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Does Diasgreeing with People Morally Make it Right to Dehumanize?

Buddha Dharma

Buddha Dharma

Dharma Practitioner
Simple question here friends. Does it?

Because as a Buddhist this is what I would say about disagreeing with LGBT people just for example- that it doesn't mean anyone is right to mistreat them, oppress them, or do things to them they know are forms of mental torment. Isn't this the actions of a thoughtlessly cruel person?

Even the people we morally disagree with at the deepest level- I don't think it's right to dehumanize or torment anyone.
 
Buddha Dharma

Buddha Dharma

Dharma Practitioner
In seriousness though, I didn't intend this post to call anyone in particular out. I am sure we're all jackasses at times. I know I am. Sometimes I'm saying the gatha of repentance with a LOT of feeling
 
Enoch07

Enoch07

It's all a sick freaking joke.
Premium Member
Buddha Dharma said:
Simple question here friends. Does it?

Because as a Buddhist this is what I would say about disagreeing with LGBT people just for example- that it doesn't mean anyone is right to mistreat them, oppress them, or do things to them they know are forms of mental torment. Isn't this the actions of a thoughtlessly cruel person?

Even the people we morally disagree with at the deepest level- I don't think it's right to dehumanize or torment anyone.
Click to expand...

The only people who it's ok to dehumanize is people similar to Hitler who are guilty of mass genocide. And also child molesters/rapist, I don't have much sympathy for them either.
 
74x12

74x12

Well-Known Member
Buddha Dharma said:
Simple question here friends. Does it?

Because as a Buddhist this is what I would say about disagreeing with LGBT people just for example- that it doesn't mean anyone is right to mistreat them, oppress them, or do things to them they know are forms of mental torment. Isn't this the actions of a thoughtlessly cruel person?

Even the people we morally disagree with at the deepest level- I don't think it's right to dehumanize or torment anyone.
Click to expand...
Agreed. That's something leftists don't understand. Just because I as a Christian disagree with someone's sexual preference that doesn't mean I hate them or anything like that. Leftists prefer to dehumanize their political or moral opponents as "bigots" etc. rather than countering with solid arguments.
 
Sunstone

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
In today's politics, there are people on the Left who dehumanize people on the Right, and people on the Right who dehumanize people on the Left. There are even folks on both sides who claim only "the other side" dehumanizes people.

But there are also folks who claim they're being dehumanized when no one is dehumanizing them. Just because someone criticizes you or your opinions, actions, etc as, say, "stupid" or "vile" is most often no legitimate reason to claim you're being dehumanized. Dehumanization goes well beyond mere criticism of someone: If all you do is call me a "dolt" you are not yet dehumanizing me.

However, if you say or imply that I have no good qualities at all, or that I'm wholly bad or pure evil, then you are dehumanizing me. If you call me something that is generally considered to be monstrous, such as a "baby-killer", then you are dehumanizing me. The essence of dehumanizing is not the mere criticism of someone, but rather the reduction of someone to something that can be thought of as not requiring the basic respect and consideration that is morally due any human.


I think dehumanization is facilitated by echo-chambers. That is, by things like certain internet websites, radio programs, or cable TV channels where you only hear one side presented fairly and accurately, and where one side is largely or entirely unchallenged.
 
Mindmaster

Mindmaster

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Buddha Dharma said:
Even the people we morally disagree with at the deepest level- I don't think it's right to dehumanize or torment anyone.
Click to expand...

In such acts, we only dehumanize ourselves. Rather than choosing to see ourselves in the mirrors of our opponents eyes, we refuse to look at them as equals because we hate what they make us become. We fail to find the compassion and understanding to change ourselves to tolerate them and their views simply reminds of this truth.

The short of it is:

Your negativity towards others is your fault, regardless of what the target of your ire is. You could decide at any time to be a better person or let it slide.
 
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sun rise

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
Buddha Dharma said:
I don't think it's right to dehumanize or torment anyone.
Click to expand...

I agree.

Revoltingest said:
How else would I know that I'm a dishonest homophobic stupid uncaring
cisgendered misogynistic privileged racist, deplorable white male Nazi?
I'm fortunate to be so well (& often) informed!
Click to expand...
Worse than all of that you worship the Van and are a libertarian. Actually the worst sin is not to recognize that you're wrong and I'm right.

74x12 said:
Leftists prefer to dehumanize their political or moral opponents as "bigots" etc.
Click to expand...

Rightists prefer to dehumanize their political or moral opponents as "bigots" etc. Every Insult the Right Uses to Troll Liberals, Explained
 
YmirGF

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
Sunstone said:
In today's politics, there are people on the Left who dehumanize people on the Right, and people on the Right who dehumanize people on the Left. There are even folks on both sides who claim only "the other side" dehumanizes people.

But there are also folks who claim they're being dehumanized when no one is dehumanizing them. Just because someone criticizes you or your opinions, actions, etc as, say, "stupid" or "vile" is most often no legitimate reason to claim you're being dehumanized. Dehumanization goes well beyond mere criticism of someone: If all you do is call me a "dolt" you are not yet dehumanizing me.

However, if you say or imply that I have no good qualities at all, or that I'm wholly bad or pure evil, then you are dehumanizing me. If you call me something that is generally considered to be monstrous, such as a "baby-killer", then you are dehumanizing me. The essence of dehumanizing is not the mere criticism of someone, but rather the reduction of someone to something that can be thought of as not requiring the basic respect and consideration that is morally due any human.


I think dehumanization is facilitated by echo-chambers. That is, by things like certain internet websites, radio programs, or cable TV channels where you only hear one side presented fairly and accurately, and where one side is largely or entirely unchallenged.
Click to expand...
I agree virtually 100%, @Sunstone

There is simply no valid reason to dehumanize anyone as the act of doing some cuts us off from our humanity. As a society we need our heroes and our monsters (and everyone in-between) because the polar opposites remind us of what we have the ability to become.

This point stood out to me in my seeking advice from the Mod crew on how to approach two difficult topics. "But there are also folks who claim they're being dehumanized when no one is dehumanizing them." As that point is one of my greatest concerns about both topics I have asked advice on.
 
9-10ths_Penguin

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
74x12 said:
Agreed. That's something leftists don't understand. Just because I as a Christian disagree with someone's sexual preference that doesn't mean I hate them or anything like that.
Click to expand...
Do you actually just “disagree with someone’s sexual preference,” or do you actively try to stop them from having legal rights?

If you do violence to someone - which is what laws against same-sex marriage do - then it’s understandable that people would assume that you hate them.

If you saw someone try to hurt a person’s kids over a disagreement with the parents, wouldn’t you assume there was some hate behind it?

Leftists prefer to dehumanize their political or moral opponents as "bigots" etc. rather than countering with solid arguments.
Click to expand...
So in your mind, bigots aren’t human? Weird: I can see why someone would take “bigot” as an insult, but I can’t see why it would be taken as dehumanizing.
 
Prometheus85

Prometheus85

Active Member
The fact that u feel the need to dehumanize someone because u disagree with them says more about you than the person u disagree with. It’s a form of lack of empathy; in fact, the whole point of dehumanizing someone is to deem the one in question not deserving any empathy.
 
Buddha Dharma

Buddha Dharma

Dharma Practitioner
74x12 said:
Agreed. That's something leftists don't understand. Just because I as a Christian disagree with someone's sexual preference that doesn't mean I hate them or anything like that. Leftists prefer to dehumanize their political or moral opponents as "bigots" etc. rather than countering with solid arguments.
Click to expand...

Actually what leftists are criticizing more than likely is the dehumanizing of the lgbt community and others that right wing lawmakers dress up as sound government. Also, the word bigot is not dehumanizing. Look it up. I don't write the definitions to words. There are other kinds of violence one perpetrate besides physical violence. This is getting into some of the tormenting of people I mentioned in the OP. It violates Ahimsa in a mental way. When lgbt teens commit suicide it's because their society made them feel unloved. Their society failed them. That is what leftists are getting at.
 
Buddha Dharma

Buddha Dharma

Dharma Practitioner
9-10ths_Penguin said:
If you saw someone try to hurt a person’s kids over a disagreement with the parents, wouldn’t you assume there was some hate behind it?
Click to expand...

Which speaking of kids. How about those forms of conversion therapy they try to use on minors? Plenty of testimony that they use shocking, induced vomiting, and other negative responses to 'sexually confused' behaviors.
 
74x12

74x12

Well-Known Member
Buddha Dharma said:
Actually what leftists are criticizing more than likely is the dehumanizing of the lgbt community and others that right wing lawmakers dress up as sound government. Also, the word bigot is not dehumanizing. Look it up. I don't write the definitions to words. There are other kinds of violence one perpetrate besides physical violence. This is getting into some of the tormenting of people I mentioned in the OP. It violates Ahimsa in a mental way. When lgbt teens commit suicide it's because their society made them feel unloved. Their society failed them. That is what leftists are getting at.
Click to expand...
Why should we care about your complaints about so called "mental torment" if you don't care about ours? Actually I was agreeing with your original comment to some extant. You said first that just because someone disagrees with the lgbt they shouldn't do violence etc. True. Now you're saying I'm "tormenting"? Did I torment you? You obviously just don't want to acknowledge the fact that the political left does the same thing.
 
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