Does god want us to obey our goverments?

[richardlowellt]

Apparently, since the sin issue started here on earth and is still being resolved that indicates, at least for the moment, that there is not yet intelligent life on the other planets. Once Satan is destroyed (Hebrews 2:14b) and mankind is restored to the original human perfection that was enjoyed in the paradise Garden of Eden during Jesus thousand-year reign over earth, then new scrolls or books will be opened and more of God's purpose will be revealed.

I get the feeling there is not even any intelligent life on this planet! What other planets are you referring to? The one's in our solar system? What kind of warped religious reasoning drives you to the conclusion that Galaxies millions of light years away harbor no intelligent life?

I am already perfect, completely void of sin, I don't buy into that Adam crap, never happened, so why should I care if the "sin issue" is resolved?

 

[Valjean]

Clearly human history would have been a lot more pacific if people had placed individual moral principles above the commands of governments. "What if they gave a war and nobody came" could be more than a cute aphorism.

What is a government anyway but a street gang that's managed to secure a certain area of turf, exclude others and impose itself on the residents therein? Why should we feel any obligation to a street gang, even if it does perform some beneficial services to keep the people in line?

If I favor the policies of New Zealand or Denmark over those of the country I chanced to be born in, could I be considered a Kiwi or Dane? The "duty of allegiance" is, in my opinion, dangerous nonsense.

 

[BruceDLimber]

Greetings!

>Does God want us to obey our governments?

According to the Baha'i Faith, yes!

Peace,

Bruce

 

[Kerr]

Well does he?

Logically, if he exist and would, wouldn´t it depend on the government in question? I mean, there is a world of difference between what is in England then what was under Sovjet. Of course, I am an atheist and cannot claim to know anything about the subject, lol.

 

[Heneni]

Does God get what God wants? Has he already predetermined what is going to happen? Does God even get the kind of faith schools that he wants?

Beware the fury of a patient God. Jesus has prayers that have not been answered 2000 years after the fact. But it will be. Yes god gets what he wants. The moment god wills something it is. If god looks at something red and calls it blue, it will turn blue, or red will be blue from then on end.

To the extent god is a fiction designed to keep people in line, god wants us to obey the laws.

To the extent that barack obama is real, and wants you to obey the law, does that make him god then?

I didn't say that he doesn't care about this world or the people in it I just don't think that he cares about all the trivial things we do in this life. Why would he care about our political views? He may as well care about the brand of toilet paper we buy as well. I tend to think that God is rather indifferent to the silly things that humans get caught up in. He may care about our well being, but that doesn't equate to caring about our daily activities or temporary ideas/beliefs. Most of that is just our little illusions.

Yeh, god doesnt micromanage, and has given us free will to make everyday choices, but you can bet your life on it, he overrides that 'free will ' of yours without your permission or even without you knowing it whenever it suits him. You are in his universe afterall, here he is king of the castle, you and me, we get to visit.

 

[MSizer]

god said we had to listen to george bush. I don't really know why god wanted us to go blast the hell out of them iraqis, but apparently that's what he wanted. Who are we to think otherwise?

 

[Heneni]

god said we had to listen to george bush. I don't really know why god wanted us to go blast the hell out of them iraqis, but apparently that's what he wanted. Who are we to think otherwise?

Bush just said that so that the christians would support him. Had to say 'god' was behind it.

Funny how barack got all cosy with rick warren before the election, for voting purposes, and afterwards he declared the USA to not be a christian nation, and he kinda has gone against his 'religious' buddy at the time, rick warren , and has now come out in favor of homosexuality.

At least barack is smarter at politics.

 

[MSizer]

Bush just said that so that the christians would support him. Had to say 'god' was behind it.

I admit fully that I'm being very very picky here, and also admit that I'm probably twisting your words a bit, but I do have a bit of a problem with "Had to say 'god' was behind it". No he didn't have to say that at all (although I fully acknowldege you probably feel the same way - I'm just being picky, 'cuz it's a heated topic for me)

 

[Valjean]

So God wanted Tojo, Hitler and Roosevelt obeyed? He mandates loyalty to opposing governments and incompatable foreign policies?

This doesn't seem reasonable. I thought we were all God's creatures; all brothers.
Allegience to governments, it seems to me, promotes divisiveness. They're just street gangs writ large, after all.

Shouldn't we encourge loyalty to principles rather thn princes? Wouldn't a life guided by peace,fairness, compassion and co-operation be better for everyone than a life of enmity, insularity and unquestioning obedience?

 

[Heneni]

So God wanted Tojo, Hitler and Roosevelt obeyed? He mandates loyalty to opposing governments and incompatable foreign policies?

This doesn't seem reasonable. I thought we were all God's creatures; all brothers.
Allegience to governments, it seems to me, promotes divisiveness. They're just street gangs writ large, after all.

Shouldn't we encourge loyalty to principles rather thn princes? Wouldn't a life guided by peace,fairness, compassion and co-operation be better for everyone than a life of enmity, insularity and unquestioning obedience?

I agree. God gives the sword to the emporor to rule the people in a social setting. The emporor never has higher authority than god, and if he so wishes to ignore god in making policy then god removes the sword, and that goverment acts on its own. We are not told to obey illigitimate goverments. Not at all. But we are also told not to repay evil with evil. So we must submit to the penalty of disobeying a law if need be, but we cannot burn down buildings and riot because we disagree with the law of the evil emporor.

That is why the bible says we must pray for our leaders. God can make it so that the leaders are and remain god-fearing so that the children of god and the goverment can live in peace together.

Heneni

 

[Valjean]

I have no leaders

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I have no leaders

Isn't the idea of having no leader what Satan projected for himself and also wanted Adam and Eve to believe?

By disobeying God, Adam was taking the law into his own hands and set up people rule or self rule over God rule as the best way of living.
The conditions in the world today are showing the result of such independent rule, or the result of rejecting God as leader in order to direct or guide them by his morals, principles or standards.

 

[dogsgod]

Isn't the idea of having no leader what Satan projected for himself and also wanted Adam and Eve to believe?

By disobeying God, Adam was taking the law into his own hands and set up people rule or self rule over God rule as the best way of living.
The conditions in the world today are showing the result of such independent rule, or the result of rejecting God as leader in order to direct or guide them by his morals, principles or standards.

I see killing in the name of God more than any other, especially by political leaders.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Apparently, since the sin issue started here on earth and is still being resolved that indicates, at least for the moment, that there is not yet intelligent life on the other planets. Once Satan is destroyed (Hebrews 2:14b) and mankind is restored to the original human perfection that was enjoyed in the paradise Garden of Eden during Jesus thousand-year reign over earth, then new scrolls or books will be opened and more of God's purpose will be revealed.

I get the feeling there is not even any intelligent life on this planet! What other planets are you referring to? The one's in our solar system? What kind of warped religious reasoning drives you to the conclusion that Galaxies millions of light years away harbor no intelligent life?

I am already perfect, completely void of sin, I don't buy into that Adam crap, never happened, so why should I care if the "sin issue" is resolved?

Since perfect people do not die, then being perfect one would have already achieved everlasting life. However, if you do die then the 'sin issue' is why one should care.

If there was intelligent life elsewhere then there would already be faithful "Adam and Eves" so it could be pointed out to Satan that he already failed so then there would be no reason for Satan to involve us as implied by Job (2:3-5) that "a man" (us), or all of us, would be involved with the challenge.

 

[richardlowellt]

Since perfect people do not die, then being perfect one would have already achieved everlasting life. However, if you do die then the 'sin issue' is why one should care.

If there was intelligent life elsewhere then there would already be faithful "Adam and Eves" so it could be pointed out to Satan that he already failed so then there would be no reason for Satan to involve us as implied by Job (2:3-5) that "a man" (us), or all of us, would be involved with the challenge.

Of course perfect people die, it depends on who's definition of perfect you are using. Since I have no belief in a god thing perfect to me will be different that perfect to you.


I'm still trying to make any sense of your premise that intelligent life cannot exist anywhere in the cosmos because of adam and eve???????????? What the hell are you talking about?????? Do you think on a planet 200 million light years away there is an Adam and eve???? I don't mean to be rude but you have a very warped idea about how the world around you works, and those warped ideas seem to extent well into the cosmos.

 

[Sunstone]

God wants us to successfully rebel against any form of social organization that unnecessarily oppresses people. She told me so last night.

 

[te_lanus]

If there was intelligent life elsewhere then there would already be faithful "Adam and Eves" so it could be pointed out to Satan that he already failed so then there would be no reason for Satan to involve us as implied by Job (2:3-5) that "a man" (us), or all of us, would be involved with the challenge.

Remember that Adam and eve could be just a myth.

As for intelligent life in the universe, Why would God create a big Universe with more than a few trillion trillion stars with even more planets, if life was only possible and created on earth? It just doesn't make sense. And how can we who never left our close comfort of earth say there is no life if we didn't go there. And Remember that A few hundred years ago, according to the church at that time, with biblical proof, said that the earth was flat, with hell below and "Heaven" above. anyone who believed otherwise was burned at the stake as a heretic

 

[blackout]

I have no leaders

Ditto.

 

[Renji]

Well does he?

Depends on what kind of leaders are there in the government. For example, here in the Philippines, there are a lot of corrupt officials so some people does not really obey the government. God (I think) does not want evil to lead His people.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Depends on what kind of leaders are there in the government. For example, here in the Philippines, there are a lot of corrupt officials so some people does not really obey the government. God (I think) does not want evil to lead His people.

Hi Lawrence, the Philippines government is like all the others in this world, perhaps a different cultural form of corruption, but they are all corrupt. For that reason Jesus explained why the world hated him, the 'light' and 'truth' of his presence reveals the shadowy world of human pretentiousness for what it is, corruption. If you live in the same spiritual truth of God, then the world will hate you too (John 15:18-20), but one should still obey the law of the Government of the day.

Jesus never broke any of the laws of the Government of his day, for he taught that the Kingdom of Heaven is not of this world (John 18:36) and urged the people to seek the spiritual reality rather than the material shadow. This is more dangerous to the corrupt rulers of this world then mere rebellion against their corruption, for their 'lie' withers in the presence of 'Truth', whereas if it comes down to disobedience, the world's present rulers are masters for after all they have have disobeyed the on high, so the disobedience of citizens will never amount to any real change for their own betterment, but rather become like miry clay mixed with iron.

"No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and the world." Matthew 6:24