Does Death End it All?

[Runewolf1973]

Bitter in some ways, perhaps. But I see death as in some respects no more an issue than is letting go of the past on a daily basis. There can be a bit of emotional pain to letting go of the past at times, but it is both necessary and possible for us to do it. If death brings about absolute oblivion, that seems to me a plus, actually. I would prefer oblivion to eternity.

I would almost prefer that as well, but unfortunately I don't believe that is what happens.

 

[Runewolf1973]

Firstly I'll say that I don't know what happens after death and I don't believe anybody else does either. To my mind the best we can hope for is to make an educated guess. Saying that there is definitely nothing after death is presumptuous and creating detailed heavens and hells reached through specific actions/beliefs can actually be dangerous.
Having said that, my best guess is that the afterlife is roughly similar to Hades or Sheol though without the elements of punishment/reward sometimes found in their respective mythologies. This guess stems from my brief explorations into Necromancy, though I will say that I am by no means an expert.
Whether that view of the afterlife is positive or negative really depends on your perspective. Some people have told me that oblivion would be preferable while others have implied that it proves I'm afraid of Hell/non-existence. To my mind though, it's not really any better or worse than either this life or oblivion, it's just a different state of being.

I agree, it's just different.

 

[Runewolf1973]

I speak about this the way I do because my girlfriend is one of those rare few who (I believe) have that "sixth sense". She is able to see and speak to those on the other side quite literally, not in a psychic sort of way, but in a literal way. She knows they are dead. She describes their appearances, their wounds, how they died, etc...I ask a lot of questions. She has never come across a spirit to have claimed they seen God. Apparently, even the dead are atheists to some extent. They are for the most part very confused, stubborn, or wandering souls. She says they can be very persistent and nagging at times also. They know she can see them, so they come to her thinking she wil help them in some way. She usually sends them on their way. They usually don't stick around too long, but some choose to. Some act as though they were "sent" or they have some purpose for sticking around. Most don't even know why they do, they just do.


I will stress again that this is my belief. There is no evidence, only what I can tell you. People should belief what they want or whatever makes them the happiest.


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[Saint Frankenstein]

I speak about this the way I do because my girlfriend is one of those rare few who (I believe) have that "sixth sense". She is able to see and speak to those on the other side quite literally, not in a psychic sort of way, but in a literal way. She describes their appearances, their wounds, how they died, etc...I ask a lot of questions. She has never come across a spirit to have claimed they seen God. Apparently, even the dead are atheists to some extent. They are for the most part very confused, stubborn, or wandering souls. She says they can be very persistent and nagging at times also. They know she can see them, so they come to her thinking she wil help them in some way. She usually sends them on their way. They usually don't stick around too long, but some choose to. Some act as though they were "sent" or they have some purpose for sticking around.


I will stress again that this is my belief. There is no evidence, only what I can tell you. People should belief what they want.

Sounds like earthbound spirits. They are usually very troubled types who can't move on for one reason or another.

 

[Runewolf1973]

Sounds like earthbound spirits. They are usually very troubled types who can't move on for one reason or another.

Yes, she sees earthbound spirits.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Yes, she sees earthbound spirits.

The reason the cause of death is manifesting on them is probably do to trauma they haven't gotten over because of it. Those are people who have died violent deaths or from illness, right?

 

[Runewolf1973]

One interesting thing I did ask her though... What happens to those individuals that were particularly evil, murderous, or malevolent in their previous life...people like Adolf Hitler? She says (and this was coming from Andrew who I mentioned earlier and who she talks to on a fairly frequent basis) that someone like Hitler is put in a type of holding or almost like a purgatory. Their spirit is not permitted to reincarnate for an undetermined amount of time. They are in a way soul-bound to the spirit world as a sort of sentence or punishment, likely to never realize the living world again.

 

[Runewolf1973]

The reason the cause of death is manifesting on them is probably do to trauma they haven't gotten over because of it. Those are people who have died violent deaths or some illness, right?

Yes. She almost always sees them as having some form of physical trauma unless they died from a less obvious cause. They are very obviously (to her) dead, and not the same as real living persons. She knows the difference from one to the next. Usually it seems the cause of death continues to show until such time as they cross over. She knows some spirits that have been on the other side for quite a long time, perhaps hundreds of years, but the vast majority cross over quite shortly after their "death".

They can't taste, they can't smell, they try to touch sometimes, but pretty much all of the physical senses are gone. Like I said before, it's a pretty bland existence. They can still see and they can walk around freely. Like I said, I would consider them only partly conscious. They can communicate, and they have likes, dislikes and emotions just like ordinary living persons.


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[George-ananda]

I speak about this the way I do because my girlfriend is one of those rare few who (I believe) have that "sixth sense". She is able to see and speak to those on the other side quite literally, not in a psychic sort of way, but in a literal way. She knows they are dead. She describes their appearances, their wounds, how they died, etc...I ask a lot of questions.

Cool stuff Runewolf. I appreciate this. And I'm one to believe such things are possible. Now, you say you ask a lot of questions; so do I so here goes.

What most convinced you that she is experiencing an objective reality? Have you tried to get names and verify their previous existence in the physical? Or is that not possible?

She has never come across a spirit to have claimed they seen God.

I would say it's all God so there is nothing separate that can be seen as God.

Apparently, even the dead are atheists to some extent. They are for the most part very confused, stubborn, or wandering souls. She says they can be very persistent and nagging at times also. They know she can see them, so they come to her thinking she wil help them in some way. She usually sends them on their way. They usually don't stick around too long, but some choose to. Some act as though they were "sent" or they have some purpose for sticking around. Most don't even know why they do, they just do.

This sounds like as you say in a later posts earthbound spirits of the lower astral levels; the more unfortunate clinging type attached to earthly things. Eventually they will all be healed and move on. These earthbound types are reported by many experiencers and described in esoteric teachings.

 

[George-ananda]

Are we condemned merely to “wait and see”? Is there any way we can know for sure whether death ends it all?[/COLOR]

JayJay, here is the best website I know of for collecting evidence of the afterlife. The author claims overwhelming proof through a detailed study of various types of paranormal phenomena. I basically agree with him and of course everything on these subjects is controversial as you know


The afterlife evidence

My beliefs is we die, join the astral plane for many years, reunite with loved ones, etc., experience a near heaven-like existence, eventually feel the urge to develop more spiritually and drop our astral form to join our soul body. Our urge to progress will spin new incarnations.

 

[Sees]

I'll wager on just about everything other than resurrection and traditional Christian and Islamic Heaven/Paradise vs Hell - as being some range of possible, probable, and not exclusive.

 

[That one dude...]

I'm not so much concerned about what happens after I die as I am about the manner in which I die. I'd much rather die in my sleep of natural causes then on a gurney bleeding out shortly after a car accident screaming in agony, for instance. After that, why should I care? I'm already dead. Literally cannot care less.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I'll wager on just about everything other than resurrection and traditional Christian and Islamic Heaven/Paradise vs Hell - as being some range of possible, probable, and not exclusive.

I agree. It was always hard for me to accept the Christian belief in one life, the resurrection and Heaven and Hell as it is literally taught in doctrine.

 

[Runewolf1973]

Cool stuff Runewolf. I appreciate this. And I'm one to believe such things are possible. Now, you say you ask a lot of questions; so do I so here goes.

What most convinced you that she is experiencing an objective reality? Have you tried to get names and verify their previous existence in the physical? Or is that not possible?




I would say it's all God so there is nothing separate that can be seen as God.



This sounds like as you say in a later posts earthbound spirits of the lower astral levels; the more unfortunate clinging type attached to earthly things. Eventually they will all be healed and move on. These earthbound types are reported by many experiencers and described in esoteric teachings.

I agree, all is God in a sense, but in a natural way. Brahman it could be called. Those spirits are looking for something that is in a sense all around us, yet many of those on that plane continue searching in a rather dumbfounded-like state for that man-like God of the Bible. This God has never been found apparently. They don't say it doesn't exist (obviously they are a little open minded due to their experience, lol) but they have found so far nothing to show that the Abrahamic god exists. Based on what they know, they don't think it's likely that that god exists.

I am a bit of a clairvoyant myself. I can sense things and picture them in my mind. One time I sensed a spirit was in our house and had a rather vivid image of that spirit in my mind...what he looked like, what he was wearing, where in the house he was standing, and even what he was doing at the time. Later on I asked my girlfriend if she had seen any "new" ones in the house. She told me that there was indeed another spirit in the house. She went on to describe all those things to me...what he looked like, what he was wearing, where he would frequently stand in the hall by the bathroom. She described what I had seen in my own mind's eye (third eye) to a tee...almost. It was then that I asked her "What's that shiney thing he's spinning around in his hand?"....she said "Really? You can actually see that?" "That's a gold pocket watch. He constants plays with that thing." I asked her to try talking to him... According to him it was in fact his grandfathers watch that was passed down unto him.

My girlfriend doesn't really know this, but I do test her ability or I should say reliability from time to time. Lol.


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[The Sum of Awe]

I think the individual is an illusion, that the universe is all the same One, God, you are always physically a part of the universe as much as spiritually, the illusion of multiple entities and dualism is only an illusion.

Therefore, death of individualhood, just a death of an illusion, we are all the One and All.

 

[Runewolf1973]

I think the individual is an illusion, that the universe is all the same One, God, you are always physically a part of the universe as much as spiritually, the illusion of multiple entities and dualism is only an illusion.

Therefore, death of individualhood, just a death of an illusion, we are all the One and All.

This is ultimately true I believe. All of existence is like a ghost or spirit and material objects or individual likenesses thereof are simply different manifestations of that same ONE.

 

[Twilight Hue]

We already know and have experienced death in light of the conditions as they were during that particular span of time prior to our conception and birth enabling us to experience life. As evidenced by the fact of being born, it demonstrates that death conditions are not arguably any more or less different from that of pre-birth, and certainly not permanent, otherwise we could not be born if that was the case.

This leads me to being privy towards the notion of re-birth, based upon what has happened already to each of us on a personal level and the real world observation of the phenomena of the life and death that continually occurs before us on an everyday basis that convinces me that under correct conditions, like that right now, death and life are in essence cyclic phenomena, and not permanent states respectively.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

This is ultimately true I believe. All of existence is like a ghost or spirit and material objects or individual likenesses thereof are simply different manifestations of that same ONE.

I am more on the side that God is the entirety, not the fundamental building block. The truth is, all there is is the entirety, all things together, but they were never apart, that is only an illusion.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

We already know and have experienced death in light of the conditions as they were during that particular span of time prior to our conception and birth enabling us to experience life. As evidenced by the fact of being born, it demonstrates that death conditions are not arguably any more or less different from that of pre-birth, and certainly not permanent, otherwise we could not be born if that was the case.

This leads me to being privy towards the notion of re-birth, based upon what has happened already to each of us on a personal level and the real world observation of the phenomena of the life and death that continually occurs before us on an everyday basis that convinces me that under correct conditions, like that right now, death and life are in essence cyclic phenomena, and not permanent states respectively.

Interesting. Death is like birth in reverse, then.

 

[LuisDantas]

Life would not be half as healthy were if not for death.

Rejection of death is a problem, death itself is not.