Does Hinduism acknowledge Jesus as an Avatar?

[Kalidas]

@Vinayaka:

I am going to call the SRF sometime this week and talk to them about whether or not they consider themselves Hindu, and I will address concerns that some Hindu's do not think they are a Hindu organization.. I am curious to what they have to say and I will get back to you guys on this.



I'm glad you respect the seriousness and sincerity of my "seeking"...I have not come here with an agenda, I come to the RF to learn and further expand my mind throughout my journey. I am starting to get a better understanding of your perspective based off of this post. So correct me if I'm wrong but this is what I'm getting out of your post:

Jesus is very much the main symbol of Institutional Christianity, for Jesus symbolically stands for all the values and teachings of Christianity, etc. And Jesus, as a symbol, literally has no place in Institutional Hinduism. This makes sense to me, I get this.. but where I am still confused I guess, is that from my perspective: although Jesus as a symbol has no place within Institutional Hinduism, I believe that many of the things Jesus, as a symbol, points too, have counterparts within Hinduism. Am I wrong for saying this? As for your example, I would say that Ganesha and Kali Maa, as symbols, have no place within Organizational/Institutional Judaism... however, I would be very open to the possibility that certain things that Genesha and Kali Maa symbolically point to, may indeed have analogous counterparts within my Judaism. Any whether or not it is futile or wrong to point out, dwell upon and discuss such commonalities seems to me a topic for a different discussion.

I can agree to that. But what a lot of people will say is why look to Jesus for ideas that are already present in Hinduism? Jesus taught to help the poor and the sick, so does Hinduism so why the nees for Jesus if the idea is already present? Not to be rude just pointing it out.

 

[Vinayaka]

I can agree to that. But what a lot of people will say is why look to Jesus for ideas that are already present in Hinduism? Jesus taught to help the poor and the sick, so does Hinduism so why the nees for Jesus if the idea is already present? Not to be rude just pointing it out.

We have no need for the little toe, either, but it's pretty hard to shake loose of that thing. In essence, that is why. Conditioning.

 

[Satyamavejayanti]

=punkdbass;3640053]I notice there is some slight tension in me being here in the Hindu DIR because lately I have been studying a lot of Yogananda's teachings and his organization does view Jesus as a legitimate Avatar of God. I have not made up my mind yet on how I view Jesus, but right now I do see a lot of teachings of Yoga within his teachings.. it's hard for me to overlook this.

I don't think there is any tension of you posting here, well not from me anyways. And you would have already picked up that in Hinduism we don't have one central authority governing our philosophy, we don't have one temple that sends orders and we don't have one purohita that all other pundits answer to. This makes ideas of one philosopher e.g; yogananda, his own interpretation and his own idea of the texts he is referring to (i think the Gita), and his idea would then be influenced by the audience that he is trying to attract in this case Christians or people who view Jesus as the savior, and it leads to him proclaiming the "Avtarhood", of Jesus, maybe to reconcile the vast difference of philosophy of Hinduism with Christianity. But this is just my limited understanding of Yogananda and his followers, don't quote me on this.

And as for the teachings of Yoga in the teachings of Jesus, as im not familiar too much with the teachings of Jesus, what in his teachings would you consider as Yoga?

And Since we are comparing Yoga, is this definitions of Yoga as mentioned in the Yoga sutras compatible with the teachings of Christianity.

See below from Yoga Sutras.

Now, Instruction in Yoga
1.1 Yoga is containment of the ways of thought. 1.2 Then, rather than
being identified with those ways, there is abiding of the witness in his own
form. 1.3 Not abiding in one's form is the opposite (of union), understanding
wrongly

And is this Sutra regarding karma is it reflective of the teachings of Christ.

4.1 Those to be abandoned through meditation (however) are the ways (of thought) corresponding to them, 4.2 that (way) which is expressed by a life, known or unknown (present or past), the seat of karma, which is the root of afflictions; 4.3 birth rank, health, and enjoyment of life, which are the fruition of that (karma), being according to the presence of their root.

I am not really interested in lay Hindu's opinions of whether or not Jesus is an Avatar, rather I'm hoping that you guys can point me to scholarship of Hindu scholars (books, talks or essays?) who've actually deeply studied the NT and Christianity and have either arrived at the conclusions that Jesus is or is not an Avatar. I would love to hear their arguments, and I'd love to hear your guys thoughts here as well.. but to simply say "Jesus is not an Avatar or associated with Hinduism, period" - as some people have done here... is not satisfying enough to me. I want to learn why Hinduism does or does not view Jesus as a living embodiment of dharma or God... rather than just accept blindly that he is not.

Well there are a couple of names that come to mind, one is Maharishi Swami Dayananda Saraswati in his Satyarth Prakasha (the light of truth, has studied the OT and NT from memory) and concluded not only that Jesus is not and Avtar but that Christianity is a false religion, and there is critical study by H. H. Chattambi Swamikal in his Kristumata-Chedanam and in his chapter on "life of Christ", the first sentence is " We shall now demonstrate that Jesus Christ also does not possess divinity at all". So there is a couple of Hindu views on the issue dating from the past 100 years or so.

Coming to the more specific point, where is Jesus mentioned as one of the Avtars of Vishnu in any Hindu scriptures?

 

[LuisDantas]

We have no need for the little toe, either, but it's pretty hard to shake loose of that thing. In essence, that is why. Conditioning.

Generally speaking, there are often powerful reasons both for attempting to conciliate core teachings with regional beliefs and for attempting to point out that they are, in fact, different beliefs.

Not taking a side here, and in fact I do not think a general stance is the wisest choice to make. Circunstances matter in this situation.

 

[Vinayaka]

Generally speaking, there are often powerful reasons both for attempting to conciliate core teachings with regional beliefs and for attempting to point out that they are, in fact, different beliefs.

Not taking a side here, and in fact I do not think a general stance is the wisest choice to make. Circunstances matter in this situation.

Circumstances always matter. One might say God gives us the lessons we can handle.

 

[Kalidas]

We have no need for the little toe, either, but it's pretty hard to shake loose of that thing. In essence, that is why. Conditioning.

And I think the reason to not wanting to remove both is the same, it will hurt.

 

[Vinayaka]

And I think the reason to not wanting to remove both is the same, it will hurt.

Indeed. Still, sometimes there is short term pain for long term gain.

 

[Kalidas]

Indeed. Still, sometimes there is short term pain for long term gain.

I'm not chopping off my small toe Vinayaka stop trying to convince me!

 

[punkdbass]

It makes no difference to me at all whether or not there are common underlying principles. (For me, Hinduism provides me with too much sadhana already.)

And I'm sure this is fine for you.. although I hardly know you, you strike me as a pretty spiritual person who has/is going to do a lot of good in the world.. but imagine for a moment, if every single person in the world had the attitude of not caring whatsoever about "common underlying principles?" Imagine what sort of world that would be like if literally every single person felt this way. I don't know about you, but the ideal world where every human being is entitled to inalienable rights and the pursuit of happiness sure doesnt come to mind to me.

And I must say that of the 3 Abrahamic faiths, Judaism does seem closer to Hinduism than the other two. There used to be a Jewish-Hindu specific interfaith group

I have yet to really study Islam but I could see why you might think this. The core Jewish belief - the Shema, is that God (Ultimate Reality) is one.. Everything is God, everything is connected and interdependent, that everything is God etc. This is literally the forefront of Judaism IMO.

I can agree to that. But what a lot of people will say is why look to Jesus for ideas that are already present in Hinduism? Jesus taught to help the poor and the sick, so does Hinduism so why the nees for Jesus if the idea is already present? Not to be rude just pointing it out.

There is no need for Jesus to someone living a full Hindu, Jewish, or Muslim life.. but in our world today, there is still a lot of disunity, strife, conflict, war etc between people of different faiths.. and in this respect, I think there very much is a need and value to discussing and dwelling upon commonalities. Sure you might not need them, but to the enraged fundamentalist who negatively reacts to anyone outside his faith.. perhaps the discussion upon such commonalities might do some good. But as LuisDantas pointed out, there needs to be balance.. being a fundamentalist Universalistic (literally trying to draw connections in EVERY single thing possible) probably isn't any better than being a fundamentalist of any other religion lol.. I hope you guys don't think of me this way

 

[Contemplative Cat]

Isn't purist religion kind of shallow. Isn't the genuine God more important than defining religious sects that all essentially pray to the same God.

To say you "don't care" is to worship Hinduism instead of God.

This is why gurus are supposed teach Hinduism, they actually are in union with God instead of just following the Scriptures with are often riddled in mystery.
Only some one who knows, without the need for "faith", a yogi can really explain the eternal religion, often called Hinduism.

 

[Vinayaka]

And I'm sure this is fine for you.. although I hardly know you, you strike me as a pretty spiritual person who has/is going to do a lot of good in the world.. but imagine for a moment, if every single person in the world had the attitude of not caring whatsoever about "common underlying principles?"

I come from a non-philosophical school. (It's devotional and richly mystical, primarily, although philosophy does play a role) I thought you were referring to commonality in philosophy. That I don't see.

What I do see is commonality in being human, in caring for our human brothers, in tolerance, in non-violence, in laughter, in simple things. We are on the planet together, after all. That I deeply care about. But philosophy ... nah. You have yours, I have mine.

Of course, another reason I don't go there is it burdens the mind, from my POV. The intellect is a barrier to intuition, to mysticism, as after awhile we spend way too much time thinking , and not enough not thinking, but just enjoying the moment for what it is. You know the type .. misses the scenery, missed the smell of roses, way too knotted up in intellectual discussion. So I don't read much. Not only does if not interest me, but its also a side track on the Sanatana Dharma path to God.

 

[Vinayaka]

pray to the same God.

Do they? (I honestly don't know, but some days it sure seems like they don't.)

 

[Contemplative Cat]

Do they? (I honestly don't know, but some days it sure seems like they don't.)

It depends
if God means Brahman then yes they do
If god means a deity then no they don't.

 

[Contemplative Cat]

Sorry I don't mean to sound so sure of me

 

[punkdbass]

I come from a non-philosophical school. (It's devotional and richly mystical, primarily, although philosophy does play a role) I thought you were referring to commonality in philosophy. That I don't see.

What I do see is commonality in being human, in caring for our human brothers, in tolerance, in non-violence, in laughter, in simple things. We are on the planet together, after all. That I deeply care about. But philosophy ... nah. You have yours, I have mine.

Of course, another reason I don't go there is it burdens the mind, from my POV. The intellect is a barrier to intuition, to mysticism, as after awhile we spend way too much time thinking , and not enough not thinking, but just enjoying the moment for what it is. You know the type .. misses the scenery, missed the smell of roses, way too knotted up in intellectual discussion. So I don't read much. Not only does if not interest me, but its also a side track on the Sanatana Dharma path to God.

Fair enough, I can agree with this in a sense. I can definitely relate to the "being mentally overburdened" - sometimes I'm too caught up thinking and analyzing things, trying to find the connections in everything that I sort of miss the simple things, the scenery, the real connections.

Contrary to what some of you may have thought, I've gotten a lot of great, helpful answers in this thread.. I think the discussion has been rather fruitful I know most of you have probably seen threads like this countless times but I have not lol

Namaste

 

[Vinayaka]

It depends
if God means Brahman then yes they do
If god means a deity then no they don't.

Then they don't because western religions have never heard of Brahman. (Not counting the few extremely mystical and rare subschools.)

Siva has 3 perfections in my school.

 

[Kalidas]

Then they don't because western religions have never heard of Brahman. (Not counting the few extremely mystical and rare subschools.)

Siva has 3 perfections in my school.

Brahman, yaweh, jehova, Allah, the great spirit, etc etc these are just names to apply to the same concept. The differences come in theology and philosophy.

 

[Vinayaka]

Brahman, yaweh, jehova, Allah, the great spirit, etc etc these are just names to apply to the same concept. The differences come in theology and philosophy.

Really? I did not know this. It would be such a boring study. When did you do an in-depth study of the nature of God in all of these philosophical systems?

I once had a discussion on the nature of God with a certain person of a certain Abrahamic faith, and he nearly punched me out for being blasphemous. So clearly he disagreed with me, unless he had some anger issues that I didn't know about.

 

[Kalidas]

Really? I did not know this. It would be such a boring study. When did you do an in-depth study of the nature of God in all of these philosophical systems?

I once had a discussion on the nature of God with a certain person of a certain Abrahamic faith, and he nearly punched me out for being blasphemous. So clearly he disagreed with me, unless he had some anger issues that I didn't know about.

I'm just saying I believe there is one divine power and everyone does in fact worship it. I never said all ideas about this divinity is correct. The idea of eternal Hell seems incorrect to me. But that doesnt mean it isn't the same God. Besides you proved my point really you both had different theological ideas. At worse absolute worse the Christian idea of God is a deity.

 

[Fireside_Hindu]

I think there's a difference between discussing whether Jesus the person is acknowledged in Hinduism and whether his general philosophy is acknowledged.

Love thy neighbor - no Hindu would argue with that, however that same Hindu isn't going to put Jesus in the family shrine. Why? Because that same theory already exists in Hinduism. Therefore, Jesus is redundant.

If there are so many commonalities between world faiths (And there are) why bother with names anyway? Because beyond the fundamental level, there are deep differences - differences that may seem cosmetic, but which inform an individual on the best way for the to go about 'being". It will be different for everyone.

Why does Jesus have to be acknowledged in Hinduism to validate his teachings? Shouldn't a Christian practitioner have enough faith in their path to let him stand on his own?

:camp: