Does Erotic Dance Degrade Women?

[Sunstone]

Just curious whether you think erotic dance (in dance clubs for pay) is degrading to women. If so, how and why is it degrading? If not, why not?

Is it degrading to some women and not to others? Can any work be degrading if the person who does it thinks it's degrading?

Who makes the standards for what is or is not degrading work? Does society make those standards? Does religion make those standards? Does the individual make those standards?

Is erotic dance any more degrading to women than working as maids or waitresses or low paid store clerks? If so, why?

If you believe erotic dance degrades women, do you believe it degrades all women or just the women who participate in it? And if you believe it degrades all women, then are you saying your opinion of women would be higher if there were no erotic dancers?

 

[kai]

i dont think its degrading to women when i have been in the presencre of erotic dancers i have always found it a little unsettling to be honest,i think its a bit degrading for the men watching

 

[ChrisP]

I think (an oxymoron?) that it's degrading to women when it's portrayed as such... the power a woman weilds over a man during a dance of this nature is often why they perform them. RE: strippers, that's a commercial question of supply and demand and probably lends itself to men viewing a stripper as "easy". How the strippers themselves feel about it would probably vary from woman to woman, but they don't have to supply if they don't want to.

Male stripping seems to be portrayed as a bit of fun in non-American western countries, because of the current female dominance here. American culture still has long way to go before the scale tips the other way (based on your media) but in NZ atm it's almost a crime to be a man who thinks for himself. From what I've seen the male strippers are treated in a far more degrading way by their female clients than the female strippers are treated by their male clients.

 

[Fallen Goddess]

What one finds erotic in dance or not is in the mind of the beholder. Some may find the type of dance I do to be erotic, others may find it to be an art.

 

[kaishii672]

I don't like erotic dancing.I don't even want 2 think about becoming an erotic dancer myself,2 tell u the truth!

 

[Topanga]

I think it depends on the setting. In a night club, if a woman does this type of dance, then I do find it is degrading. If a woman decides to do an erotic dance just for her husband in the privacy of their own home, then I think that this is not degrading.

 

[michel]

I personally used to think that erotic dancing did degrade women (because as far as I could see it was stereotyping women as men's sex objects, but having heard one or two women member's attitudes here, on this forum, I guess it is up to the individual - hence why I voted "No, it is not degrading to all women."......the emphasis being on the 'all'.

After all, if the woman who is doing the dancing enjoys doing it, then who am I to judge?

 

[Fluffy]

Just curious whether you think erotic dance (in dance clubs for pay) is degrading to women. If so, how and why is it degrading? If not, why not?

I say that an erotic dance might degrade women. If it does degrade women, then this does not automatically make it immoral.

It seems reasonable that the person who is suggesting that the attribute should be linked with the act should be the one to provide justification or evidence for their position. The burden of proof is hardly on the person who suggests it is not degrading. They are, afterall, hardly suggesting that it has some sort of beneficial impact.

Is it degrading to some women and not to others?

I think the general assertion about "erotic dancing" and other forms of adult entertainment is that it degrades both the specific woman involved as well as degrading the overall stereotype of women.

Can any work be degrading if the person who does it thinks it's degrading?

I might be misunderstanding you here but I do not see why a person's awareness that their job is degrading would mean that the job would cease to be degrading.

Who makes the standards for what is or is not degrading work? Does society make those standards? Does religion make those standards? Does the individual make those standards?

I suppose a fairly acceptable measure would be to analyse the effect the specified action had on either a) the individual involved or b) the view held by the majority towards the stereotype applied to that individual.

In this case, if a woman felt degraded after doing the dance then it is clear, as long as she is not lying, that the dance was degrading. It should be obvious, however, that one could not make the generalisation that "erotic dancing degrades women" from this.

Is erotic dance any more degrading to women than working as maids or waitresses or low paid store clerks? If so, why?

I do not know. However, this highlights an important point that it is likely that absolutely everything is degrading to some degree. It would be interesting to see where people would decide that a particular degree of degradation was too degrading and whether this was their sole justification for that act becoming immoral.

I think it depends on the setting. In a night club, if a woman does this type of dance, then I do find it is degrading. If a woman decides to do an erotic dance just for her husband in the privacy of their own home, then I think that this is not degrading.

What is it about the two that makes one degrading and the other not?

 

[Yerda]

I don't believe erotic dance is something inherently degrading.

 

[mingmty]

Mmmm... Erotic dancing for money is wrong, was not meant for that, but with your partner is perfectly ok.

 

[Booko]

Just curious whether you think erotic dance (in dance clubs for pay) is degrading to women. If so, how and why is it degrading? If not, why not?

What do you mean by erotic dance? Belly dancing? Topless joints?

 

[Krie]

ppl were born naked so showing flesh is not degrading. if it were so there are some bad bad children. so therefore showing skin and dancing around is not bad. that is like a child stripping off diapers and dancing around. and that is not bad is it??? now what is bad is the ppl that touch.

 

[Sunstone]

What do you mean by erotic dance? Belly dancing? Topless joints?

Any kind of erotic dance. If you see a difference between belly dancing and full nudity, please specify. The thing I had in mind was the erotic aspect of it, and not necessarily the amount of clothing worn.

 

[Sunstone]

I think it depends on the setting. In a night club, if a woman does this type of dance, then I do find it is degrading. If a woman decides to do an erotic dance just for her husband in the privacy of their own home, then I think that this is not degrading.

What's the crucial difference between the two settings? Is it that the woman in the second setting is in a relationship with the man, while the woman in the first setting is not? If so, how does that relationship change things?

 

[Sunstone]

Mmmm... Erotic dancing for money is wrong, was not meant for that, but with your partner is perfectly ok.

I'm not sure I understand. How does dancing for money make it wrong? What is it about dancing for money that you object to?

Also, do you think the sole motivation of a woman who dances "for money" is money?

 

[Booko]

Any kind of erotic dance. If you see a difference between belly dancing and full nudity, please specify. The thing I had in mind was the erotic aspect of it, and not necessarily the amount of clothing worn.

Oh, ok, that clarifies things.

I don't consider erotic anything to be degrading.

Though probably there is wiggle room between erotic and pornographic.

 

[Sunstone]

Let's take a look at the notion that erotic dance turns women into mere objects.

Kant said that we should always treat people as more than a means to an end. To treat a woman solely as a sex object would be to treat her as soley a means to an end. It would therefore be wrong in terms of Kantian ethics.

But Kant allowed in his ethics for treating people as means to an end, so long as we did not treat them as solely a means to an end. We should always treat people as an end in themselves, he said, even when they are also a means to an end for us.

If that is true, then treating a woman as a sex object is ok so long as we do not treat her merely as a sex object, but also as an end in herself, as a person in her own right.

 

[Sunstone]

Though probably there is wiggle room between erotic and pornographic.

I know this is a notoriously tough question, and a bit unfair to ask, since it has stumped even Supreme Court justices, but what is the difference between erotic and pornographic?

Let me suggest, once again, that erotic does not involve treating someone solely as a means to an end, while pornographic does indeed involve treating someone solely as a means to an end.

 

[Booko]

I know this is a notoriously tough question, and a bit unfair to ask, since it has stumped even Supreme Court justices, but what is the difference between erotic and pornographic?

If I could quantify that, I could make millions...

I suspect it will forever be in the eye of the beholder to some extent, and that's fine. There are grey areas all over life. It's better to come to some consensus than for every individual to make up their own mind for anyone but themselves.

Let me suggest, once again, that erotic does not involve treating someone solely as a means to an end, while pornographic does indeed involve treating someone solely as a means to an end.

That's precisely why I don't think erotica isn't inherently degrading.

 

[nutshell]

When you reduce any human being to a tool then yes, it is degrading. It seems so simple to me and I have a hard time understanding why some are OK with it. Obviously, I don't know everything (or else they don't).