. Pepper

All you need is love.
Keep marriage optional, yeah.
Believers can't agree with that.

Apparently most Abrahamic theists do genuinely believe in marriage because they continue to divorce and remarry, sometimes twice or more.

We now have a society, which accepts sex outside marriage, and a marriage can
consist of 2 men or 2 women.
Nothing Holy about it any more. It's just an accessary.
There's nothing holy about Abrahamic theists divorcing and remarrying multiple times either. So much for the sanctity of marriage that they're always going on about. They're clearly hypocrites, pompously whining about the sanctity of marriage during their homophobic rants about same-sex marriage.
 

SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
Keep marriage optional, yeah.
Believers can't agree with that.

We now have a society, which accepts sex outside marriage, and a marriage can
consist of 2 men or 2 women.
Nothing Holy about it any more. It's just an accessary.
How does it become an "accessory" when two men or women marry each other? What does that mean?
 

SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
It means its optional, and just a public proclamation, and a party.
It serves no other purpose .. unless it's due to financial incentive .. wow.
So allowing gay people to marry, somehow makes marriage ... optional? I'm not following, I don't think.
Because it seems to me that it strengthens the family unit and the institution of marriage that you seem so worried about losing.
 

It Aint Necessarily So

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Maybe that's why my marriage succeeded and yours didn't.
I guess I must have missed something. Did he say that his marriage failed? That would be fairly relevant to this discussion. I asked earlier and got no reply from him or others, and I tend not to keep asking, so absent any feedback here, I'll assume that something is responsible for this posting behavior where people say he's unmarried and he doesn't deny it, and that it is that his wife left him. There is really no other effective way to approach these things but to draw a tentative conclusion and give anybody who disagrees a chance to modify it if they like.
Well you disagree with most Christians and Muslims .. in that the Bible and Qur'an have "got it wrong".
Christians and Muslims disagree with one another and consider their mutual religions and their holy books wrong. But yes, critical thinkers think all believers and their holy books have it wrong.
Neither do I disrespect women.
You're still posting things like that? Yes, we know you think that, but apparently you don't know that that opinion has been vehemently rejected, or your comment would reflect that. It should acknowledge a difference of opinion there, maybe with phrases like, "I know you don't agree" or "This is what respect for women looks like in Islam."
As you know, I favour the institution of marriage, whilst others see it as optional.
Wrong still, and formally flawed. Favor and optional aren't opposite. You don't favor the institution of marriage. You prefer that sex outside of it be considered a capital crime, and not just for you, but everybody else as well. I support marriage. You favor the institution of sex slavery through marriage, not marriage itself. You prefer that wives submit to forced sex and keep it a secret from the police.
so people try to get me angry, accusing me of rape
I'd say suspected of being a rapist rather than accused, and frankly, it's just not credible that a man with your values doesn't disrespect his wife and if she had the audacity to resist his advances, didn't force sex on her. I won't ask you.
The Imam leads the prayer .. he doesn't collect taxes.
Somebody's making money with that religion, which is yet another self-licking ice cream cone: "a process, department, institution, or other thing that offers few benefits and exists primarily to justify or perpetuate its own existence." I'm assuming Islamic clergy don't have other jobs to pay their bills just like the priests, pastors, and ministers of Christianity.
Keep marriage optional, yeah. Believers can't agree with that.
It doesn't matter if they agree except to themselves and maybe some of the people who know them. This is a big difference between my humanist values and your theistic ones. I support you living any lawful lifestyle you prefer, and you would compel me to obey your values if you could, and have me executed if I didn't.
We now have a society, which accepts sex outside marriage, and a marriage can consist of 2 men or 2 women. Nothing Holy about it any more.
Holy is a meaningless word in the literal religious sense, just like sin, blasphemy, divine, grace, and salvation. None refer to anything real if the god associated with them doesn't exist. Marriage as you envision it is unholy in a metaphorical sense, where holy means constructive and life affirming. Marriage as you define it is sinful in a metaphorical sense, where sin is any moral offense according to rational ethics.
 

ADigitalArtist

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
When it comes right down to it, I'm less interested in changing @muhammad_isa 's mind and more interested in using him as a foil or cautionary example for others reading the thread who might be tempted to adopt his position.
Or at the very least hopefully helps people see this for the monumental red flag it is.
I guess I must have missed something. Did he say that his marriage failed? That would be fairly relevant to this discussion. I asked earlier and got no reply from him or others, and I tend not to keep asking, so absent any feedback here, I'll assume that something is responsible for this posting behavior where people say he's unmarried and he doesn't deny it, and that it is that his wife left him. There is really no other effective way to approach these things but to draw a tentative conclusion and give anybody who disagrees a chance to modify it if they like.
It wasn't in this thread, but if you search 'wife' or 'my ex' into the search under his name he's posted elsewhere about it.
 

muhammad_isa

Veteran Member
Did he say that his marriage failed? That would be fairly relevant to this discussion.
Not really .. unless of course you want to judge a man or a woman by whether they have experienced divorce.

Divorce is not desirable as most Christians would agree, but keeping a wife by force is a FAR greater sin in Islam.
..perhaps she would rather be married to a rich man .. or just wants to have some peace.
That's her business.
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
Most "real life bedroom abuse" is carried out by violent criminals.
Strangely enough, Islamic law does not tolerate these kind of people.
And still, a woman needs witnesses in court to show this type of abuse is happening.

So tell me, what is the stance in islamic law about an abused woman having a witness in the bedroom to the abuse she receives?
 

Polymath257

Think & Care
Staff member
Premium Member
According to the Oxford English Dictionary the English word "misogyny" was coined in the middle of the 17th century from the Greek misos 'hatred' + gunē 'woman'. The word was rarely used until it was popularised by second-wave feminism in the 1970s.
Misogyny - Wikipedia

Well I do not hate women.
But many people here hate Islam.

Men are in charge of women, because God hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which God hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Lo! God is ever High, Exalted, Great.
- Qur'an 4:34 -

A wonderful example of an outdated moral philosophy that should be abandoned. Fortunately, most of the world has progressed beyond this viewpoint and realized that women are full adults and not children that need to be 'cared for'. Nor do they need to 'obey' their hisbands any more than the husbands need to obey them.

To define a 'good woman' as obedient simply identifies them as either slaves or children. And that is a good example of how religion encourages people to support immoral systems.

In regard to the OP, I wonder if theism leads to the support of immoral behavior and views.
 
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