does God prefer science and secular ethics to religion?

[Eddi]

I believe in God, however:

I believe that science is a better way to understand the universe than religion as it actually investigates the reality of existence

I believe that ethics and philosophy are a better means of telling us how to behave than anything any religion can offer although for practical purposes the two approaches have much in common

I believe that science and secular ethics make anything religion can offer in those fields look crude, primitive, and arbitrary

I think that God thinks this too

Does this sound reasonable?

I believe that it is because I believe that God values reason and truth and wants us to know these

I think that organised religion upsets God, especially when it goes too far and goes against truth and liberty (as it very often does)

 

[Quintessence]

I think that it is very trendy to crap on religion these days (as well as the humanities just in general) and fail to appreciate what they bring to the table. I pay such notions about as much mind as it deserves, which is very little. The failure to recognize the value of the humanities (religion or otherwise) - the very study of what it means to be human - is... well, it is very telling.

 

[LuisDantas]

I believe in God, however:

I believe that science is a better way to understand the universe than religion as it actually investigates the reality of existence

I believe that ethics and philosophy are a better means of telling us how to behave than anything any religion can offer although for practical purposes the two approaches have much in common

I believe that science and secular ethics make anything religion can offer in those fields look crude, primitive, and arbitrary

I think that God thinks this too

Does this sound reasonable?

I believe that it is because I believe that God values reason and truth and wants us to know these

I think that organised religion upsets God, especially when it goes too far and goes against truth and liberty (as it very often does)

I think that we all ought to acknowledge that there is a wide variation of meaning, merit and honesty among the movements that are called religions.

Many of the most influential are questionable at best, often presenting themselves as some form of oracle of transcendental wisdom to be passively received and actively obeyed when they are anything but.

Science doesn't really serve itself to such blatant dishonesty... but then again, it does not attempt to address the scope that proper religion would, either.

So, if you adopt an inherently meritorious definition of god (as you did here in this OP), then of course a generally defined "religion" will look bad by comparison.

IMO we should all consider how much personal responsibility should be a necessary component of healthy religion.

 

[SalixIncendium]

Why do you think God thinks? With what apparatus would God think?

 

[Eddi]

I think that it is very trendy to crap on religion these days (as well as the humanities just in general) and fail to appreciate what they bring to the table. I pay such notions about as much mind as it deserves, which is very little. The failure to recognize the value of the humanities (religion or otherwise) - the very study of what it means to be human - is... well, it is very telling.

I'm all too familiar about what religion brings to the table when it comes to the study of what it means to be human.......

For the most part it would have us as ignorant, grovelling, subservient wretches

There are exceptions but I think that is the norm and that for the most part religions are anti-human

 

[Eddi]

Why do you think God thinks? With what apparatus would God think?

I think there is a transcendent element to God that is capable of holding opinions

But I don't think that "think" is really the right word to use as there is no brain involved, but it is close

 

[RestlessSoul]

I believe that science, philosophy and religion all have a part to play in helping us understand the world and our place in it. I also believe that ultimate reality defies all human understanding.

As for what God wants or believes, I think the most I can hope for is knowledge of his will for me, in the here and now. I think He wants me to do the next right thing, and I need His help with that sometimes.

 

[Eddi]

I also believe that ultimate reality defies all human understanding.

Me too!

I think we can get to grips with the most immediate reality that we experience but that ultimate reality is beyond science as we cannot know it

 

[SalixIncendium]

I think there is a transcendent element to God that is capable of holding opinions

But I don't think that "think" is really the right word to use as there is no brain involved, but it is close

Thanks. I think one should learn from any resource at one's disposal...science, philosophy, scripture, contemplation, etc.... and use these resources to formulate an informed worldview.

 

[Eddi]

Thanks. I think one should learn from any resource at one's disposal...science, philosophy, scripture, contemplation, etc.... and use these resources to formulate an informed worldview.

I totally agree

Fiction can be thought provoking too, and can contain truths

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

I believe in God, however:
I believe that science is a better way to understand the universe than religion as it actually investigates the reality of existence
I believe that ethics and philosophy are a better means of telling us how to behave than anything any religion can offer although for practical purposes the two approaches have much in common
I believe that science and secular ethics make anything religion can offer in those fields look crude, primitive, and arbitrary
I think that God thinks this too
Does this sound reasonable?
I believe that it is because I believe that God values reason and truth and wants us to know these
I think that organised religion upsets God, especially when it goes too far and goes against truth and liberty (as it very often does)

This sounds like theistic humanism, which is largely indistinguishable from the atheistic version apart from the god references. Drop those, and your words are the same as mine would be. I'd have reduced it to "I believe that science is a better way to understand the universe than religion as it actually investigates the reality of existence. I believe that ethics and philosophy are a better means of telling us how to behave than anything any religion can offer although for practical purposes the two approaches have much in common. I believe that science and secular ethics make anything religion can offer in those fields look crude, primitive, and arbitrary."

You and I aren't that different, except that I don't talk about gods. Nature assumes that role as our sacred source and sustenance, and the source of mystery. Isn't that what you are calling God after all?

I think that it is very trendy to crap on religion these days

More than just "these days" and more than just trendy. Religion has been taking it on the chin for centuries now, ever since the Enlightenment and the advent of secular democracies with freedom of and from religion, but especially in the last few decades with the rise of the modern telecommunications and later, the Internet. The news is replete with stories of the failures, bigotries, and hypocrisies of religion, televangelists, and priests, of LGBTQ oppression, book banning, and Handmaid's Tale theology becoming the law of the land.

Look at how the entertainment media depict religion and clergy to see what the broader culture thinks of these things. When was the last time you remember either being shown in a favorable light? The Exorcist?

The theists have lost control of the discussion, and now are hearing what was largely suppressed before, and they are shocked, offended, and unprepared.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

This sounds like theistic humanism, ...

Or religious naturalism.

 

[F1fan]

I believe in God, however:

I believe that science is a better way to understand the universe than religion as it actually investigates the reality of existence

I believe that ethics and philosophy are a better means of telling us how to behave than anything any religion can offer although for practical purposes the two approaches have much in common

I believe that science and secular ethics make anything religion can offer in those fields look crude, primitive, and arbitrary

I think that God thinks this too

Does this sound reasonable?

I believe that it is because I believe that God values reason and truth and wants us to know these

I think that organised religion upsets God, especially when it goes too far and goes against truth and liberty (as it very often does)

I have to wonder what use a belief in a God has in your framework. From what I can tell it's little more than a place keeper for something, perhaps tradition, or an ideal self, or uncertainty. Since belief in Gods is so prevalent in most societies I am curious how and why any believer ends up behaving they same way, and if thyy are aware they adopted this behavior without thinking and reflecting. You have obvously pondered the tradition of belief, but hold on to God as a valid idea for some reason.

 

[Eddi]

I have to wonder what use a belief in a God has in your framework. From what I can tell it's little more than a place keeper for something, perhaps tradition, or an ideal self, or uncertainty. Since belief in Gods is so prevalent in most societies I am curious how and why any believer ends up behaving they same way, and if thyy are aware they adopted this behavior without thinking and reflecting. You have obvously pondered the tradition of belief, but hold on to God as a valid idea for some reason.

For me God is primarily a metaphysical construct

Although I also have compelling personal reasons to believe in it

But to me it is a metaphysical construct

 

[F1fan]

For me God is primarily a metaphysical construct

How is it useful?

I had a broken tire pump, and I keep it because it represents what a working tire pump should do, how is THAT useful?

Although I also have compelling personal reasons to believe in it

Go on.

But to me it is a metaphysical construct

Go on.

 

[Eddi]

How is it useful?

It fills in the gaps and makes things make sense

I don't care if others don't believe in it, that's their business not mine

Likewise I don't have to justify myself to anyone

 

[Link]

I believe in God, however:

I believe that science is a better way to understand the universe than religion as it actually investigates the reality of existence

I believe that ethics and philosophy are a better means of telling us how to behave than anything any religion can offer although for practical purposes the two approaches have much in common

I believe that science and secular ethics make anything religion can offer in those fields look crude, primitive, and arbitrary

I think that God thinks this too

Does this sound reasonable?

I believe that it is because I believe that God values reason and truth and wants us to know these

I think that organised religion upsets God, especially when it goes too far and goes against truth and liberty (as it very often does)

Ethics and philosophy can be guided or misguided. We aren't infallible. God can guide through philosophy and ethics. I believe that is the proper approach to religion, it is to gain insights and not just blindly attribute to God what we don't know for certain.

 

[SalixIncendium]

I had a broken tire pump, and I keep it because it represents what a working tire pump should do, how is THAT useful?

It lets all the old stale air out of your tire.

 

[Quintessence]

I'm all too familiar about what religion brings to the table when it comes to the study of what it means to be human.......

For the most part it would have us as ignorant, grovelling, subservient wretches

There are exceptions but I think that is the norm and that for the most part religions are anti-human

It... it seems you have a deeply cynical view on religion that I cannot share. I might have shared it once, back when. I know too much about religion these days to agree with you.

The theists have lost control of the discussion, and now are hearing what was largely suppressed before, and they are shocked, offended, and unprepared.

The only thing this theist find shocking, offensive, and often unprepared for is continued ignorance about theology and religion from a global, multicultural perspective... in spite of living in a global, multicultural society. So much for the enlightened benefits of modern telecommunication.

 

[Eddi]

It... it seems you have a deeply cynical view on religion that I cannot share. I might have shared it once, back when. I know too much about religion these days to agree with you.

I think that what I said goes for established, institutional religions

I think many religious practices and beliefs are good and beneficial

Power does of course corrupt

I judge religions on whether they are pro or anti human