Does Hebraic Theology Make More Sense in a Hindu Context?

[wizanda]

In my opinion:

In Hinduism there is one ultimate manifestor of reality (Brahman), and then representatives that have been seen in physical form called Avatars (Shiva, Vishnu, Brahma, Krishna, etc).

According to a growing number of scholars, when we examine the earlier Biblical text, there was one God Most High, who divided the nations among the Elohim, and gave YHVH Elohim the nation of Israel as his people (Deuteronomy 32.8).

This then makes loads more sense of why the early Christian church accepted a concept of Yeshua Elohim being a son of the God Most High (El Elyon - Luke 1:32), and God Almighty (El Shaddai - Revelation 21:22).

In Revelation 4:4 there are 24 Elders sitting around the Throne of God Almighty, with the Lamb being one of them in Revelation 5:6.

These are thus similar to the 24 Elders/Avatars/Elohim, who have come here in different forms for us to understand the divine.

To me anything that is seen in a physical form is not the God Most High, which is like a CPU processing and creating reality; thus it is impossible for it to have walked with Adam, to have wrestled with Jacob (Israel), and to have eaten with Abraham.

There are scriptures that say YHVH Elohim is the one who created reality, and the Lord is One; this is similar to what Brahma did in terms of creating realities design, and how Krishna says the same thing in the Gita, that it is One God, yet it recognizes that Brahman is the ultimate formless source of reality.

So basically have the Jews after the Babylonian exile confused everyone with their concepts that Elohim can be seen both plural and singular depending on context, when really it was meaning Avatars all along?

This is my understanding of Oneness, God Most High/Brahman is One, the ultimate source of reality; with everything stemming from it, and the representatives recognize that the CPU is the source of all that exists.

In my opinion.

 

[Sunstone]

So basically have the Jews after the Babylonian exile confused everyone with their concepts that Elohim can be seen both plural and singular depending on context, when really it was meaning Avatars all along?

Those gosh darn Jews! They're always confusing everyone by telling us what their religion is. Gosh darn it!

 

[sayak83]

In my opinion:

In Hinduism there is one ultimate manifestor of reality (Brahman), and then representatives that have been seen in physical form called Avatars (Shiva, Vishnu, Brahma, Krishna, etc).

According to a growing number of scholars, when we examine the earlier Biblical text, there was one God Most High, who divided the nations among the Elohim, and gave YHVH Elohim the nation of Israel as his people (Deuteronomy 32.8).

This then makes loads more sense of why the early Christian church accepted a concept of Yeshua Elohim being a son of the God Most High (El Elyon - Luke 1:32), and God Almighty (El Shaddai - Revelation 21:22).

In Revelation 4:4 there are 24 Elders sitting around the Throne of God Almighty, with the Lamb being one of them in Revelation 5:6.

These are thus similar to the 24 Elders/Avatars/Elohim, who have come here in different forms for us to understand the divine.

To me anything that is seen in a physical form is not the God Most High, which is like a CPU processing and creating reality; thus it is impossible for it to have walked with Adam, to have wrestled with Jacob (Israel), and to have eaten with Abraham.

There are scriptures that say YHVH Elohim is the one who created reality, and the Lord is One; this is similar to what Brahma did in terms of creating realities design, and how Krishna says the same thing in the Gita, that it is One God, yet it recognizes that Brahman is the ultimate formless source of reality.

So basically have the Jews after the Babylonian exile confused everyone with their concepts that Elohim can be seen both plural and singular depending on context, when really it was meaning Avatars all along?

This is my understanding of Oneness, God Most High/Brahman is One, the ultimate source of reality; with everything stemming from it, and the representatives recognize that the CPU is the source of all that exists.

In my opinion.

When has your opinion ever made sense to humble mortals? Hindu or otherwise.

 

[DennisTate]

Fascinating..... I have read several sources that not only did Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus travel to India and even Nepal before beginning his ministry in the Roman Province of Judaea... but even his identical twin brother Doubting Thoams, Judas Didymus Thomas also travelled to India..... and was eventually martyred there.

http://www.thomastwin.com/6 A Thomas background.html

Page 224: "Then one night, as I was sitting by the road and doing my meditations, the inner voice of the Christ came to me again and said, “Thomas, you must now learn truth of what sages of the East have learned long ago. Have you not heard that there were wise men from the East at my birth, and that they knew of the plan which the Father has for His world? So also you can learn from the wisdom of the East. They have not the whole of the knowledge of the Father, but they have come closer than any, to the sort of knowledge which can lead to salvation.”


“You wonder why the Scriptures say that the Children of Israel are the chosen ones. The Father chose them to carry the burden and blessing of His Word, and they have carried part of His truth. But no one people has the whole truth, and no one nation can come to God. Rather, the Father has given it to many nations to strive, each on one part of the plan, that in the latter days of this age, all peoples, working together, might come finally to the Father and His love.” (Bruce Fraser MacDonald Ph. D., The Thomas Book, Near Death and a Quest for Another Gospel by the Twin Brother of Jesus).

In my opinion.... The Aquarian Gospel of Jesus the Christ by Levi Dowling is not quote on the same level as Bruce MacDonald Ph. D's book but......
it is certainly well written...........

CHAPTER 23

Jesus and Lamaas among the sudras and visyas. In Benares. Jesus becomes a pupil of Udraka. The lessons of Udraka. NOW, Jesus with his friend Lamaas went through all the regions of Orissa, and the valley of the Ganges, seeking wisdom from the sudras and the visyas and the masters. 2 Benares of the Ganges was a city rich in culture and in learning; here the two rabbonis tarried many days. 3 And Jesus sought to learn the Hindu art of healing, and became the pupil of Udraka, greatest of the Hindu healers. 4 Udraka taught the uses of the waters, plants and earths; of heat and cold; sunshine and shade; of light and dark. 5 He said, The laws of nature are the laws of health, and he who lives according to these laws is never sick. 6 Transgression of these laws is sin, and he who sins is sick. 7 He who obeys the laws, maintains an equilibrium in all his parts, and thus insures true harmony; and harmony is health, while discord is disease. 8 That which produces harmony in all the parts of man is medicine, insuring health. 9 The body is a harpsichord, and when its strings are too relaxed, or are too tense, the instrument is out of tune, the man is sick. 10 Now, everything in nature has been made to meet the wants of man; so everything is found in medical arcanes. 11 And when the harpsichord of man is out of tune the vast expanse of nature may be searched for remedy; there is a cure for every ailment of the flesh. 12 Of course the will of man is remedy supreme; and by the vigorous exercise of will, man way make tense a chord that is relaxed, or may relax one that is too tense, and thus may heal himself. 13 When man has reached the place where he has faith in God, in nature and himself, he knows the Word of power; his word is balm for every wound, is cure for all the ills of life. 14 The healer is the man who can inspire faith. The tongue may speak to human ears, but souls are reached by souls that speak to souls. 15 He is the forceful man whose soul is large, and who can enter into souls, inspiring hope in those who have no hope, and faith in those who have no faith in God, in nature, nor in man. 16 There is no universal balm for those who tread the common walks of life. 17 A thousand things produce inharmony and make men sick; a thousand things may tune the harpsichord, and make men well. 18 That which is medicine for one is poison for another one; so one is healed by what would kill another one. 19 An herb may heal the one; a drink of water may restore another one; a mountain breeze may bring to life one seeming past all help; 20 A coal of fire, or bit of earth, may cure another one; and one may wash in certain streams, or pools, and be made whole. 21 The virtue from the hand or breath may heal a thousand more; but love is queen. Thought, reinforced by love, is God's great sovereign balm. 22 But many of the broken chords in life, and discords that so vex the soul, are caused by evil spirits of the air that men see not; that lead men on through ignorance to break the laws of nature and of God. 23 These powers act like demons, and they speak; they rend the man; they drive him to despair. 24 But he who is a healer, true, is master of the soul, and can, by force of will, control these evil ones. 25 Some spirits of the air are master spirits and are strong, too strong for human power alone; but man has helpers in the higher realms that may be importuned, and they will help to drive the demons out. 26 Of what this great physician said, this is the sum. And Jesus bowed his head in recognition of the wisdom of this master soul, and went his way." (The Aquarian Gospel of Jesus the Christ by Levi Dowling)
The Aquarian Age Gospel of Jesus, the Christ of the Piscean Age

 

[shunyadragon]

In my opinion:

In Hinduism there is one ultimate manifestor of reality (Brahman), and then representatives that have been seen in physical form called Avatars (Shiva, Vishnu, Brahma, Krishna, etc).

According to a growing number of scholars, when we examine the earlier Biblical text, there was one God Most High, who divided the nations among the Elohim, and gave YHVH Elohim the nation of Israel as his people (Deuteronomy 32.8).

This then makes loads more sense of why the early Christian church accepted a concept of Yeshua Elohim being a son of the God Most High (El Elyon - Luke 1:32), and God Almighty (El Shaddai - Revelation 21:22).

In Revelation 4:4 there are 24 Elders sitting around the Throne of God Almighty, with the Lamb being one of them in Revelation 5:6.

These are thus similar to the 24 Elders/Avatars/Elohim, who have come here in different forms for us to understand the divine.

To me anything that is seen in a physical form is not the God Most High, which is like a CPU processing and creating reality; thus it is impossible for it to have walked with Adam, to have wrestled with Jacob (Israel), and to have eaten with Abraham.

There are scriptures that say YHVH Elohim is the one who created reality, and the Lord is One; this is similar to what Brahma did in terms of creating realities design, and how Krishna says the same thing in the Gita, that it is One God, yet it recognizes that Brahman is the ultimate formless source of reality.

So basically have the Jews after the Babylonian exile confused everyone with their concepts that Elohim can be seen both plural and singular depending on context, when really it was meaning Avatars all along?

This is my understanding of Oneness, God Most High/Brahman is One, the ultimate source of reality; with everything stemming from it, and the representatives recognize that the CPU is the source of all that exists.

In my opinion.

The Bold above fits the description of God in the Baha'i Faith, and not Hinduism. If God is truly Monotheistic and Universal to all cultures and peoples in the history of humanity, the Baha'i Faith makes more sense taking into consideration of the overlay of culture defining God(s) or God from different human perspectives. I believe that the individual ancient religions are cloaked in cultural trappings, and made God(s) in their own cultural identity.

The alternatives are kind of awkward if God or God(s) exist as described in the diversity of religions. You than have a pantheon of Gods in the heavens represented in different cultures, and invisible to anyone on earth throughout history.

A viable alternative is the Humanist alternative that religions and God(s) evolved as cultural Creations of human imagination trying to explain unknowns and the natural desire of immortality.

Judaism has embraced strict Monotheism of an unknowable God, and Hinduism has not. Ancient Judaism of the Pentateuch did have a hierarchy of Gods (shared by Ugarit, Canaanite, Babylonian), but fortunately Monotheism won out in the end.

 

[sayak83]

The Bold above fits the description of God in the Baha'i Faith, and not Hinduism. If God is truly Monotheistic and Universal to all cultures and peoples in the history of humanity, the Baha'i Faith makes more sense taking into consideration of the overlay of culture defining God(s) or God from different human perspectives. I believe that the individual ancient religions are cloaked in cultural trappings, and made God(s) in their own cultural identity.

The alternatives are kind of awkward if God or God(s) exist as described in the diversity of religions. You than have a pantheon of Gods in the heavens represented in different cultures, and invisible to anyone on earth throughout history.

A viable alternative is the Humanist alternative that religions and God(s) evolved as cultural Creations of human imagination trying to explain unknowns and the natural desire of immortality.

Judaism has embraced strict Monotheism of an unknowable God, and Hinduism has not. Ancient Judaism of the Pentateuch did have a hierarchy of Gods (shared by Ugarit, Canaanite, Babylonian), but fortunately Monotheism won out in the end.

Respectfully, I don't think you understand Hinduism very well.

 

[Brickjectivity]

There are a lot of seeming similarities between Jesus and Krishna. Both born December 25. Both have virgin mothers. There is a long list. I do not think this makes them the same, but its not like there are no similarities. There certainly are.

Similarities between two god-men saviors: Jesus and Krishna

 

[sayak83]

There are a lot of seeming similarities between Jesus and Krishna. Both born December 25. Both have virgin mothers. There is a long list. I do not think this makes them the same, but its not like there are no similarities. There certainly are.

Similarities between two god-men saviors: Jesus and Krishna

There are a lot of seeming similarities between Jesus and Krishna. Both born December 25. Both have virgin mothers. There is a long list. I do not think this makes them the same, but its not like there are no similarities. There certainly are.

Similarities between two god-men saviors: Jesus and Krishna

Nonsense. Krishna's birth follows the lunar calendar, but falls invariably in the middle of August. Krishna's mother had 7 children before him with her husband etc. At least read wiki for a cursory fact check.

 

[Nyingjé Tso]

Vanakkam

Those who aren't Hindus, never talked to any Hindu or set a foot in a temple...

They sure love to lecture us about what our religion truly is, originate from and means.

Hardly surprising now, yet still intriguing

Aum namah Shivaya

 

[shunyadragon]

Respectfully, I don't think you understand Hinduism very well.

Respectfully you are approaching this from a very biased perspective.

You need to be more specific.

 

[shunyadragon]

Vanakkam

Those who aren't Hindus, never talked to any Hindu or set a foot in a temple...

They sure love to lecture us about what our religion truly is, originate from and means.

Hardly surprising now, yet still intriguing

Aum namah Shivaya

I personally have been to many Hindu Temples in India and the USA and talked to Hindus over the past 50 years or more.

 

[Brickjectivity]

Nonsense. Krishna's birth follows the lunar calendar, but falls invariably in the middle of August. Krishna's mother had 7 children before him with her husband etc. At least read wiki for a cursory fact check.

Thanks for that information. I am just going by the page on tolerance.org. I apologize for repeating it without being more knowledgeable.

How about this? You drive a hard bargain, but I am ready to deal. If you will compromise a tiny bit I will move Jesus birthday to August!

 

[Sunstone]

I have known in my lifetime both a Hindu and a Jew (the Hindu was a waiter in a restaurant I worked in for three months, and the Jew lived down the street from me for fully six months -- we were on nodding terms when passing each other on the sidewalk), which I staunchly believe eminently qualifies me to authoritatively speak of their religions! I now humbly await any and all questions about either Hinduism or Judaism, which I will answer with an authority only lesser to that of the gods -- or of the author of the OP (whichever comes lower). I am at your service!

 

[sayak83]

I personally have been to many Hindu Temples in India and the USA and talked to Hindus over the past 50 years or more.

Excellent. Then how precisely does the Hindu concept of Brahman have the limitations you mentioned?

 

[John D. Brey]

In my opinion:

In Hinduism there is one ultimate manifestor of reality (Brahman), and then representatives that have been seen in physical form called Avatars (Shiva, Vishnu, Brahma, Krishna, etc).

According to a growing number of scholars, when we examine the earlier Biblical text, there was one God Most High, who divided the nations among the Elohim, and gave YHVH Elohim the nation of Israel as his people (Deuteronomy 32.8).

This then makes loads more sense of why the early Christian church accepted a concept of Yeshua Elohim being a son of the God Most High (El Elyon - Luke 1:32), and God Almighty (El Shaddai - Revelation 21:22).

In Revelation 4:4 there are 24 Elders sitting around the Throne of God Almighty, with the Lamb being one of them in Revelation 5:6.

These are thus similar to the 24 Elders/Avatars/Elohim, who have come here in different forms for us to understand the divine.

To me anything that is seen in a physical form is not the God Most High, which is like a CPU processing and creating reality; thus it is impossible for it to have walked with Adam, to have wrestled with Jacob (Israel), and to have eaten with Abraham.

There are scriptures that say YHVH Elohim is the one who created reality, and the Lord is One; this is similar to what Brahma did in terms of creating realities design, and how Krishna says the same thing in the Gita, that it is One God, yet it recognizes that Brahman is the ultimate formless source of reality.

So basically have the Jews after the Babylonian exile confused everyone with their concepts that Elohim can be seen both plural and singular depending on context, when really it was meaning Avatars all along?

This is my understanding of Oneness, God Most High/Brahman is One, the ultimate source of reality; with everything stemming from it, and the representatives recognize that the CPU is the source of all that exists.

In my opinion.

Hebrew theology makes sense in a Hindu context prior to, and if we ignore, Paul's "Mystery" interpretation of Hebrew theology, which we find most explicitly in Colossians 1:15-20. ------Paul claims Christ is the fullness of invisible deity in bodily form and that only because this truth was hidden in the "beginning" בראשית does the non-Christian Jew not "see" this great revelation (even in the Hebrew text).

The first Hebrew word in the Torah is bere**** בראשית. But the word creates a problem since its in the construct state so that it requires a noun to follow it rather than the verb bara ברא. -----This is a giant problem for those who don't want to see Paul's Mystery teaching since correctly interpreted "elohim" (the third word in the Torah בראשית ברא אלהים isn't the creator, but part of what's being created. The actual creator is hidden in the first word, "beginning" בראשית.

The standard interpretation of the first sentence in the Bible is bollixed up to keep the creator "hidden."

"Elohim," translated "God," and misinterpolated as the creator, is part of (rather than the source of) the creation in a correct interpretation of the Hebrew letters. ------ So who's the creator in a correct interpretation of the Hebrew text? ------Paul's answer to that question has got to be one of the coolest and most amazing interpretations of the hieroglyphic depth of a Hebrew word (bere****) that has ever occurred in the work of any Jewish sage.

Beginning is symbolized by beit, but before beit is alef, the mystery, pele, that points to the origin that precedes the beginning. The first, which is the head, is shrouded in the veil of the second, the twofold nature of secrecy that lies at the . . . root. . . In proclaiming its primordiality, Torah is asserting, albeit cryptically, that it conceals the "matter that must be hidden from the entire world," which is the head, the illimitable origin, whence it springs forth.

Professor Elliot R. Wolfson, Alef, Beit, Tav, preface xiii, page 126.​

Paul claims the "matter that must be hidden from the entire world," has been revealed, and that one Greek word is the key, par excellent, to the first Hebrew word in the Torah: πρωτότοκος.


John

 

[wizanda]

Those gosh darn Jews! They're always confusing everyone by telling us what their religion is.

In my opinion:

If we study the Hebraic texts, we can see that something has gone wrong with their understanding after the Babylonian exile; this is why stated scholars, such as Dr Margaret Barker, Thom Stark, etc, have also come to similar conclusions based on the context we find.

Rabbinic Jews might be able to relate some of their modern version of the religion; yet textual analysis shows this to be flawed in places, and therefore it is being re-questioned.

Religious understanding evolves over time, and personally like to question for myself; not be told how to understand something, especially when we find flaws in logic, and context.

By all means since it is a religious debate forum, would be happy to debate contexts, and reasons for the modern comprehension.... Personally learn from debate, and thus why started the question in the first place.

When has your opinion ever made sense to humble mortals?

That is a good question, which is why i've come back from Heaven to help question these points, and see if we can come to a consensus before Satya Yuga.

The Bold above fits the description of God in the Baha'i Faith, and not Hinduism.

Wrote that from more of a Hindu perspective first, and then applied that over the Hebraic... So would think it fitted with Hinduism first, have you read the Gita, etc?

Judaism has embraced strict Monotheism of an unknowable God, and Hinduism has not.

If Yehoshua (Lord that saves) is their Avatar/Elohim, and is a form of Yah-Havah (Lord to be)...

Then it is quite knowable; what has been imposed by religious believers is what makes it obscure, not the actual text.

It is true, they applied a stricter monotheism after the Babylonian exile; yet to say that Hinduism has a knowable God isn't what the text says:

BG 12.3-4: But those who worship the formless aspect of the Absolute Truth—the imperishable, the indefinable, the unmanifest, the all-pervading, the unthinkable, the unchanging, the eternal, and the immoveable—by restraining their senses and being even-minded everywhere, such persons, engaged in the welfare of all beings, also attain me.

Avatars are representatives to make the unknowable formless Brahman, knowable in a physical form, and then the question of the thread, is does the Bible do the same thing, that El Elyon (God Most High), has representatives in the forms of YHVH and Yeshua.

There are a lot of seeming similarities between Jesus and Krishna.

Personally see Yeshua as a form of Shiva, Lord of the Dance, who brought destruction, and will bring renewal of reality...

The projection from Shiva's third eye (Yantra) is the Star of David, and Shiva's son I see as being Yeshua, who will remove the demon of salvation.

+ loads more.

Those who aren't Hindus, never talked to any Hindu or set a foot in a temple.

Personally do not go on what people say within the Maya, prefer to deal with the sources of religious understanding....

Plus setting foot in a temple, is very limited in comparison to being an Avatar who has seen Heaven within this incarnation.

They sure love to lecture

This is a religious debate forum, where we're here to question things, and scrutinize meanings....

Personally love advanced Satsang with people who have enough faith, to actually represent what is within their source material, it shows that they've understood it.

which I will answer with an authority only lesser to that of the gods -- or of the author of the OP

By all means if you're capable of posting sources, that are justified within the religious texts, then would be happy to meet another who can question the understandings down here in the Maya.

Do you understand that in both Hindu texts, and Hebraic text here is a realm populated by those who've not ascended, that Maya meaning illusion, is often put as us all being delusional in someway...

Thus asking religious groups for the meaning of their text, is likely to lead to confusion; which is why there are so many internal religious debates in each...

Having spent my life studying many religious texts, was looking for an online place to meet intellectual minds who've made the effort to understand it all.

if we ignore, Paul's "Mystery" interpretation of Hebrew theology

Thank you for a very well articulated post, hadn't heard any of that before...

Personally find Paul contradictory to Yeshua, where he is trying to make things fit, yet it doesn't fit with the prophetic contexts.

In my opinion.

 

[idav]

Those gosh darn Jews! They're always confusing everyone by telling us what their religion is. Gosh darn it!

I keep hearing this Judaism know about their own sacred texts and traditions.

 

[wizanda]

I keep hearing this Judaism know about their own sacred texts and traditions.

Unfortunately with religious presuppositions these don't always need to be based on logic, and thus it is possible to show flaws between what the sacred text actually says, and what a tradition believes.

Isaiah 29:9-14 WEB Pause and wonder! Blind yourselves and be blind! They are drunken, but not with wine; they stagger, but not with strong drink. (10) For Yahweh has poured out on you a spirit of deep sleep, and has closed your eyes, the prophets; and he has covered your heads, the seers. (11) All vision has become to you like the words of a book that is sealed, which men deliver to one who is educated, saying, “Read this, please;” and he says, “I can’t, for it is sealed;” (12) and the book is delivered to one who is not educated, saying, “Read this, please;” and he says, “I can’t read.” (13) The Lord said, “Because this people draws near with their mouth and honors me with their lips, but they have removed their heart far from me, and their fear of me is a commandment of men which has been taught; (Matthew 15:7-9) (14) therefore, behold, I will proceed to do a marvelous work among this people, even a marvelous work and a wonder; and the wisdom of their wise men will perish, and the understanding of their prudent men will be hidden.”

In my opinion.

 

[Flankerl]

Let me tell you about Judaism/the Jews #4649687

In my opinion.

 

[wizanda]

Let me tell you about Judaism/the Jews

Not trying to tell anyone about Rabbinic Judaism; just a question on the differences in the early Hebraic theological understanding, when compared to global religions.

Personally find it fascinating how psyche, nephesh,, atman, all have the same root breath, and mean self, soul, life... Thus question if earlier religious cultures had more union in ideas than we do today.

In my opinion.