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Does Australia Try to Silence Those Who Want to Oppose the LGBT+ Movement?

thomas t

non-denominational Christian
Recently, a poster on a major Christian message board made that claim in a newly created thread.

Since it is forbidden to "promote homosexuality" on that board, noone challenged that claim.
I think it is presumption backed up by nothing.
But on this board, it continues to be treated as factual.

The poster cited a law in Australia banning conversion therapies in Victoria Victoria bans gay conversion practices after 12-hour debate.

In my opinion, this has nothing to do with freedom of speech.

The alleged infringement on people's right to raise their voice is but another Christian conspiracy theory, I'm afraid.
Since it is a major Christian discussion forum with thousands of members, this is quite embarrassing, I think.
 

Eddi

Christianity, Taoism, and Humanism
Premium Member
I think I know which message board you mean

I've signed up to it and made a few posts but I don't like it one bit

I get negative vibes from it

Don't really fit in there for many reasons, including homosexuality
 

PureX

Veteran Member
People can get addicted to the idea of their own righteousness. So much so that to imagine themselves as being chastised for it by their 'lessers' only adds to the sense of superiority. I don't think it's a particularly religious Christian thing, but they do seem to fall into it in significant numbers.
 

Lyndon

"Peace is the answer" quote: GOD, 2014
Premium Member
I can't think of anything more stupid than being opposed to LGBTs
 

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
Recently, a poster on a major Christian message board made that claim in a newly created thread.

Since it is forbidden to "promote homosexuality" on that board, noone challenged that claim.
I think it is presumption backed up by nothing.
But on this board, it continues to be treated as factual.

The poster cited a law in Australia banning conversion therapies in Victoria Victoria bans gay conversion practices after 12-hour debate.

In my opinion, this has nothing to do with freedom of speech.

The alleged infringement on people's right to raise their voice is but another Christian conspiracy theory, I'm afraid.
Since it is a major Christian discussion forum with thousands of members, this is quite embarrassing, I think.
I do belive it is become a taboo to say one is agaist homosexual acts. Because the world today is all about freedom of expression and freedom of the people.
Especially in Abrahamic religions the topic of Homosexuality is a sore point for many. and many forget that it is not a sin to be born Gay, lesbian or other sexual preferences that people have today. What the religious teachings say is that it is the act it self that is the sin.
Personally i can not speak for other human beings, I can only do my best to keep the law and the word of God. So for me, if someone want to be Gay, lesbian or other sexual orientations it is up to them, not to me to judge them.
 

mikkel_the_dane

My own religion
I do belive it is become a taboo to say one is agaist homosexual acts. Because the world today is all about freedom of expression and freedom of the people.
Especially in Abrahamic religions the topic of Homosexuality is a sore point for many. and many forget that it is not a sin to be born Gay, lesbian or other sexual preferences that people have today. What the religious teachings say is that it is the act it self that is the sin.
Personally i can not speak for other human beings, I can only do my best to keep the law and the word of God. So for me, if someone want to be Gay, lesbian or other sexual orientations it is up to them, not to me to judge them.

Yeah, that is how to do a Law Religion, but it is a fine line. As for an example if you like. :)
 

mikkel_the_dane

My own religion
Please do :)

Utah, being Mormon had an overrepresentation in suicides by young LGTBQ+. It was determined in the end to be because they were told that they would sin and go to Hell, if they stayed LGTBQ+. So it can be over done, your example. I doubt as I know you, that you would do that, but it happens that it is overdone from a secular point of view.
 

VoidCat

Use any and all pronouns including neo and it/it's
From the article
while some medical professionals have raised concerns it could compromise the practice of psychiatry and psychotherapy.
Why would it supposedly stop people from doing their job?
 

thomas t

non-denominational Christian
I do belive it is become a taboo to say one is agaist homosexual acts. Because the world today is all about freedom of expression and freedom of the people.
The issue that I see here is that the poster in that thread complains about lack of free speech... on a topic for which there is no free speech in that board he's writing in.

His complaint couldn't be more hypocrite.
However, once you engage with the poster in a debate about the pros and cons of discussing free speech for a matter that cannot be discussed freely on a board like this.... they can report you and later staff comes and deletes your post - for discussing rules and/or disrupting the peace and so on...

My conclusion: if you want to discuss free speech concerning a particular topic... make sure you post on a board that allows free speech on the same matter.

Basically he was asking for special treatment, as I see it.

Even if you disagree with today's lines of thoughts concerning the matter, you can stay fair when it comes to discussing debate options, I think.
 

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
Utah, being Mormon had an overrepresentation in suicides by young LGTBQ+. It was determined in the end to be because they were told that they would sin and go to Hell, if they stayed LGTBQ+. So it can be over done your example. I doubt as I know you, that you would do that, but it happens that it is overdone from a secular point of view.
As most if not all of RF members know already :) I am a hetrosexual man, but for your example, if i was born gay, i know that it is an even greater sin to take my own life. so if i was gay and wanted to continue the path in religion, i would have to work on the attachmets to sexual lust, and read a lot to understand why it would be a sin to have sex as a gay person according to the religious teaching. So yes it is very difficult for those who are born with a different sexual preference.
This answer is not an example to speak of what others should do, I only answered how i would try to do it. But i can not know how a real Gay person feels or think. so please do not judge what i said as a judgment of gay people.
 

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
The issue that I see here is that the poster in that thread complains about lack of free speech... on a topic for which there is no free speech in that board he's writing in.

His complaint couldn't be more hypocrite.
However, once you engage with the poster in a debate about the pros and cons of discussing free speech for a matter that cannot be discussed freely on a board like this.... they can report you and later staff comes and deletes your post - for discussing rules and/or disrupting the peace and so on...

My conclusion: if you want to discuss free speech concerning a particular topic... make sure you post on a board that allows free speech on the same matter.

Basically he was asking for special treatment, as I see it.

Even if you disagree with today's lines of thoughts concerning the matter, you can stay fair when it comes to discussing debate options, I think.
Yes. this person in you OP should have know that in that Forum, the topic was off limit, and should have respected it in that way.
 

Brian2

Veteran Member
Recently, a poster on a major Christian message board made that claim in a newly created thread.

Since it is forbidden to "promote homosexuality" on that board, noone challenged that claim.
I think it is presumption backed up by nothing.
But on this board, it continues to be treated as factual.

The poster cited a law in Australia banning conversion therapies in Victoria Victoria bans gay conversion practices after 12-hour debate.

In my opinion, this has nothing to do with freedom of speech.

The alleged infringement on people's right to raise their voice is but another Christian conspiracy theory, I'm afraid.
Since it is a major Christian discussion forum with thousands of members, this is quite embarrassing, I think.

There is concern about some of the things in the Law here in Victoria Australia in regards free speech and the rights of parents. It goes hand in hand with other gay rights things and has been brewing here for a couple of years since gay marriage was approved.
There is a group here, Australian Christian Lobby who look into laws and come up with possible infringements on free speech and parental rights etc and have been stirring things up a bit amongst Christians.
It is good to get a Christian view and warning for society out there of course.
The gay conversion therapy law is just one aspect of the whole thing. There is the whole idea of gender fluidity which is being introduced into school curriculums also. This is to help stop bullying but but seems to go against the rights of parents and councillors of kids. The only thing that is allowed really is affirmation of whatever gender the child decides that he/she is. This also is related to surgery to change or fix ambiguity problems in the physiology of a child who may be part female and part male.
It gets complicated.
In Victoria we have a Premier who seems to want to be at the forefront for legislating social changes in the world. It can be a good thing but he seems to want to take it a bit too far at times. This is the concern of the Australian Christian Lobby who stir up Christian feelings about the whole thing.
The whole gay rights thing is divisive for Christians unfortunately.
 

lewisnotmiller

Grand Hat
Staff member
Premium Member
Recently, a poster on a major Christian message board made that claim in a newly created thread.

Since it is forbidden to "promote homosexuality" on that board, noone challenged that claim.
I think it is presumption backed up by nothing.
But on this board, it continues to be treated as factual.

The poster cited a law in Australia banning conversion therapies in Victoria Victoria bans gay conversion practices after 12-hour debate.

In my opinion, this has nothing to do with freedom of speech.

The alleged infringement on people's right to raise their voice is but another Christian conspiracy theory, I'm afraid.
Since it is a major Christian discussion forum with thousands of members, this is quite embarrassing, I think.

Interesting topic, and I'm a Victorian, so maybe I can add something of value here. There are a couple of considerations here, at a high level I think. One is the concept that 'free speech' is being eroded. The second is more around this specific legislation. First to 'free speech'...

I think what is commonly happening is that issues of social acceptance, or even social censure are being confused with 'freedom of speech'.
I'm 46. When I was a kid, gay slurs were common. Many were simply throwaway lines meant as a general insult. Calling someone certain derogatory names didn't mean they were literally gay, for example, but was more about questioning their masculinity/toughness, or just used as general insults.

That type of language is socially unacceptable these days. I'm sure there are still similar jokes and insults made within certain groups, but (much like with racism) you are going to suffer a level of social censure or pushback if you start throwing such terms around in general company.

Freedom of speech in Australia isn't quite treated the same as it appears to be in the US, but if I want to call the Prime Minister a d***head, then so be it. But if I used a homosexual slur against him in a public setting, that would get a far more serious response. The barest of considerations of history will leave someone understanding why. It's not that I'd be thrown in gaol, but I'd be pilloried, and likely suffer other consequences (banned from venues, impact on employment, etc) as well as becoming a meme and joke I suspect.

To any decrying 'historical values', they'd need to show some consistency. Whilst highly ironic that the boards you referred to in the OP called out 'freedom of speech' issues whilst doing so in a controlled environment, it's even simpler that that. 'Traditional values' used social censure ruthlessly to control speech.

In relation to this legislation, my quick thoughts are as follows;
Gay conversion therapy isn't the same as using a homosexual slur on someone, in the sense that the intent of the action is (hopefully!) different. But the view of the government...and I strongly believe this would be supported by the majority of the population...is that gay conversion therapy is harmful to the person undergoing it. And these people are often minors, or young adults who have been brought up with a very specific view on homosexuality, reinforced over time. If we take religion out of the picture (for a moment) and look at this from an evidence-based approach, there is pretty clear evidence of the ineffectiveness and negative impact of such 'therapies', at least anecdotally.

I can't (legally) verbally abuse my wife. That's not an attempt to restrict my freedom of speech, it's an attempt to protect my wife from mental harm. This is along the same lines.

If someone wants to provide evidence that gay conversion therapy leads to good outcomes for the 'converted', then more power to them. That's STILL not an argument about freedom of speech, but at least it's on topic.
But I'd be (perhaps) interested in their thoughts about people like David Matheson or McKrae Game, and how that plays into their concept that gay conversion therapy promotes freedom of speech...
 

lewisnotmiller

Grand Hat
Staff member
Premium Member
There is concern about some of the things in the Law here in Victoria Australia in regards free speech and the rights of parents. It goes hand in hand with other gay rights things and has been brewing here for a couple of years since gay marriage was approved.
There is a group here, Australian Christian Lobby who look into laws and come up with possible infringements on free speech and parental rights etc and have been stirring things up a bit amongst Christians.
It is good to get a Christian view and warning for society out there of course.
The gay conversion therapy law is just one aspect of the whole thing. There is the whole idea of gender fluidity which is being introduced into school curriculums also. This is to help stop bullying but but seems to go against the rights of parents and councillors of kids. The only thing that is allowed really is affirmation of whatever gender the child decides that he/she is. This also is related to surgery to change or fix ambiguity problems in the physiology of a child who may be part female and part male.
It gets complicated.
In Victoria we have a Premier who seems to want to be at the forefront for legislating social changes in the world. It can be a good thing but he seems to want to take it a bit too far at times. This is the concern of the Australian Christian Lobby who stir up Christian feelings about the whole thing.
The whole gay rights thing is divisive for Christians unfortunately.

Don't have any major issues with your post, but I was trying to work out how the current handling of gender in schools goes against the rights of parents?
 
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