Does God forgive soldiers?

[averageJOE]

For abdicating personal responsibility for their acts, believing their superiors can, Christlike, take their sins upon them.
This allows them to perform the most heinous acts in the belief that no sin attaches to them.

Are you talking about ALL soldiers or just certain ones?

 

[Valjean]

Don't all soldiers agree to follow orders?
If a soldier refused to shell or bomb a city, knowing that innocent civilians would be killed thereby, he'd be useless and unreliable as a tool to project power.

 

[sojourner]

For abdicating personal responsibility for their acts, believing their superiors can, Christlike, take their sins upon them.
This allows them to perform the most heinous acts in the belief that no sin attaches to them.

Ok...
What acts (specifically as soldiers) have they done (or failed to do) that require forgiveness? Are you talking about killing? How are we sure that they have not taken responsibility for that and asked forgiveness? Are we 100% sure that killing during a war is a sin of the individual, and not a sin of the human condition, for which we all need to ask forgiveness? We all pay taxes which support the military effort. We are no less a cog in the machine than the foot soldier in the trenches. When we are at war, *WE* are at war -- not just the soldiers. When the military kills, *WE* kill. Have we accepted our responsibility in this? Have we asked forgiveness?

Further, are we 100% sure that war deaths are sin, strictly speaking? The 10 commandments lists murder. I'm not so sure that war deaths (self defense) are murder...

 

[RitalinO.D.]

Don't all soldiers agree to follow orders?
If a soldier refused to shell or bomb a city, knowing that innocent civilians would be killed thereby, he'd be useless and unreliable as a tool to project power.

By this comment, it is quite clear to me you have ZERO clue how the US military is supposed to operate in a war zone.

If you understand anything I say, in any thread I post in, understand this...If any member of an American fighting force has ANY indication that an attack will without doubt cause civilian casualties, they are NOTsupposed to engage the target. Period. Even if it means the intended enemy target escapes.

Does collateral damage occur? Sure it does. Is it on purpose? 99 times out of 100 absolutely not.

I won't deny there are the "rogues" who feel they can do what they want when they want, however that is not by any means "Normal Operating Procedure".

 

[Luminous]

Ok...
What acts (specifically as soldiers) have they done (or failed to do) that require forgiveness? Are you talking about killing? How are we sure that they have not taken responsibility for that and asked forgiveness? Are we 100% sure that killing during a war is a sin of the individual, and not a sin of the human condition, for which we all need to ask forgiveness? We all pay taxes which support the military effort. We are no less a cog in the machine than the foot soldier in the trenches. When we are at war, *WE* are at war -- not just the soldiers. When the military kills, *WE* kill. Have we accepted our responsibility in this? Have we asked forgiveness?

Further, are we 100% sure that war deaths are sin, strictly speaking? The 10 commandments lists murder. I'm not so sure that war deaths (self defense) are murder...

murder in general is a sin of the human condition.
*WE* are not killing people. though we are guilty of allowing them to do so; War is like when I self-defensively kill all mosquitos I see, they are all capable of murdering me. Abortion in self-defense.

 

[sojourner]

murder in general is a sin of the human condition.
*WE* are not killing people. though we are guilty of allowing them to do so; War is like when I self-defensively kill all mosquitos I see, they are all capable of murdering me. Abortion in self-defense.

And we are told that God forgives -- indeed has forgiven -- that sin.

 

[TheGodHypothesis]

Their job is to kill whomever they're told to and destroy their property, and they attract more danger than they avert.
They abdicate moral responsibility for their acts. For them the only sin is failure to obey orders.
Such a mindset is hard to forgive.

Passive resistance to the NAZIs? Try it. You'd be dead and will have done nothing spiritual or efficacious. You'd just be a dead fool as The Wolf swept across Europe murdering everyone in its path. Do you really suppose that anything other than bombs and bullets would have stopped them? Your passificm is cowardice. Cowardice to refuse to admit that violence is sometimes effective in an attempt to appear " above it all".

 

[Kriya Yogi]

Passive resistance to the NAZIs? Try it. You'd be dead and will have done nothing spiritual or efficacious. You'd just be a dead fool as The Wolf swept across Europe murdering everyone in its path. Do you really suppose that anything other than bombs and bullets would have stopped them? Your passificm is cowardice. Cowardice to refuse to admit that violence is sometimes effective in an attempt to appear " above it all".

I agree with this. This is what is known as a righteous fight. Some are so evil that prayers and words will not change their actions. Only violence can be used on these types.

 

[Luminous]

Passive resistance to the NAZIs? Try it. You'd be dead and will have done nothing spiritual or efficacious. You'd just be a dead fool as The Wolf swept across Europe murdering everyone in its path. Do you really suppose that anything other than bombs and bullets would have stopped them? Your passificm is cowardice. Cowardice to refuse to admit that violence is sometimes effective in an attempt to appear " above it all".

passive resistance such as what? education and friendship? you would be foolish to attemp violence on the Nazi's if you were weaker than them.

 

[Kriya Yogi]

passive resistance such as what? education and friendship? you would be foolish to attemp violence on the Nazi's if you were weaker than them.

It would be foolish and cowardice if you had any sort if rivalrous power and didn't do anything, except let them kill and turn a cold shoulder.

 

[Corkscrew]

Does God forgive those who benefit from the death of others, e.g. wars fought in the past to secure property and freedoms that we now enjoy? The soldiers had to do the dirty work, now we enjoy the fruits of their sacrifice. Who do you think God has more respect for?

 

[McBell]

Does God forgive those who benefit from the death of others,

Gonna have to go with yes on this one.
Especially given that god ordered his followers to do just that....

 

[Luminous]

It would be foolish and cowardice if you had any sort if rivalrous power and didn't do anything, except let them kill and turn a cold shoulder.

obviously.

 

[PhAA]

Is Jihad and the Crusades acceptable? Do they really have the blessing of god or allah?

 

[Nisou Kitsune]

Is Jihad and the Crusades acceptable? Do they really have the blessing of god or allah?

The Crusades were simply the Pope and church authorities justifying the mass conversion of millions of people at sword point and land grabbing in the process.

Jihads, I would say that the internal struggle jihads that I have heard from the various muslims on this forum is accepted in the Quran.

However, killing in the name of any God is a perversion of that God.

Unless you worship Gods of War. Then it gets kind of murky.

 

[PhAA]

The Crusades were simply the Pope and church authorities justifying the mass conversion of millions of people at sword point and land grabbing in the process.

I know. I just thought it might help to answer the question.

Jihads, I would say that the internal struggle jihads that I have heard from the various muslims on this forum is accepted in the Quran.

However, killing in the name of any God is a perversion of that God.

Unless you worship Gods of War. Then it gets kind of murky.

So Muslims may be forgiven?

 

[Nisou Kitsune]

Forgiven for what? Their own personal struggles, or their own jihads? There is nothing to forgive there, because AFAIK, the Quran tells you to wage jihad on certain internal things (DISCLAIMER: I totally do not claim to know everything about Islam, so please, please, if you know more, step in. Royal!! I need you ) I think you can equate their personal jihad as being an internal debate between desire and righteousness.

Now, the "jihad" that the extremists are waging against the US, well... you can make an argument that there is no need to be "forgiven" since they wholeheartedly believe that Allah backs them up in their fight.

 

[PhAA]

Forgiven for what? Their own personal struggles, or their own jihads? There is nothing to forgive there, because AFAIK, the Quran tells you to wage jihad on certain internal things (DISCLAIMER: I totally do not claim to know everything about Islam, so please, please, if you know more, step in. Royal!! I need you ) I think you can equate their personal jihad as being an internal debate between desire and righteousness.

Now, the "jihad" that the extremists are waging against the US, well... you can make an argument that there is no need to be "forgiven" since they wholeheartedly believe that Allah backs them up in their fight.

oh, okay. my bad.

 

[Nisou Kitsune]

(((Hugs))) no my bads, man. :3 :flower:

 

[Where Is God]

killing in the name of

Rage Against the Machine ftw