Does God forgive soldiers?

[littledb]

Wow. Grace is forgiveness BEFORE the fact. We are saved by Grace alone.

 

[Valjean]

I hold both responsible -- the perpetrators for the actual act and the leaders for issuing an order with the expectation that the order would result in the act

 

[sandandfoam]

I hold both responsible -- the perpetrators for the actual act and the leaders for issuing an order with the expectation that the order would result in the act

I think that's fair enough

 

[McBell]

It's the fault of politicians that soldiers kill people.

I disagree.
A soldier makes up his own mind whether to kill or not to kill.
To blame a politician who is hundreds, if not thousands, of miles away is nothing more tan allowing the soldier to shrug off responsibility for his actions.

 

[sandandfoam]

I disagree.
A soldier makes up his own mind whether to kill or not to kill.
To blame a politician who is hundreds, if not thousands, of miles away is nothing more tan allowing the soldier to shrug off responsibility for his actions.

I'm not allowing the soldier shrug off responsibility. I am arguing that responsibility extendes beyond him, more - I'm arguing that politicians create the situations into which soldiers are sent and as such are ultimately responsible. This does not lessen the responsibility of an individual soldier.

 

[PolyHedral]

I disagree.
A soldier makes up his own mind whether to kill or not to kill.
To blame a politician who is hundreds, if not thousands, of miles away is nothing more tan allowing the soldier to shrug off responsibility for his actions.

In the World Wars, where conscription was in effect, not killing was suicide. Literally: it was insubordination, and would get you court-martialled and shot.

 

[McBell]

In the World Wars, where conscription was in effect, not killing was suicide. Literally: it was insubordination, and would get you court-martialled and shot.

And yet there is still a choice...

 

[Marble]

Maybe God will forgive the soldiers but will God forgive their commanders, especially that politicans who send others onto war while sitting safely at home?

 

[outhouse]

I say if there is a deity

then he would forgive

after all we are omnivorous and it is a nature to kill

 

[averageJOE]

People seem to forget that soldiers are not the only servicemen who carry guns.

 

[Chisti]

I'm not allowing the soldier shrug off responsibility. I am arguing that responsibility extendes beyond him, more - I'm arguing that politicians create the situations into which soldiers are sent and as such are ultimately responsible. This does not lessen the responsibility of an individual soldier.

I agree for the most part, but how about soldiers who go beyond merely following orders? Like soldiers humiliating 'enemies' or torturing them under some pretext. In such cases, it's apparent that soldiers exercise their free will to do something abominable, and the 'following orders' excuse wouldn't exactly work here.

 

[HiddenDjinn]

There is no explicit command in Jewish scriptures not to kill. Yeah, I'll hear the Xtians do "Thou Shalt Not Kill"...That's a mistranslation. As a matter of fact, there are times where we were commanded to kill "all that **** on the wall" of a city/region/whatever.

 

[Valjean]

Maybe God will forgive the soldiers but will God forgive their commanders, especially that politicans who send others onto war while sitting safely at home?

But the soldier is the immediate, efficient cause. He's the more culpable of the two, I'd say.
If i told you to go shoot someone walking down the street, and you did so, whom would God be more likely to forgive?

We have a duty to evaluate our actions and refuse any we judge wrong. To abdicate moral agency -- if such is even morally possible, puts us in the same moral category as a dog or cat, or perhaps a toaster.

I agree for the most part, but how about soldiers who go beyond merely following orders? Like soldiers humiliating 'enemies' or torturing them under some pretext. In such cases, it's apparent that soldiers exercise their free will to do something abominable, and the 'following orders' excuse wouldn't exactly work here.

I find the whole idea of armed warriors abominable. Even within the accepted rules of war I see his actions as immoral.

Why does a soldier have any duty to follow orders in the first place? What gives his "superiors" the right to usurp his "free will?" What gives them the right to determine whom the soldier's enemies are?

"What if they gave a war and nobody came?"

 

[kai]

Does God forgive soldiers? They are simply doing their job in order to protect us.

which God are your talking about? and why wouldn't he? is there some particular reason why he wouldn't? some scripture or doctrine that says he wouldn't? has this god ever condoned military action? if so isn't that a clue?

 

[Chisti]

But the soldier is the immediate, efficient cause. He's the more culpable of the two, I'd say.
If i told you to go shoot someone walking down the street, and you did so, whom would God be more likely to forgive?

We have a duty to evaluate our actions and refuse any we judge wrong. To abdicate moral agency -- if such is even morally possible, puts us in the same moral category as a dog or cat, or perhaps a toaster.



I find the whole idea of armed warriors abominable. Even within the accepted rules of war I see his actions as immoral.

Why does a soldier have any duty to follow orders in the first place? What gives his "superiors" the right to usurp his "free will?" What gives them the right to determine whom the soldier's enemies are?

"What if they gave a war and nobody came?"

I agree but if the soldier refuses, he'll be in jail for disobeying orders. So out of fear, the solider has to follow orders.

 

[Valjean]

Virtue's the choice to do right despite fear of opprobrium or punishment.

 

[kai]

I agree for the most part, but how about soldiers who go beyond merely following orders? Like soldiers humiliating 'enemies' or torturing them under some pretext. In such cases, it's apparent that soldiers exercise their free will to do something abominable, and the

'following orders' excuse wouldn't exactly work here.

thats why it doesnt work.Its not a defence ,when the order or action is manifestly unlawful. Whats your point in all this?

 

[Pegg]

Does God forgive soldiers? They are simply doing their job in order to protect us.

the nazi's were only doing their job too... when the commanders were on trial for war crimes they could not use the excuse that they were only following orders.

but in answer to the question, like anyone else, if they are repentant then yes of course he forgives them

 

[Chisti]

thats why it doesnt work.Its not a defence ,when the order or action is manifestly unlawful. Whats your point in all this?

Sorry, I don't get you.

 

[Chisti]

the nazi's were only doing their job too... when the commanders were on trial for war crimes they could not use the excuse that they were only following orders.

I don't know about the nazis, but recently an Iraq war veteran gave an interview where he said he was forced by his superiors to torture prisoners, even children, for information. He said even though he found it hard to do it, he had to do it because he was afraid of disobeying orders.