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Does God need gender?
- Thread starter Heloise
- Start date
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
Yes, but you're ignoring the fact that the mother of that Son (as He was begotten in the flesh, was Mary and not God's "wife.")
I've often wondered the same thing. Then again, you and I believe that all human beings were spiritually begotten prior to the creation of this earth, and I don't think there is any reason for us to assume that the sex act was required in order for our spirits to have been created. In other words, a nine-month gestation period and a birth would have hardly been necessary for God and his female counterpart to have produced spirit offspring, so why would intercourse have been a prerequisite for the process to begin? I think it's actually kind of a stretch to assume that it was.
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
Define "spirit." Don't try to explain what is meant by "God is spirit." Just define the word, so we know exactly what you believe spirit is. Also, could you explain how it would be possible for us to worship Him in any other way except spiritually?
Avoice1C
the means are the ends
Because He is Spirit not gendered.
Avoice1C
the means are the ends
Spirit is not corporeal, it is energy without gender. Most Bibles say in Spirit and in truth. Rather than spiritually. I'm not sure why I quoted spiritually. We must worship God with the energy within us.
Cougarbear
Member
Cougarbear
Member
Cougarbear
Member
Cougarbear
Member
Cougarbear- Get used to it
Unless I get booted from this forum like the last one. The thing is, I didn't do anything to get the boot. It was full of very far leftist and they didn't like a believer in God that also denounced socialism and promoting capitalism. They couldn't logically defeat my reasoning Hope this one accepts all.
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
Okay, I can more or less go along with that, but do you believe Jesus was God? You're a Christian. I assume that you do. So if God is spirit, and spirit is not corporeal, and Jesus was corporeal, when how could Jesus be God?
At any rate, I would agree that if you worship God in spirit, you are worshiping Him with the energy within you. I personally think of spirit as implying life, i.e. a life force, that which makes us self-aware and causes us to be drawn to our Creator. I don't think that the statement that God is spirit is intended to say mean that God is just an invisible force. I see "spirit" as being one of His attributes, and not a definition of Him per se.
Cougarbear
Member
Cougarbear- I used to think the same way. But, since our Heavenly Parents are male and female because we are made in their image, They too have all the parts we have. simply much more efficient and it will be interesting to find out how that all works. After all, we know that ants can lay there and turn out thousands and thousands of baby ants at a time. Maybe that's how it's done. And, time isn't going to be an issue in the Celestial Kingdom. We know that not even a hair on our head will be lost. Why the tools of procreation?
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
It's pretty hard to get booted from this forum. As a very, very long-time poster here, I will give you some unsolicited advice: Don't proselytize and don't comment on the moderators' actions. Both of those things will get you booted. Otherwise, you're good to offer a dissenting opinion. (BYU-Utah sports are off-limits, though, unless Utah wins the game. In that case, you may wish to stay away for a few days.Cougarbear- Get used to it
)Cougarbear
Member
Cougarbear- Jesus is not spirit only. He is resurrected meaning he has a body of flesh and bones as the men who sat an ate with him did. Jesus even told them they shouldn't look surprised that he has a body of flesh and bone. Not just spirit. I think there is a translation challenge with that verse. And, why do we suppose spirits aren't gendered too? Where is that in Bible?
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
Cougarbear, I don't know if you are familiar with the Clementine Homilies or not. My former bishop, who, like me, has an interest in the early Christian Church and how it fell into apostasy, recommended to me that I read it, which I did. The Clementine Homilies is a Jewish Christian document based on a second-century source. In it, the Apostle Peter is speaking to a non-believer by the name of Simon. Simon wants to know if Peter actually believes that God has a human form and that mankind was literally created in His image. Here's how their conversation goes:
And Simon said: "I should like to know, Peter, if you really believe that the shape of man has been molded after the shape of God."
And Peter said: "I am really quite certain, Simon, that this is the case... It is the shape of the just God. For He has shape, and He has every limb primarily and solely for beauty's sake, and not for use. For He has not eyes that He may see with them; for He sees on every side, since He is incomparably more brilliant in His body than the visual spirit which is in us, and He is more splendid than everything, so that in comparison with Him the light of the sun may be reckoned as darkness. Nor has He ears that He may hear; for He hears, perceives, moves, energizes, acts on every side. But He has the most beautiful shape on account of man, that the pure in heart, may be able to see Him, that they may rejoice because they suffered. For He molded man in His own shape as in the greatest seal, in order that he may be the ruler and lord of all, and that all may be subject to him."
That's pretty much how I see the issue of God's gender.
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Sha'irullah
رسول الآلهة
Male and females are vastly different in every way possible that it makes their behavior very distinguished and easy for creating archetypes. There is a reason why when creating fiction we do not make characters male and female arbitrarily. The symbolism of the genders offers vastly different context and meaning when applied in religion as religion is a human experience.
Cougarbear
Member
Cougarbear- To me, whatever this writing came from sounds more like the confusion of apostates that made up the Nicene Creed and those afterwards. A God so big he can fill the universe yet so small he can dwell in your heart. If he molded man in his own shape to be like him, why do we have eyes and ears then? And, how did the resurrected God of Israel, Jesus Christ, Lord Jehovah, walk, talk, see and hear the men he sat down with and ate food managed that if what this writing was true?
Then, we have Revelation 9:20, "The rest of mankind, who were not killed by these plagues, did not repent of the works of their hands, so as not to worship demons, and the idols of gold and of silver and of brass and of stone and of wood, which can neither see nor hear nor walk...
There are many other scriptures in Isaiah, Daniel, Psalms speak of the same concept. That's why I follow the Prophet Joseph Smith and his revelation about the Godhead and what he saw and gave to us to follow. There are lots of artifacts of the past from ghost writers that people get fooled by like the gospel of Thomas or Mary or Judas. We should have a firm testimony and stand on it. What do you think?
Cougarbear
Member
Cougarbear- Seems deceptive to me. Why would God wish to deceive us? No, I think he appears with all body, parts and passions because he has all that. I see no reason that it's beneath God to be able to procreate. Why is it that people think this?
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
My understanding of the passage I quoted was that it was referring to God the Father. I think that when people say that God has no gender, they are speaking of God the Father, and not of His Son, Jesus Christ. I personally feel that it's pretty much fruitless for us to try to figure out such things as how God created our spirits. All I was suggesting was that the creation of our spirits would not seem to require that someone be pregnant for nine months and then give birth. If God was once as we are now, He would have definitely used His eyes, ears, mouth, hands, feet, etc. as we do at that time.
Personally, I find early Christian documents to be invaluable in understanding the 1st and 2nd century Church. As many Church leaders have said, we need to embrace truth, regardless of its source. I certainly don't think we have an monopoly on truth, and I'm not sure what we can expect to gain by sticking our heads in the sand and refusing to consider information that is available to us (such as the Clementine Homilies). I'm pretty such that LDS scholars at BYU make extensive use of them in trying to understand the Great Apostasy.
(I'm starting to think that you and I may have a few differences of opinion other than our BYU-Utah rivalry.
I consider myself to be an active, believing Latter-day Saint, but you may have noticed that to the right of my avatar and under my user name, I describe myself as "Not your average Mormon." You might also have noticed my "signature" (the quote from Rudyard Kipling). It says a lot about me. It implies (or is meant to) that I think for myself and don't just buy into everything I hear spoken from the pulpil. At any rate, I may well be one of those terrible "leftists" you mentioned in another post. That doesn't mean we can't see eye-to-eye on a great many things. But it probably does mean that we're going to occasionally be at odds with one another. Hopefully we'll be able to focus on our common ground and not get too awfully worked up when we disagree.)
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Avoice1C
the means are the ends
Because the Bible says God the "Father" is Spirit and must be worshiped in Spirit and Truth. Jesus was flesh while on this earth and became God when he was raised from the dead. IMO