Frank Goad
Well-Known Member
Does God always get what he wants?I ask this because of Isa. 46:10.
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Does God always get what he wants?
- Thread starter Frank Goad
- Start date
Which One?
Frank Goad
Well-Known Member
The Christian one.
The Christian one.
Hmmm... I have no idea then.
dybmh
דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
Does God always get what he wants?I ask this because of Isa. 46:10.
Definitely. What about this verse brings the question?
dybmh
דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
The Christian one.
It would be good to consider this Isaiah's god, since it's in the book of Isaiah.
This is the solitary God who is creator of everything.
Frank Goad
Well-Known Member
I guess it is just how I read it.You are right.
Exaltist Ethan
Bridging the Gap Between Believers and Skeptics
I am going to pretend that my beliefs don't exist and I am answering this as if I were a Christian.
10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:
I feel like without proper context this quote from Isaiah may not make as much sense.
Although, what I will say, to your question, and answering as if I were Christian, I would say that according to scripture, God limited his free will to give us free will. God already knows that if he acts in a way that would reveal his presence, that would remove our free will because people would then have to believe in God. So instead of imposing in any direct, accessible way to Him, we are left with what his creation has and imposes that will instead onto us.
This may come a bit unorthodox but as a Christian I would be happy with the rise of nonbelievers because this would show indefinite proof that humans have the free will to choose to believe in a higher power. God has limited his own free will in order to give his creation, humans, their own free will. This is the one advantage we have over God, and makes God jealous of his creation. Thus we can conceive the idea of a jealous, Abrahamic God.
Again, I don't believe this, but I think this is what a typical Christian would say, based on how I understand them. I get the fact that most Christians want to preach the gospel and evangelize, because they want to save people from the torment of Hell. But I would also say that most Christians would say that God wants us to believe in our own free will, rather than it being forced, because if we willingly believe in this, it actually means so much more to Him than God just revealing himself directly to us.
I hope I'm getting the Abrahamic or Christian view point correctly, even if I don't agree with it.
In the KJV of the Bible, Isaiah 46:10 says this:Does God always get what he wants?I ask this because of Isa. 46:10.
10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:
I feel like without proper context this quote from Isaiah may not make as much sense.
Although, what I will say, to your question, and answering as if I were Christian, I would say that according to scripture, God limited his free will to give us free will. God already knows that if he acts in a way that would reveal his presence, that would remove our free will because people would then have to believe in God. So instead of imposing in any direct, accessible way to Him, we are left with what his creation has and imposes that will instead onto us.
This may come a bit unorthodox but as a Christian I would be happy with the rise of nonbelievers because this would show indefinite proof that humans have the free will to choose to believe in a higher power. God has limited his own free will in order to give his creation, humans, their own free will. This is the one advantage we have over God, and makes God jealous of his creation. Thus we can conceive the idea of a jealous, Abrahamic God.
Again, I don't believe this, but I think this is what a typical Christian would say, based on how I understand them. I get the fact that most Christians want to preach the gospel and evangelize, because they want to save people from the torment of Hell. But I would also say that most Christians would say that God wants us to believe in our own free will, rather than it being forced, because if we willingly believe in this, it actually means so much more to Him than God just revealing himself directly to us.
I hope I'm getting the Abrahamic or Christian view point correctly, even if I don't agree with it.
Does God always get what he wants?I ask this because of Isa. 46:10.
In that chapter, the God of Israel essentially says three things: (1) other deities are powerless and burdensome, (2) he easily accomplishes his plans, and (3) his plan is to deliver Israel. All in all, it is not so much that God always gets what he wants at every moment, rather, it is that God will surely give Israel what he wants for them—deliverance, splendor, and ease.
Does God always get what he wants?I ask this because of Isa. 46:10.
Another question? Why would God "want"?
dybmh
דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
Because if we have something, "desires", and God does not have those things, then God is lacking.
Ashoka
श्री कृष्णा शरणं मम
What could God possibly desire? The entire universe is His. You could make the argument that he wants our bhakti (devotion) but even then, that is more for us than it is for Him.
dybmh
דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
A relationship.
Do you view that different gospels have different representations of God?
dybmh
דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
Technically, no, I don't think so. But some people reading the book of John might consider Jesus the creator, and that Jesus was with God in the beginning. That would mean God was not alone, in theory. I'm not speaking for all Christians, and I don't think the book of John actually says that. But it could be read that way, and I think some do read it that way.
But in Isaiah, it's clear, God is alone and is the sole creator.
I understand now. OT/NT
I would assume that the Abrahamic deity is beyond mere mortal reax.
Treasure Hunter
Well-Known Member
God is divided against himself - new vs old. It’s vital to realize this.Does God always get what he wants?I ask this because of Isa. 46:10.
Treasure Hunter
Well-Known Member
God has no desires for this world or for the souls in this world in your eyes? All the evil and suffering - let it persist or even worsen for all he cares?
Ashoka
श्री कृष्णा शरणं मम
Yes, like I said, you could argue that he wants a relationship. But again, God is in want and in need of nothing. He is above desire, but, at the same time, he is also desire itself.
It's not that he doesn't care. God is love. Like I said, you could say that, if God did desire, it would be our devotion and our love right back. But desire implies that there is a need lacking. God doesn't lack for anything, in my opinion.
"While contemplating on the objects of the senses, one develops attachment to them. Attachment leads to desire, and from desire arises anger." - Bhagavad Gita 2.62
Although I am not a Buddhist, I am in agreement that desire and craving leads to suffering.
So do I believe God wants or desires? No. However, one can love without desire. Desire is attachment. Love is not. Hence why I personally believe that, while God is love and loves, he has no need to desire. I hope that makes sense.